Quote from: The Butcher;940126> Notoriously racist murderer and arsonist scumbag writes RPG
> RPG is widely reported to feature blatantly racist content
> OP's "curiosity" is piqued, goes and buys the game

Yeah, business as usual, nothing fishy here.

When the Butcher and I am in total agreement, you know something is seriously fucked up.

Quote from: AsenRG;940129Well, you can also look at it from the other side.

Members of a forum known for overreacting on rights issues call for a boycott/ban of a book because racism.
OP's curiosity is piqued, goes and buys book to see if they're overreacting yet again.
OP finds he likes it and plays it.

Yeah, nothing fishy in that chain. And this is the chain the OP narrated.

Except that the game in question really is a racist piece of shit.

Quote from: RPGPundit;941712Except that the game in question really is a racist piece of shit.

But given the habit of some people to freak out over what amounts to details, how would anyone know that unless he decides to check for himself:)?
I know I've backed games I wouldn't otherwise look at just as a "fuck you" to some people. I'm still wondering whether I shouldn't get the Gor RPG when it comes out, for this very reason;).

And once you've paid the money, well, you might as well try and salvage the game, especially if you like the system otherwise, say, because you like lethal combat. That's not always possible with some systems, but it looks like MyFrog could be salvaged.
Hence, I'm choosing to give the OP the benefit of doubt here.

Quote from: AsenRG;941721But given the habit of some people to freak out over what amounts to details, how would anyone know that unless he decides to check for himself:)?
I know I've backed games I wouldn't otherwise look at just as a "fuck you" to some people. I'm still wondering whether I shouldn't get the Gor RPG when it comes out, for this very reason;).

And once you've paid the money, well, you might as well try and salvage the game, especially if you like the system otherwise, say, because you like lethal combat. That's not always possible with some systems, but it looks like MyFrog could be salvaged.
Hence, I'm choosing to give the OP the benefit of doubt here.

In the last game session I played in, one of the PCs has a character flaw of Selflessness and when the dilemma of one of the characters having to sacrifice himself for the whole group to survive.  My character has the opposite flaw, Selfishness, and so I played him the opposite way.  I was planning on killing the NPC that suggested the sacrifice.  

The game system provided for that, and unintentionally so. It was shear coincidence that we had the flaws that we had, and we had never played together before, nor planned ahead of time which characters to play.

Those that claim the game is a shit system, fall into one of three categories:

1.  They have played it and acceptably don't like it for their taste.

2.  They have played it, but in its first edition iteration.

3.  They have not played it and are basing their opinion on what others have said.  

Of the three, the first is the most legitimate.  The third is of course the mark of a weak minded or willed person, and I have pity for such weakness I never accept the opinion of another without first investigating, at least superficially, for myself.  If the game system is cheap enough, and this one certainly was, then I'll even buy it to do a full investigation.

On another note, I just got my copy of The Ice Kingdoms Campaign Setting by CS Barnhart, Chris Lites and James M. Ward.  I'm looking forward to adapting that setting to either D&D 5E or possibly D&D Basic Rules set.

Quote from: Bluddworth;941813The third is of course the mark of a weak minded or willed person, and I have pity for such weakness I never accept the opinion of another without first investigating, at least superficially, for myself.  If the game system is cheap enough, and this one certainly was, then I'll even buy it to do a full investigation.

That's about what I suspected, given your posts;).

Quote from: AsenRG;941816That's about what I suspected, given your posts;).

What I like most about the game system is the brutality of it, and its newest supplement just added a Critical Injuries system that is even more so.  Watch the YouTube review of The Coming for 2.6 edition, the character ended up with paralysis from the neck down, due to a critical injury.  

When I play MYFAROG I don't expect my character to survive, compare that to D&D (any edition) and you can reasonably expect to play a character forever.  

Also, there is a revised Mental Health System where the character can become permanently insane due to suffering frequent mental health loss, or a one time devasting traumatic experience.  This of course reminds me of Call of Cthulhu, and one of the most unique systems in that game.

I was hoping that REH's Conan RPG would be this brutal, but like MYFAROG, I can modify it to my own campaign's settings.

Quote from: Bluddworth;941813Those that claim the game is a shit system, fall into one of three categories:

1.  They have played it and acceptably don't like it for their taste.

2.  They have played it, but in its first edition iteration.

3.  They have not played it and are basing their opinion on what others have said.  

Of the three, the first is the most legitimate.  The third is of course the mark of a weak minded or willed person, and I have pity for such weakness I never accept the opinion of another without first investigating, at least superficially, for myself.  If the game system is cheap enough, and this one certainly was, then I'll even buy it to do a full investigation.

You claim it isn'ta shit system. Reviewers who have read the game have stated it is, and provided convincing examples to back up their claim. And in this case the onus is not just to prove the system is in someway worthwhile, but that its such an extraordinary game that it makes it worth it for one to put aside the White Nationalist creed of the awful waste of human flesh of a creator that informs the setting of the game.

So far your example does not distinguish the game in any way from hundreds of other game systems. So what makes the game unique? What makes it worthwhile as a system above and beyond the myriad of choices available that don't have any ties to bigotry?

Tristram,

Read my previous post, and you will see what I believe is unique.  But besides that, I have many RPGs that I simply have to read and have little or no intentions of playing.  As I've written, several times, I read core rules of RPGs much like I read fantasy or Sci FI novels.  I enjoy reading them, and so they don't require multiple unique systems.  

As I've also written, in my three categories of review, I think many of the critics are basing what they have read on the first edition of the game.  I think it is fairly obvious that the first edition was very clunky.  The edition cycle this far: 1.0, 2.0, 2.4, 2.5 and now 2.6.  So there have been at least 4 "improvements" made to the game's systems.  

You seem to fall within the category of those willing to accept the review of a few, who likely did not actually play the game nor are familiar with the newest edition of the game.

I'd suggest watching the reviews of the people actually playing the game.  There are plenty of YouTube videos of actual game play.... And none are as numbers crunchy as first edition.

Although I will say this, I did use the weather / wind tables to determine their effects on a sea travel segment of my adventure and the tables actually came in handy and directed some of the story I was crafting.

Quote from: Bluddworth;941837Tristram,

Read my previous post, and you will see what I believe is unique.

All you mentioned was that the game includes "weaknesses". Thats so far from unique that I have to wonder if you've ever seen an RPG besides D&D

QuoteYou seem to fall within the category of those willing to accept the review of a few, who likely did not actually play the game nor are familiar with the newest edition of the game.

"Accept" isnt even the right word, in that the quality of the game would only be of any interest if it was in someway exceptional to the point that its blatant ties to abhorrent ideologies might be worth considering looking past. I've read both positive and negative reviews. I've read reviews that focused entirely on the inherent racist agenda of the game, and I've read reviews that ignored all political context. What I've yet to see is any indication the game system offers anything that multitudes of RPGS without any moral quandries involved don't already provide.

Quote from: Tristram Evans;941839All you mentioned was that the game includes "weaknesses". Thats so far from unique that I have to wonder if you've ever seen an RPG besides D&D

If all you were able to glean from my previous post was one system, I'm hesitant to take the time to lay it out again for you.  I've discussed several systems, throughout this thread, but no matter.  

I'm actually looking at picking up another RPG I've seen advertised "Low Fantasy RPG", and I'll give that a quick run through and review.

That and I'm still waiting for my REH Conan RPG hardcovers to arrive so I can jump head long into that game.

I also have Conan Exiles (Survival MMO - by Funcom) going into early access on January 31!!  That may occupy much of my free (gaming) time for quite some time as well.

Quote from: AsenRG;941721And once you've paid the money, well, you might as well try and salvage the game

Not necessarily. I have thrown away, given away, or sold cheap many crappy games, or even sorta alright games that I knew I'd never play or run.

Quote from: Bluddworth;941813They have not played it and are basing their opinion on what others have said.  

Of the three, the first is the most legitimate.  The third is of course the mark of a weak minded or willed person

Our guy John Kim has a list of published rpgs, and a bunch of free rpgs. Currently it's 1,101 published for money rpgs, and over 500 free rpgs. So that's 1,600 rpgs in all. And we know he's missed some, and more are being published all the time.

If gaming were my full-time job, I could play one rpg a day, five days a week, and it'd still take 5-6 years to get through them - and by then of course more would be published, so we can add a year to that. On average since gaming started back in then 1970s, there's been about 30-40 new rpgs a year (more in the 80s, less in the 90s, lots now that it's so easy to write up a pdf). Let's be conservative and call it one new game every fortnight.

Since nobody is paying me to game, let alone a whole game group, I have to rely on reviews and my own instincts. You may call this weak-minded, I would suggest it's simply that I have a life outside gaming. But perhaps you don't. That's okay, lots of racists have no job.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;941858Our guy John Kim has a list of published rpgs, and a bunch of free rpgs. Currently it's 1,101 published for money rpgs, and over 500 free rpgs. So that's 1,600 rpgs in all. And we know he's missed some, and more are being published all the time.

If gaming were my full-time job, I could play one rpg a day, five days a week, and it'd still take 5-6 years to get through them - and by then of course more would be published, so we can add a year to that. On average since gaming started back in then 1970s, there's been about 30-40 new rpgs a year (more in the 80s, less in the 90s, lots now that it's so easy to write up a pdf). Let's be conservative and call it one new game every fortnight.

Since nobody is paying me to game, let alone a whole game group, I have to rely on reviews and my own instincts. You may call this weak-minded, I would suggest it's simply that I have a life outside gaming. But perhaps you don't. That's okay, lots of racists have no job.

Yawn..

Quote from: Bluddworth;941837[...] Although I will say this, I did use the weather / wind tables to determine their effects on a sea travel segment of my adventure and the tables actually came in handy and directed some of the story I was crafting.

I actually need info on this. I do have tables from D&D 2e DMG, Birthright's Seas of Cerilia box set, and Wilderness Survival Guide (along with more from other games I am currently forgetting in my pile). However I am running a heavy naval & sea travel campaign in Birthright. So any additional rules for wind, weather, currents, & non-critter encounters upon which to compare I am totally on the lookout.

I am debating using Birthright's sea region system, due to travel of navies, and an amalgam of solo boat hex map & weather/current for getting off course. A gamebook of mostly tables is not immediately bad in my eyes as long as they provide creative at-table-quick solutions. That's why Vornheim is high on my wish list.

So spill table beans!

Quote from: Opaopajr;941868I actually need info on this. I do have tables from D&D 2e DMG, Birthright's Seas of Cerilia box set, and Wilderness Survival Guide (along with more from other games I am currently forgetting in my pile). However I am running a heavy naval & sea travel campaign in Birthright. So any additional rules for wind, weather, currents, & non-critter encounters upon which to compare I am totally on the lookout.

I am debating using Birthright's sea region system, due to travel of navies, and an amalgam of solo boat hex map & weather/current for getting off course. A gamebook of mostly tables is not immediately bad in my eyes as long as they provide creative at-table-quick solutions. That's why Vornheim is high on my wish list.

So spill table beans!

Well I really can't spill the table beans, I'm sure that this website has rules against posting pictures of game rules from copyright materials.

But the system takes into account:  seasonal weather averages; time of day; wind speed and direction; temperature; precipitation; etc.

These all impacted ship speed, difficulty of sailing, amount of stamina used by characters on board ship, travel time, encounters, etc.

For long distance travel, the GM only needs to check for events evey 6 hours of travel.  So I did this ahead of time and laid it all out for the players as it happened.  I was half expecting the weather system to be as tedious as the critics made it sound, but in practice (and having used it for the first time) I found that the use of the 2.6 rules made it simple.  It also added an excellent story telling element to the adventure.  

That is one of the major points I make about the criticism of the game, it is usually based on the first edition and not on the most recent.  The same dilemma occurs in reviews of PC games, especially MMORPGs, which are often reviewed early on after release and not 6 months after release when many fixes are made.