Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 14, 2023, 11:52:04 PM

Quote from: Wisithir on April 14, 2023, 05:35:28 AM

Quote from: Grognard GM on April 14, 2023, 01:39:33 AM
My plan has always been to run G.I. Joe and Transformers using Cartoon Action Hour, as I already emulate several other similar cartoons with it. I always appreciate system suggestions though.

Is that Transformers and G.I. Joe in the same game or two separate game? I have been looking for system that could handle both for miniature wargame IP that blended multiple 80's cartoon inspirations into one new setting. I think Savage Worlds Robotech might be a good choice based on the system's flexibility, snappy combats, and bennies to emulate unlikely cartoon plot contrivances.

Bot War is a miniature wargame that's a shameless stew of Transformers, GI Joe, MASK, Dino Riders, etc, etc...

https://tradersgalaxy.com.au/product-category/bot-war/

It's a fun setting that has evolved past its inspirations. However, a wargame is not a good engine for a roleplaying campaign. WH40K miniatures game is not a substitute for Rogue Trader/Dark Heresy/Deathwatch/Only War.

What RPG system would be good for Bot War?

Quote from: Wisithir on April 15, 2023, 01:23:40 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 14, 2023, 11:52:04 PM

Quote from: Wisithir on April 14, 2023, 05:35:28 AM

Quote from: Grognard GM on April 14, 2023, 01:39:33 AM
My plan has always been to run G.I. Joe and Transformers using Cartoon Action Hour, as I already emulate several other similar cartoons with it. I always appreciate system suggestions though.

Is that Transformers and G.I. Joe in the same game or two separate game? I have been looking for system that could handle both for miniature wargame IP that blended multiple 80's cartoon inspirations into one new setting. I think Savage Worlds Robotech might be a good choice based on the system's flexibility, snappy combats, and bennies to emulate unlikely cartoon plot contrivances.

Bot War is a miniature wargame that's a shameless stew of Transformers, GI Joe, MASK, Dino Riders, etc, etc...

https://tradersgalaxy.com.au/product-category/bot-war/

It's a fun setting that has evolved past its inspirations. However, a wargame is not a good engine for a roleplaying campaign. WH40K miniatures game is not a substitute for Rogue Trader/Dark Heresy/Deathwatch/Only War.

What RPG system would be good for Bot War?

You mentioned wargames, so I thought I'd bring it up. Heck, once upon a time I cobbled together an RPG for 40k Rogue Trader (the original) using Warhammer Fantasy as a template.

CAH would probably be the system. Transformers and GI Joe have scale and power issues, and the system would have to be flexible enough to include that. I've got Metal Wars for CAH, the Transformers knock off. I just am not interested in emulating cartoons with an RPG, so I haven't played it.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 15, 2023, 05:01:16 AM
CAH would probably be the system. Transformers and GI Joe have scale and power issues, and the system would have to be flexible enough to include that. I've got Metal Wars for CAH, the Transformers knock off. I just am not interested in emulating cartoons with an RPG, so I haven't played it.

Thank you for the suggestion, I will bring up CAH over in the Bot War group. Any suggestions for running a more "real robot" than "super robot" game in the setting? My thought was a human team working for one of the fratricidal robot tyrants to acquire piloted mech technology from his merman allies that would not work with humans directly. Take out his enemies while allowing him to fail through no fault on the human teams part all while trying to minimize collateral damage and casualties and acquire more tech. More Gundam than transformers, but not in space and much smaller mechs. Mekton seem too simulationist, thus not fast or flexible in non combat, while Mechamorphisis does not do non-bots well and has the d20 power curve whereas robot capability tends to be more stagnant save for a mid season upgrade.

Quote from: Wisithir on April 15, 2023, 05:36:57 AM
Mekton seem too simulationist, thus not fast or flexible in non combat

Friendly reminder that GNS is pure shit and using it as a frame of reference for evaluating games simply doesn't work.
Case in point: Mekton is an Interlock game, just like Cyberpunk 2020. Roll 1d10 + skill modifier vs difficulty is everything but slow, and skill based system like this are the definition of flexibility.

Quote from: Wisithir on April 15, 2023, 05:36:57 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 15, 2023, 05:01:16 AM
CAH would probably be the system. Transformers and GI Joe have scale and power issues, and the system would have to be flexible enough to include that. I've got Metal Wars for CAH, the Transformers knock off. I just am not interested in emulating cartoons with an RPG, so I haven't played it.

Thank you for the suggestion, I will bring up CAH over in the Bot War group. Any suggestions for running a more "real robot" than "super robot" game in the setting?

Yeah, Don't. CAH is not suited to "real robots". CAH is focused on emulating staturday morning cartoons over the specific settings in them. That's what makes it flexible enough to encompass all the disparate shows/settings, but that also means it's not good at representing any specific setting in detail.

Quote from: Vestragor on April 15, 2023, 05:57:06 AM

Quote from: Wisithir on April 15, 2023, 05:36:57 AM
Mekton seem too simulationist, thus not fast or flexible in non combat

Friendly reminder that GNS is pure shit and using it as a frame of reference for evaluating games simply doesn't work.
Case in point: Mekton is an Interlock game, just like Cyberpunk 2020. Roll 1d10 + skill modifier vs difficulty is everything but slow, and skill based system like this are the definition of flexibility.

The Interlock part is good, resolving an attack from one mech to another is rather tedious with evasion, block/parry, armor penetration, armor degradation, then damage to and destruction of systems under the armor effecting the unit's performance.  To me, the combat feels like simulating Dreadnought era naval combat. Not much human centric stuff to run a mixed environment with. I do evaluate whether a given game is better at the nitty gritty details of its subject matter, or emulating the genre or setting thereof, and simulation is a good word to describe the former. I did not realize that adding "-ist" to it made it a bad word.

Quote from: Wisithir on April 15, 2023, 06:42:56 AM

Quote from: Vestragor on April 15, 2023, 05:57:06 AM

Quote from: Wisithir on April 15, 2023, 05:36:57 AM
Mekton seem too simulationist, thus not fast or flexible in non combat

Friendly reminder that GNS is pure shit and using it as a frame of reference for evaluating games simply doesn't work.
Case in point: Mekton is an Interlock game, just like Cyberpunk 2020. Roll 1d10 + skill modifier vs difficulty is everything but slow, and skill based system like this are the definition of flexibility.

The Interlock part is good, resolving an attack from one mech to another is rather tedious with evasion, block/parry, armor penetration, armor degradation, then damage to and destruction of systems under the armor effecting the unit's performance.  To me, the combat feels like simulating Dreadnought era naval combat. Not much human centric stuff to run a mixed environment with. I do evaluate whether a given game is better at the nitty gritty details of its subject matter, or emulating the genre or setting thereof, and simulation is a good word to describe the former. I did not realize that adding "-ist" to it made it a bad word.

I recommend Jovian Chronicles/Heavy Gear for fast real robot style combat.

Quote from: Wisithir on April 15, 2023, 05:36:57 AMThank you for the suggestion, I will bring up CAH over in the Bot War group. Any suggestions for running a more "real robot" than "super robot" game in the setting?

Cartoon Action Hour's 3rd edition rulebook PDF is up on DriveThru for $15, and it regularly goes up on sale. In addition, DriveThru has an extended preview of the entire book, so you can actually read before you buy.

Pages 48-55 is the section of most interest to you, although of course a lot of it won't make sense without a grasp of the rules in general.

I've used CAH to run Masters Of The Universe, TMNT, and Visionaries games. No Transformers yet, but the mechanics are there. YMMV of course, as we all have our own expectations.

I'm pretty sure you already know my opinion on RuneQuest 
And I'll second you on Black Void; it's Bronze Age magical Star Gate, what's not to love? But yeah the system is so "meh" I immediately started thinking what system I could replace it with.  Maybe one day I'll whip a one shot using Mini6 and Genre Divergent.

Quote from: Vestragor on April 14, 2023, 09:10:59 AM
The current edition of Kult is a perfect case of vice versa (great setting with crap rules), but that's a given since it's PbtA (the by-the-book definition of "how to do games wrong").

Another example of great setting with meh rules was Underground from Mayfair Games: hilarious satirical near future setting coupled with a game system that was barely functional. The society parameters subsystem was nice, though.

I'd put City of Mist next to Kult; a cool setting, but it's also using PBtA, which while I don't hate, it just feels a bit too loosey-goosey for my taste.

Also, is Underground the one about players running around a magical realm under NYC, and the main mechanic was coin flips (and was really just a set of thinly veiled LARP rules?)

Shadowrun - great setting, incoherent and disappointing system, never ever let a character play as a decker...

SW Deadlands - Has anyone ever tried to run a published adventure?  Every opponent is rolling 1d12+2 against you for everything.  The original Deadlands setting is about the absolute sweet spot for Wild West meets supernatural.  But the mechanics... whew!

Beyond the Supernatural.  I could tolerate the Palladium system for TMNT or Robotech.  Not ideal, but serviceable.  But for a horror game?  Lemme see what I need to roll for in combat: ho, haha, guard, turn, parry, dodge, spin, ha, thrust...

Millennium's End:  declare your aim point.  Then put a literal circular template over an actual silhouette of a person and roll for where the bullet hits (or not).  Interesting setting, but it takes "realism" just a bit too far...

Oh, and f*** Starfinder.  In the excretory orifice.  With a purple lightsaber.  And a photon torpedo...

Rifts: Dislike the setting, like the mechanics.

Later versions of Shadowrun: Li9ke the setting and early mechanics. But past 3e the setting and mechanics start to go downhill nearly hand in hand.

Albedo Platimum: Great setting, slapdash cash-in of a system.

Other Suns: interesting setting. WTF system and a nasty designer on top of all that.

Universe: Complex yet surprisingly functional system. Barely any setting to it.

Mekton: Great system, not fond of the default setting.

d20m Gamma World(in name only) An interesting setting even if it has nothing to do with GW. But White Wolf, Baugh and Lizard couldnt write a coherent system to save their lives and didnt even bother because "oh the players will write that for us."

4e D&D Gamma World(in name only) 4e done as an actual RPG. But what a train wreck of a failure setting.

And more.

Quote from: Baron on April 14, 2023, 02:52:55 PM

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on April 14, 2023, 02:09:59 PM
I love almost everything about Runequest.  Glorantha leaves me so cold that sometimes I get frost bite before I can close the book again.

I don't know which Glorantha you've been exposed to. I sneer at the behemoth it's become, but I'm a great fan of what we saw in the old 1e-2e days. There's a great PDF swimming around on the internet, a campaign log written by Jeff Okamoto detailing his five years playing in Sandy Petersen's RQ game. It's a blast, and (of course) very old school. The account can be quite inspirational. Anyway, I recommend giving it a look.

I agree with Steven mitchell, Glorantha leaves me cold but RQ2 was amazing and adaptable. Also a great GM can make any setting fun.

Quote from: Omega on April 16, 2023, 09:27:45 AM
Other Suns: interesting setting. WTF system and a nasty designer on top of all that.
Universe: Complex yet surprisingly functional system. Barely any setting to it.

Two responses:
- I met Niall Shapero, we have some mutual friends. Seemed like a nice guy, harmless enough. Lives nearby and invited me to play in his campaign. Can I ask what you meant by "nasty designer?"
- Here's an interesting point. IMO, I don't need an RPG to provide a "setting." If I sit down to run a rules system, I probably already have elements in mind and just start translating my vision to paper. Universe doesn't really have an explicit setting, so that makes it "crap?"

Fading Suns.
I really like setting but the Victory Point System lefts me cold.
No wonder which each edition it was tinkered with extensively without much result (4e aside of woke elements seems most clunkiest mechanics wise).