I think classifying the snakes by species is a mistake. Instead they should be classified by level. The venom TN would vary based on the level as would the damage and strength of constrictor snakes. Then you can simply assign any description of the snake as you want. So you could have a small anaconda or a large one. Two simple charts showing the stats per level of the snake is all you need.

I do this for all monsters.

Gygax had a polearm fetish; go ahead and have a snake fetish. Detail them like crazy as fits your game.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on November 15, 2023, 01:32:39 PM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on November 15, 2023, 12:58:54 PM
I've been obsessing over encountered tables lately.

I think some granularity is useful some is not. For example, there is little difference between bandits and brigands, and pirates and buccaneers, in B/X.

Specifically about snakes, B/X has FIVE, but all under the same entry - which is a good idea IMO.

So, I think some granularity IS justified here. And appropriate for a pulp setting.

Snakes are dangerous creatures. I've been in Pantanal (flooded plains) and, while it is common to see jaguars, alligators, anteaters (those things have claws), piranhas (quippers), and many other animals, snakes are the only ones who actually kill people from time to time (other cases happens, but are much rarer).

(also wild pigs - I've read they break horses legs).

B/X as in the original or the retroclone?

The original! I was going by OSE, but they didn't add any monsters to the game AFAIK:

https://oldschoolessentials.necroticgnome.com/srd/index.php/Snake

Quote from: Eric Diaz on November 15, 2023, 12:58:54 PM
Snakes are dangerous creatures. I've been in Pantanal (flooded plains) and, while it is common to see jaguars, alligators, anteaters (those things have claws), piranhas (quippers), and many other animals, snakes are the only ones who actually kill people from time to time (other cases happens, but are much rarer).

Hm, well here in the U.S. about 5 people/year die from snake bites. More than 5 times that number are killed by alligators annually in Florida alone.

This could be partially about alligators (don't underestimate them either), and also partially about how venomous the snakes are regionally: a lot more people die from snake bite in India than the U.S., for example.

(Edit: of course snakes in your fantasy world can be as dangerous as you want them to be! I like my snakes, whether venomous or constrictor, to have the power of hypnosis, Jungle Book style.)

Quote from: Zalman on November 16, 2023, 08:17:47 AM

Quote from: Eric Diaz on November 15, 2023, 12:58:54 PM
Snakes are dangerous creatures. I've been in Pantanal (flooded plains) and, while it is common to see jaguars, alligators, anteaters (those things have claws), piranhas (quippers), and many other animals, snakes are the only ones who actually kill people from time to time (other cases happens, but are much rarer).

Hm, well here in the U.S. about 5 people/year die from snake bites. More than 5 times that number are killed by alligators annually in Florida alone.

This could be partially about alligators (don't underestimate them either), and also partially about how venomous the snakes are regionally: a lot more people die from snake bite in India than the U.S., for example.

(Edit: of course snakes in your fantasy world can be as dangerous as you want them to be! I like my snakes, whether venomous or constrictor, to have the power of hypnosis, Jungle Book style.)

Huh, interesting stuff!

I didn't know that florida alligators were so dangerous! They seems significantly larger than the ones in pantanal.

Just googled for more info, it seems that MOSQUITOES are the real villains...

Maybe they should appear on encounter tables, would really scare my players...

With this kind of question, I like to take time and digest it before answering.

I have no problems with having dozens or even hundreds of types of snakes being listed and stats being made for them.  However, if you're going to truly make this a functional part of your game, you're going to have to give a bit more information than just basic stats.  Here's what I think would be useful:

     Markings and colors
     Length and weight
     Aggressiveness
     Natural habitat and natural behavior  (is it a climber or a burrower?  Is it very active or lethargic?)
     Natural prey and natural predators

With this, you can use snakes as a natural hazard for a party going into the jungle but one that the party can possibly research before hand or be warned about.  You can now add non venomous snakes to your encounters while putting weight on your players to use discernment rather than just freaking out and killing every living rope they see.  Also, treating snakes as the animals they are rather than just monsters, players can deal with the large black snake that fell out of a tree into their camp with snake handling techniques rather than the running, screaming, and shooting that idiot murder hobos are likely to do.

Another thing is that having a snake out of place or exhibit uncharacteristic behavior could be a clue for the party indicating a much larger problem at hand.  One of my favorite mystery novels had a villain use a fer-de-lance as a murder weapon in NYC.  This was a lead for the detective and he was able to solve the case by finding it's origin.  An overly aggressive snake that charges and strikes without provocation might be an indicator that something else is afoot as well.  Most snakes, even large and venomous ones, are typically averse to direct confrontations.   

A black mamba is not just another snake with lethal venom, it is a species with it's own unique characteristics  and behaviors.  You don't have to go full Steve Irwin for these distinctions to be meaningful either.

tl;dr  If you're going to have a lot of different snakes, lean into it and give each one a full and unique profile rather than just being a slightly more powerful version of the one before.

Quote from: Eric Diaz on November 16, 2023, 08:37:11 AM
I didn't know that florida alligators were so dangerous! They seems significantly larger than the ones in pantanal.

The crocodiles are even bigger and crankier! (but much less numerous)

Quote from: Eric Diaz on November 16, 2023, 08:44:02 AM
Just googled for more info, it seems that MOSQUITOES are the real villains...

Anecdotally, this also bears out my Florida experience.

I would make a random poison/venom generator/table and then have like.. 2-3 snake entries with a few of the possible outcomes of the random table as the types of venom the snake would have.
For instance.
Snake 1 might be generic for constrictors and have no venom
Snake 2 might be generic for weaker venoms and have 1d4 different types of venom possible depending on the specific species
Snake 3 might be generic for deadlier venoms and have 1d4 different types of venom possible depending on the specific species

Don't forget Florida Man tendencies when taking fatalities into account.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on November 16, 2023, 09:12:09 AM
Don't forget Florida Man tendencies when taking fatalities into account.

I resent this remark.  I don't deny it but I still resent it. 

Great input from everyone, thanks, I'll try and address all your points in no particular order:

Yes, gators and crocs are fearsome, but you're not likely to encounter one in dry land, a cave, an apartment or the dessert for instance (unless we're talking of the valley that time forgot and you find a land croc (wich wasn't a croc) which is both huge and faster than any living croc/gator).

Mosquitoes... See above.

Snake fetish... Not really but see below:

Leaning into it:
Sea Snake 50% chance you didn't feel the bite.
Cobra 50% chance it was a dry bite (spitting Cobra, the name says it all + the normal cobra stuff)
Mambas (black & green) highly aggresive, will bite several times in a row, green one is really fast in it's strikes.
Etc.

Now, I don't plan on having hundreds of different snakes, treating ALL sea snakes the same, ALL cobras the same, Mambas, Rattle Snake, Coral, Taipan, etc.

BUT, not all of those kill you as fast, for instance the King Cobra is so deadly because of the ammount of venom it injects, I don't want them all to be just a "save or die" critter, but some should be.

I wonder if you saw the ammount of prehistoric beasts I'm including if I would get the same reactions. Not complaining, killing your sacred cows is a good thing from time to time, I don't plan on going all Gun Porn on it but I do want some granularity I haven't found elsewhere. This is a Pulp game FFS, there has to be snakes!

Quote from: Banjo Destructo on November 16, 2023, 09:12:05 AM
I would make a random poison/venom generator/table and then have like.. 2-3 snake entries with a few of the possible outcomes of the random table as the types of venom the snake would have.
For instance.
Snake 1 might be generic for constrictors and have no venom
Snake 2 might be generic for weaker venoms and have 1d4 different types of venom possible depending on the specific species
Snake 3 might be generic for deadlier venoms and have 1d4 different types of venom possible depending on the specific species

That's a great suggestion and one I plan on using so you as the GM can have your Evil Genious create deadlier Snakes/critters.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on November 15, 2023, 07:38:37 PM
I think classifying the snakes by species is a mistake. Instead they should be classified by level. The venom TN would vary based on the level as would the damage and strength of constrictor snakes. Then you can simply assign any description of the snake as you want. So you could have a small anaconda or a large one. Two simple charts showing the stats per level of the snake is all you need.

I do this for all monsters.

I say make a snake chart: all the names, venom levels, and constrictor strength, and a very simple, organized rule set on measuring those stats.

There should be a random table for venom type, a random table for venom strength, a random table for snake size, and a random snake hit dice table modified by the random snake size table.

This is the OSR, isn't it?