Quote from: misterguignol;516339On the GM side of the equation...
- The elements of Gothic fantasy (how to incorporate the uncanny, the carnivalesque, spectrality, etc.)

This stuff can be very useful, but it can also be not so practical if it gets bogged in lit theory or jargon. So i would try to make my terms and the concepts approavhable as well as useful for your standard GM. It is one of those things where your greatest strength can become your greatest weakness if you arent careful. So far this all looks good, i have just seen gaming products get too academic and result in no practical benefit for the gm. So it will help if you connect all ese elements to concrete in-game events. (i.e. Here are some examples if how the uncanny may arise in a game session).

Quote- Toolkit on making a Gothic setting (with example setting)
- Advice on making Gothic villains (with sample villains)

I like that both of these have samples.

QuoteA "Night Gallery" of the usual suspects (vampire, Frankenstein's monster, werewolf, ghost, mummy, etc.) with LotFP stats

Excellent to include these. I would also include creative variations as well.

QuoteGrimoire rules (add-ons for the drawbacks to reading eldritch tomes) with sample grimoires and new spells

This sounds good, but am not familiar enough with LotFP magic to know for sure.

QuotePoisons, Disease, Curses, and Body Horror tables

You may want to add a subsystem on gothic curses. Ravenloft had something like ths and as a GM I found it very useul. It looks ike these are tables, so how will they work? Is body horror table a bunch of wierd things can can randomoy go wrong? Body horror (done well) can be very effective in an rpg, but you probably want to elaborate on it and give advice on how to incorporate it.

QuoteSample Gothic Fantasy adventure scenarios: The Horror at Humphrey House, The Black Casket, or, The Antiquarian's Lament, and Into the Crypts of Von Orlocke

One can never have enough of these. Definitely cram in as many as possible. I suggest adding in a bunch of advnture seeds as well.

Quote from: misterguignol;516499I want to stress that the supplement will definitely be a toolkit; I want to leave the mix between Gothic and Fantasy up to the GM running the campaign.  Hell, everything in the book is "optional"--nothing is "core."

I missed that part. If it is a toolkit of options that makes a big difference. In that case for the "what is gothic fantasy" section i would probably want to see an overview of possible answers to the question. And I would want to see it not just in terms of lit history, but game history as well. For example, you could go over the various rpgs that qualify as gothic fantasy and explain how each addressed the genre (maybe assessing tge strengths and weaknesses if each). That way, i can tailor the game to my taste more.




Thank you for your feedback![/QUOTE]

Brendan's got a point with the Dark Secrets being random if you have a dark secret all all - perhaps a "Past of the Hero" table, with a few results, and Dark Secret being one of them? Or spread the Dark Secrets to the various results on such a table, like for example

1d10:

1: War - roll on War Encounters table
2: Famine
3: Unemployment
4: Love

etc. etc. I know it was my favourite (well, only favourite tbh) part of a certain Polish dark fantasy RPG, Monastyr.

I'd also suggest a Gothic Environment suggestion table. Explain how to gothic up the environment, how to add flavor to "You see a bridge..." how to build from the moment that players come a location, and perceive its "strangeness."

Quote from: Silverlion;516594I'd also suggest a Gothic Environment suggestion table. Explain how to gothic up the environment, how to add flavor to "You see a bridge..." how to build from the moment that players come a location, and perceive its "strangeness."

That's a great idea...something like the random dungeon dressing tables from the DMG?

I like keeping clerical ideas and religious structure as a strong theme. Few things are as gothic as the austere interpretations of an all-prevalent human institution protecting the masses, in the name of the divine, from the earth's horrors (spiritual and physical). Gothic is a whole lot about faith, often about holding things together while things fall apart.

The trouble is trying to get rid of the "reset buttons" and "safe houses" that make clerics so powerful in such settings. So an amalgam of personal/structural corruption (indulgences) and alien culture confusion (colonialism) would help such a mix. As would be some "Dark Sun" tailoring to the allowed spell list. In a desert world, remove create water spells; in a gothic world, remove spells (lasting light?, cure disease?, cure serious wounds?...).

Quote from: Opaopajr;516615I like keeping clerical ideas and religious structure as a strong theme. Few things are as gothic as the austere interpretations of an all-prevalent human institution protecting the masses, in the name of the divine, from the earth's horrors (spiritual and physical). Gothic is a whole lot about faith, often about holding things together while things fall apart.

The trouble is trying to get rid of the "reset buttons" and "safe houses" that make clerics so powerful in such settings. So an amalgam of personal/structural corruption (indulgences) and alien culture confusion (colonialism) would help such a mix. As would be some "Dark Sun" tailoring to the allowed spell list. In a desert world, remove create water spells; in a gothic world, remove spells (lasting light?, cure disease?, cure serious wounds?...).

Remove Raise Dead and the like. Give greater versions of Animate Dead, which bring the subject closer and closer to what they were in life (LotFP's spell already works a bit that way), and move it to MU on level 3. The whole "I have the power to bring her back...but I can not use it" temptation

Quote from: Rincewind1;516616Remove Raise Dead and the like. Give greater versions of Animate Dead, which bring the subject closer and closer to what they were in life (LotFP's spell already works a bit that way), and move it to MU on level 3. The whole "I have the power to bring her back...but I can not use it" temptation

Yep, there is no Raise Dead in LotFP.

Also, the Gothic isn't nearly as religion-friendly as people here seem to assume.  Keep in mind that much of the Gothic is set in Catholic countries yet was written by Protestants.  Which means that depictions of religion tend to show it to be corrupt and backwards in comparison to Enlightenment values.

If a character is a monk in a Gothic novel he's more likely to rape someone's daughter or poison the prince than he is to brandish a cross against vampires

I was going to say something but Rincewind1 basically already said anything I would say beyond maybe doing something like Warhammer and using a dual insanity/corruption track for arcane magic use.

Quote from: misterguignol;516628Yep, there is no Raise Dead in LotFP.

Also, the Gothic isn't nearly as religion-friendly as people here seem to assume.  Keep in mind that much of the Gothic is set in Catholic countries yet was written by Protestants.  Which means that depictions of religion tend to show it to be corrupt and backwards in comparison to Enlightenment values.

If a character is a monk in a Gothic novel he's more likely to rape someone's daughter or poison the prince than he is to brandish a cross against vampires

Good .

And yeah, Pit and the Pendulum was set in Spain, Pits of Inquisition, after all. So the Church can be a hero, but can also be a villain. Although when we talk DnD "Cleric", I am thinking more about Van Helsing (who is, as I understand, the original idea for Cleric actually anyway) when it comes to Gothic setting. Perhaps change the name (or at least give some fluff) for the Cleric being not necessarily an ordained priest, but a man/woman of deep Faith with capital f?

Quote from: Rincewind1;516631Good .

And yeah, Pit and the Pendulum was set in Spain, Pits of Inquisition, after all. So the Church can be a hero, but can also be a villain.

Yep, notice who rides in to save the protagonist in that story: the French Army, who are basically the secular antidote to the Spanish Inquisition!

QuoteAlthough when we talk DnD "Cleric", I am thinking more about Van Helsing (who is, as I understand, the original idea for Cleric actually anyway) when it comes to Gothic setting.

I think the inspiration was actually film versions of Van Helsing.  In Stoker's book, Van Helsing is more of a scientist than he is a man of faith, really.  

QuotePerhaps change the name (or at least give some fluff) for the Cleric being not necessarily an ordained priest, but a man/woman of deep Faith with capital f?

I like the name because it's quite generic; it just means "agent of the religion," which could be anything from a monk or priest to a templar or "inspired" fanatic.  I've got the fluff written for the "Pious Cleric" archetype, and I think that would fit what you're talking about.

Quote from: Marleycat;516630I was going to say something but Rincewind1 basically already said anything I would say beyond maybe doing something like Warhammer and using a dual insanity/corruption track for arcane magic use.

I like your suggestion, but I also don't want to stray too far from the LotFP rules.  Rince did convince me to work up a system for Terror, Horror, and Madness.  I could give some notes in the text how that might fit together with the magic system.

Quote from: misterguignol;516633Yep, notice who rides in to save the protagonist in that story: the French Army, who are basically the secular antidote to the Spanish Inquisition!


I like the name because it's quite generic; it just means "agent of the religion," which could be anything from a monk or priest to a templar or "inspired" fanatic.  I've got the fluff written for the "Pious Cleric" archetype, and I think that would fit what you're talking about.

The Napoleonic Army is an antidote to anything, I had discovered .

And I guess you're right. My point was to distinct between Cleric and Priest, so to speak, because of the reasons you had posted.

Quote from: Marleycat;516630I was going to say something but Rincewind1 basically already said anything I would say beyond maybe doing something like Warhammer and using a dual insanity/corruption track for arcane magic use.

I'd second this in a way - magic generally as source of Corruption. Of both mind and body.

Quote from: misterguignol;516634I like your suggestion, but I also don't want to stray too far from the LotFP rules.  Rince did convince me to work up a system for Terror, Horror, and Madness.  I could give some notes in the text how that might fit together with the magic system.

Cool.  You are talking about Lamentations of the Flame Princess I assume?  Never read it myself but I hear good things about it.

Quote from: Marleycat;516638Cool.  You are talking about Lamentations of the Flame Princess I assume?  Never read it myself but I hear good things about it.

I am indeed!  That acronym really throws people off, I should stop be lazy and type it all out

You can actually download an art-free version of the rules from the publisher's website if you want to check it out.  The rules are basically a thematically-skewed version of B/X D&D.