I'm begun assembling what I already have ready-to-go for my Gothic Fantasy supplement for LotFP, but I wanted to ask what folks actually would want to find in such a product.  What would you find useful?

Here's my preliminary breakdown of sections:

On the player side of the equation...

- Introduction: What is Gothic Fantasy?
- Gothic character archetypes
- Add-on Career Path system for generating Gothic Fantasy characters
- Multiclassing rules for LotFP
- Dark Secrets tables for fleshing-out character backgrounds
- Random equipment tables
- Random-roll "Gothic-appropriate" names
- Appendix N of Gothic lit

On the GM side of the equation...
- The elements of Gothic fantasy (how to incorporate the uncanny, the carnivalesque, spectrality, etc.)
- Toolkit on making a Gothic setting (with example setting)
- Advice on making Gothic villains (with sample villains)
- A "Night Gallery" of the usual suspects (vampire, Frankenstein's monster, werewolf, ghost, mummy, etc.) with LotFP stats
- Grimoire rules (add-ons for the drawbacks to reading eldritch tomes) with sample grimoires and new spells
- Poisons, Disease, Curses, and Body Horror tables
- Sample Gothic Fantasy adventure scenarios: The Horror at Humphrey House, The Black Casket, or, The Antiquarian's Lament, and Into the Crypts of Von Orlocke

I'd add "Gothic Alchemy/Experiments" - Modern Prometheus or Strange Case are part of Gothic Horror after all, right? And the unnatural experiments are quite often prominent theme.

Quote from: Rincewind1;516340I'd add "Gothic Alchemy/Experiments" - Modern Prometheus or Strange Case are part of Gothic Horror after all, right? And the unnatural experiments are quite often prominent theme.

That is a great fucking idea.  Added to my list.  Thank you.

Quote from: misterguignol;516341That is a great fucking idea.  Added to my list.  Thank you.

:hatsoff: Hope you make a good job of it - I love me some Gothic Horror (Ravenloft is one of the two settings I ever bothered to run in DnD).

Also, checking through the Dark Secrets table - did you consider giving some mechanical weight to them? An optional rule, so to speak.

Also - I do not think LotFP has such mechanics, though I may be mistaken, but I'd also suggest

A) Sanity mechanic, or the variation of it (something akin to 3e's Ravenloft Fear, Horror and Madness mechanic, perhaps?)

And in conjunction with it
B) I'd suggest that you do not only make the grimoire rules, but also rules for learning spells - and how would  they affect physique and mentality of the character. I'm unsure here, but I think magic, magic - like technology, basically supernatural in general degenerates the character in Gothic fiction.

Which'd lead to suggestion C

C) Limit the clerical magic - I'd suggest leaving the creation of holy water, and the healing, protect from demons/undead etc, etc, spells, and perhaps some offensive anti - supernatural spells. You could also perhaps consider giving them Turn Undead - like ability as a form of a spell. Cleric as a spiritual leader with just a few divine abilities to help the allies fight the unnatural and the terrible, so to speak. But I am perhaps delving too much into your sphere now.

Quote from: misterguignol;516339- A "Night Gallery" of the usual suspects (vampire, Frankenstein's monster, werewolf, ghost, mummy, etc.) with LotFP stats

Unusual suspects would be more interesting, for my money.

Best of luck with the project!

Quote from: Rincewind1;516343Also, checking through the Dark Secrets table - did you consider giving some mechanical weight to them? An optional rule, so to speak.

Maybe, but what kind of mechanical weight are we talking about?

QuoteAlso - I do not think LotFP has such mechanics, though I may be mistaken, but I'd also suggest

A) Sanity mechanic, or the variation of it (something akin to 3e's Ravenloft Fear, Horror and Madness mechanic, perhaps?)

Hmm, I kinda doubt I will include something like that to be honest.  I'll consider it though.

QuoteAnd in conjunction with it
B) I'd suggest that you do not only make the grimoire rules, but also rules for learning spells - and how would  they affect physique and mentality of the character. I'm unsure here, but I think magic, magic - like technology, basically supernatural in general degenerates the character in Gothic fiction.

Already in the cards.

QuoteWhich'd lead to suggestion C

C) Limit the clerical magic - I'd suggest leaving the creation of holy water, and the healing, protect from demons/undead etc, etc, spells, and perhaps some offensive anti - supernatural spells. You could also perhaps consider giving them Turn Undead - like ability as a form of a spell. Cleric as a spiritual leader with just a few divine abilities to help the allies fight the unnatural and the terrible, so to speak. But I am perhaps delving too much into your sphere now.

I'm not going to mess with the raw material of the game too much, so probably not.  Keep in mind that it's Gothic Fantasy, not full-on Gothic lit emulation.  Under the trappings it's still going to play like a D&D game.

Quote from: Thalaba;516345Unusual suspects would be more interesting, for my money.

Best of luck with the project!

I will likely do a couple different takes on each monster so there are some surprises.

And thank you!

Quote from: misterguignol;516352Maybe, but what kind of mechanical weight are we talking about?

My suggestion would be, perhaps, a form of "race"? Like +1 to Stat A, -1 to Stat B. Or perhaps a minor perk, like "Once per day/week, you can do this". I am not really that comfortable with LotFP's mechanic to suggest something of much substance, sorry . Perhaps it's a foolish idea.

Rincewind's idea is AWESOME (the initial idea, haven't read the detail of subsequent posts).

Also love the ToC, MG. I suppose you're covering lycanthropy and vampyrs under Curses. Right?

As for Gothic Fantasy - some good points raised on the last one indeed. I'd perhaps suggest that the Sanity mechanic, or Fear mechanic, if you decide to include one, is not handled like in CoC/ToC (Where it is basically a resource for character's life's length), but perhaps a Madness/Insanity table could be a part of the GM stuff - give a GM a random table he could roll for NPCs mental disorder, or things that the PC could get after a particularly nasty adventure.

Basically, something similar to the Disease/Poison table . I'd say that it'd be good if only as a reference for a GM about mental disorders (I never myself used CoC's 20% = mental disorder rule, but I liked the list).

So is this going to be actually playable, or is the point just to be really showy and pretentious at character creation and then be an unplayable mess?

Because one of the things that is good about LotFP you know, is that its actually still playable, and playable as D&D.  And its more playable of course the less you pay attention to any of the nonsense Raggi says about "weird fantasy".

But it sounds to me like what you're doing is setting up a bunch of "cool" visuals: "ooh gothic fantasy, awesome! mist-enshrouded moors, kick ass! Guys with stovepipe hats! Wicked!! Everyone is utterly fucked up by dark secrets! Yeah! No one has any class abilities! Yay! Everything is full of dark imagery! Woo!"

So the two questions are:
1. How do you end up with something actually playable other than a bunch of PCs that look cool and then don't really have anything to do in a world that makes no sense?
2. Where's the fucking meat?

RPGPundit

I have no idea how you reached that conclusion Pundit, based on MG's work so far, and especially the comment that he's not planning to change the core of LotFP too much. Judging so far, there'll be quite a bit of meat, enough "fluffy" visuals, and a core mechanic that'll allow PCs to go out and explore a Gothic Setting. But I leave the rest of "defence" to MG.

QuoteBecause one of the things that is good about LotFP you know, is that its actually still playable, and playable as D&D. And its more playable of course the less you pay attention to any of the nonsense Raggi says about "weird fantasy".

Um, so just play it as DnD then? I have no problem with Weird/Gothic settings for DnD. Since when DnD is just Dungeons and Dragons (that sounds so punful).

Quote from: misterguignol;516339I'm begun assembling what I already have ready-to-go for my Gothic Fantasy supplement for LotFP, but I wanted to ask what folks actually would want to find in such a product.  What would you find useful?

Here's my preliminary breakdown of sections:

On the player side of the equation...

- Introduction: What is Gothic Fantasy?
- Gothic character archetypes
- Add-on Career Path system for generating Gothic Fantasy characters
- Multiclassing rules for LotFP
- Dark Secrets tables for fleshing-out character backgrounds
- Random equipment tables
- Random-roll "Gothic-appropriate" names
- Appendix N of Gothic lit

My experience with LotFP is limited, it has been explained to me and I have flipped through the rule book so keep that in mind with my response. Overall this sounds like a cool idea, but execution and your core concepts are going to be everything.

GOTHIC CHARACTER ARCHETYPES: Are these mechanical or conceptual. This could work, but i think you should be careful about veering too much in te direction of radically altering the setting assumption (like when ravenloft staeted bringing in too much 17th and 18th century stuff to keep with the gothic lit feel---a lot players didn't like this). So i would go with universal ideas here.      

MULTICLASSING RULES
If you plan to add in multiclassing rules to the system, i would be cautious. If only because it may produce some unexpected results and i am not sure how it contributes to the gothic fantasy goal. But i coukd be missing something here.

DARK SECRETS
i like this concept. My only advice is maybe not make it universal for all characters. Perhaps a percentage chance that any given character starts with a dark secret. An over abundance of these in a party may diminish the effect.

RANDOM ROLL GOTHIC APPROPRIATE NAMES
This seems like it isn't needed. Gothic is much deeper than things like names. And players probably want some measure of control over naming their characters.

APPENDIX N OF GOTHIC LIT: This is a good idea and probably will benefi greatly fom your expertise.

WHAT IS GOTHC FANTASY: I prefer mine heavy on the gothic, light on the fantasy. How you adress this question will probably determine both the rest of the book and who reads it/does not. Do you you have any core principles here?


I will respond the gm stuff shortly. So far, i think this is interesting.

Quote from: RPGPundit;516488But it sounds to me like what you're doing is setting up a bunch of "cool" visuals: "ooh gothic fantasy, awesome! mist-enshrouded moors, kick ass! Guys with stovepipe hats! Wicked!! Everyone is utterly fucked up by dark secrets! Yeah! No one has any class abilities! Yay! Everything is full of dark imagery! Woo!"

I thought you were all about genre emulation, Pundy.

QuoteSo the two questions are:
1. How do you end up with something actually playable other than a bunch of PCs that look cool and then don't really have anything to do in a world that makes no sense?

As playable as any LotFP character.  Which is to say, definitely playable.

Quote2. Where's the fucking meat?

What counts as meat to you?  You say the proposed ToC, right?  There are new systems and random tables in there, son.  Monster stats, new spells, rules for grimoires, three adventures.  Is that not meat by your definition?

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;516496GOTHIC CHARACTER ARCHETYPES: Are these mechanical or conceptual. This could work, but i think you should be careful about veering too much in te direction of radically altering the setting assumption (like when ravenloft staeted bringing in too much 17th and 18th century stuff to keep with the gothic lit feel---a lot players didn't like this). So i would go with universal ideas here.    

This section would be conceptual rather than mechanical.  It's essentially a "cheat sheet" for players who want to make a character that fits the genre but who haven't read a lot of Gothic lit.  Read through the archetypal character types found in Gothic lit, pick one you like, and use it as the framework for your character.  Instant genre appropriateness.

QuoteMULTICLASSING RULES
If you plan to add in multiclassing rules to the system, i would be cautious. If only because it may produce some unexpected results and i am not sure how it contributes to the gothic fantasy goal. But i coukd be missing something here.

I've used these rules since I got LotFP and I haven't really found any issues with cascading unexpected results.  The reason why I'd include them is that many characters in Gothic lit have a mix of abilities best emulated with multiclassing.

QuoteDARK SECRETS
i like this concept. My only advice is maybe not make it universal for all characters. Perhaps a percentage chance that any given character starts with a dark secret. An over abundance of these in a party may diminish the effect.

Interesting stuff for me to think about here.

QuoteRANDOM ROLL GOTHIC APPROPRIATE NAMES
This seems like it isn't needed. Gothic is much deeper than things like names. And players probably want some measure of control over naming their characters.

It's optional, of course.  But it's also super helpful for GMs who don't want to have to come up with genre-appropriate names on the fly

QuoteAPPENDIX N OF GOTHIC LIT: This is a good idea and probably will benefi greatly fom your expertise.

My list of Gothic works is definitely better than the ones found in Ravenloft books

QuoteWHAT IS GOTHC FANTASY: I prefer mine heavy on the gothic, light on the fantasy. How you adress this question will probably determine both the rest of the book and who reads it/does not. Do you you have any core principles here?

I want to stress that the supplement will definitely be a toolkit; I want to leave the mix between Gothic and Fantasy up to the GM running the campaign.  Hell, everything in the book is "optional"--nothing is "core."

QuoteI will respond the gm stuff shortly. So far, i think this is interesting.

Thank you for your feedback!