So I was impressed with the latest Mad Max movie, and was considering about what systems would be best for handling that sort of vehicular action.
Older choices might include Car Wars, GURPS Autoduel, and After the Bomb. I'm not a big fan of either Car Wars or GURPS Autoduel, though, and they're about high-tech armed cars with mounted weapons - while Mad Max is more about chases and people on top of cars/trucks shooting and jumping around on them.
New choices might include ocTane and Atomic Highway. I haven't tried either.
What are opinions here?
You already covered everything that came to mind.
Gamma World? I don't know that there would sufficient vehicle coverage for a Mad Max thing, though.
I really enjoyed running Atomic Highway, it's quite a light system that did not get in the way of the action. The system takes a bit of getting used to as I don't think any other game uses the same Dice Mechanic, but once you have basics down its pretty fast. It would definitely by my system of choice for a Mad Max style game.
Failing that, Savage Worlds maybe.
Quote from: jadrax;836102I really enjoyed running Atomic Highway, it's quite a light system that did not get in the way of the action. The system takes a bit of getting used to as I don't think any other game uses the same Dice Mechanic, but once you have basics down its pretty fast. It would definitely by my system of choice for a Mad Max style game.
Failing that, Savage Worlds maybe.
Are there any Savage Worlds books that cover vehicular combat?
Cyberpunk 2020's Interlock. Works Great, less filling. You can leverage Mekton's Road Strikers book too.
Or just go Mekton.
Renegade Nuns on Wheels from the Macho Women With Guns series. Yes , it is a minis game disguised as a RPG. But it still fits.
On a more serious note. BESM's Hotrods & Gun Bunnies.
Or Mekton Zeta Plus and just go with non-transforming non-armed vehicles.
Star Frontiers actually had an ok vehicle combat system and could be adapted to a road battler format.
If all you want are the cars as essentially a backdrop then about any game will do as you just need to make driving rolls not to crash when rammed and bumped and then deal with boarders man-to man. After the Bomb would fit that ideal.
Quote from: jhkim;836108Are there any Savage Worlds books that cover vehicular combat?
The Explorers Edition core book has them in it. (I looked its literally in front of me:))
I think BESM would be good too. Ignore the anime influence and look at what it is, GURPS lite in a different form.
007: James Bond. Because it has the best car chase system, and the rules cover everything else you'd need for the setting.
Quote from: Omega;836115If all you want are the cars as essentially a backdrop then about any game will do as you just need to make driving rolls not to crash when rammed and bumped and then deal with boarders man-to man. After the Bomb would fit that ideal.
Yeah, it seems to me that any system with decent chase rules and some way to gauge fighting across moving platforms would work. Any more detail than that and I'd start looking at something more wargamey... like Gorkamorka or Machinas/After the Horsemen.
I'm not a huge fan of the newest Call of Cthulhu rules but its new chase system did seem like it could be a fun mini-game... simple... probably easily used in Rubble & Ruin or similar PA setups.
Quote from: jhkim;836108Are there any Savage Worlds books that cover vehicular combat?
As Ronin pointed out, they are in the core rules.
There's also at least a couple of setting books that might be useful, 'Deadlands: Hell on Earth Reloaded' and 'Broken Earth' - But I don't own either so no idea if they are any good.
Other Dust is easily able to do this with minimal refitting - just decide what parts of the technological background are unwanted and maybe add some extra weapons, vehicles and the like that fit your theme & technological level.
There was a d20 Mad Max game called Redline. I don't know if it's still available anywhere.
Pretty much any skill-based system would do, although car chase rules would be advantage, especially where cars are not made of tissue paper.
Car Wars by Steve Jackson Games. The one with pedestrian rules.
Or Barbarians of the Aftermath splatbook for Barbarians of Lemuria.
I personally am stoked about Mutant: Year Zero, but I'm not yet sure how it handles vehicles. And it is mostly a game about mutants, so not very Mad Maxy.
Quote from: jadrax;836135As Ronin pointed out, they are in the core rules.
There's also at least a couple of setting books that might be useful, 'Deadlands: Hell on Earth Reloaded' and 'Broken Earth' - But I don't own either so no idea if they are any good.
Have Hell on Earth Reloaded, it has as good rules as savage worlds is going to have for car building, wear, scavenging and other post apoc details you'd want to run with. But the actual rules for car combat are still from the core. The deck based chase rules are pretty good for cinematic rather than simulation though.
Atomic Highway is pretty much Mad Max The RPG and you can get the PDFs for free. It has rules for building vehicles, chases and combat.
Normally for a action movie style hijinks I'd recommend Hero System but in this case it might not be the best as the vehicle combat leaves something to be desired, IMO.
GURPS might work though with the more cinematic options in play.
Oddly enough, the Indiana Jones RPG had a fairly viable vehicle chase system in it too that could be applied to a Mad Max style adventure. The whole system really would work adapted.
Quote from: Omega;836242Oddly enough, the Indiana Jones RPG had a fairly viable vehicle chase system in it too that could be applied to a Mad Max style adventure. The whole system really would work adapted.
Why is that odd?
Quote from: Matt;836244Why is that odd?
Considering the setting is 1940s RKO serial action. But in many ways that does translate well into a Road Warrior setting as car chases abounded in the serials.
Quote from: jhkim;836097So I was impressed with the latest Mad Max movie, and was considering about what systems would be best for handling that sort of vehicular action.
Older choices might include Car Wars, GURPS Autoduel, and After the Bomb. I'm not a big fan of either Car Wars or GURPS Autoduel, though, and they're about high-tech armed cars with mounted weapons - while Mad Max is more about chases and people on top of cars/trucks shooting and jumping around on them.
New choices might include ocTane and Atomic Highway. I haven't tried either.
What are opinions here?
Mongoose Traveller. It worked with Judge Dredd. It works with anything. Car chases are mostly plots-on-rails. So rules don't really apply to them. The rules apply to everything else going on in the game.
I've been puttering around with a Twilight 2000 inspired system just lately and Road Warrior type stuff is actually the first setting I've been working on.
But my personal pick right now would probably be Savage Worlds or Mercenaries Spies and Private Eyes.
Quote from: S'mon;836185There was a d20 Mad Max game called Redline. I don't know if it's still available anywhere.
I still have a copy of that. Did some quick and dirty Savage Worlds conversion notes this weekend (Xavier Onassis doesn't d20!) and then mashed it up with a mutant-psycher zombie apocalypse back-story.
Mad Max is even better when you've got hordes of chainsaw-wielding psycher zombie bikers charging across the wasteland!
Quote from: Premier;836136Other Dust is easily able to do this with minimal refitting - just decide what parts of the technological background are unwanted and maybe add some extra weapons, vehicles and the like that fit your theme & technological level.
I was thinking of doing something just like this with Other Dust and Engines of Babylon as an option for my sandbox. Stick with the low tech stuff and port over stats for the ballista for some giant vehicular crossbow action.
Quote from: Omega;836115Renegade Nuns on Wheels from the Macho Women With Guns series. Yes , it is a minis game disguised as a RPG. But it still fits.
What you really need is attitude on a basic framework, and this system has it in spades.
JG
Quote from: nezach;836665I was thinking of doing something just like this with Other Dust and Engines of Babylon as an option for my sandbox. Stick with the low tech stuff and port over stats for the ballista for some giant vehicular crossbow action.
Not fully relevant to the thread, but just earlier this spring I've run an Other Dust game at a local con, very much inspired by Mad Max. The PCs were in a
mostly Mad Max-tech level post-apocalyptic world, trying to rob a massive armoured train for its supplies with a truck, a technical, some building cover, and a group of mercenaries with two Hummvees whom they've recruited. It was fun, even though the final battle had to be cut a bit short due to time constraints. Anyway, some memorable lines:
Me drawing an abstract diagram: "And these two are flamethrowers atop the wagon cars, and THIS is a massive railcannon of some sort on the middle wagon..."
Players: "Oh, hoo-effing-ray"
Me: "...and this, this, this, this, this and THIS are machinegun nests..."
Players:
"'Nests'?!?!..."Then later
Me: "Turns out the engine sound coming from the hintermost wagon with the ramp was a tank..."
Players: Roll eyes.
Me: "... with a laser cannon."
Players: "..."
Another one been wanting to check out is Spirit of 77. With "Double Feature" modules like "Disco Ambulance and Womens Prison of the Apes". Seems to be a catchall 70s grindhouse system for shootouts and car chases.
Quote from: TristramEvans;836120007: James Bond. Because it has the best car chase system, and the rules cover everything else you'd need for the setting.
I had this game a very long time ago, before I sold it on ebay. I remember that it had a good car chase system, but can't remember what it was. Could it be possible, please, that you outline it there (or maybe scan/photo the relevant passage in the book)?
Then, concerning the OP question, the first idea that sprang to my mind was Savage Worlds.
There a bunch of games what can do Mad Max 1 - 3 well. For me though Fury Road has elevated vehicle combat to art. There was so much loving, attention to detail in the vehicle mods and assorted weaponry I am not sure more generic chase would do it justice. To put into context, I find even my own vehicle combat rules from Bounty Hunters of the Atomic Wastelands are not worthy of Mad Max Fury Road!
Going back to the original post, I would would not think ocTane a good match. The character "classes" are a clever, post-modern collection of pop culture cliches that don't map to Mad Max very well and the mechanics are very abstract; it's a win dice roll and narrate what happens, sort of system. That's not always a bad thing but I feel Fury Road vehicle combat would benefit for a little crunch.
I'll second (or third?) Atomic Highway for Mad Max-style roleplaying. Easy system, flexible charatcer creation, easy to scale up/down when it comes to gonzo/mutations/whatnot at yes, a decent chase and vehicle combat system.
Spycraft
Would work very well for any Post-Apoc Mad Max style game.
Quote from: Turanil;836742I had this game a very long time ago, before I sold it on ebay. I remember that it had a good car chase system, but can't remember what it was. Could it be possible, please, that you outline it there (or maybe scan/photo the relevant passage in the book)?
Not at home right now, but the chase rules were a bidding system. I'm relatively certain theres a retroclone of the game free online somewhere, will look later.
If you want something very tactile you might try adapting Iron Kingdoms. They have some interesting movement rules but there is a lot of setting in the classes that will need to be dismissed.
That said, Apocalypse World would be my first choice here. If you are looking at recreating the feel of the movies I think the engine is really designed to emulate this genre.
After the Bomb: Road Hogs
We're currently using Fate Core. The contest rules work nicely for chases, and it's easy to make vehicles either very important to the story, or merely set-dressing for the action sequences.
I got GURPS Autoduel when it was first in print, thinking it would be fun to play out the original Mad Max and Road Warrior type of car combat. I love GURPS, but I didn't get very far, because as you wrote, Car Wars is more about futuristic cars with turrets, than it is about trying to knock over other vehicles while keeping your own intact. It also wasn't very grainy for modelling say the difference between a V8 Interceptor and some mid-size junker, nor the skill of faking someone out and making them crash, or contests of nudging but not crashing, and so on.
GURPS Vehicles 3e has more than enough grain, but is also a crazy detailed framework for also making planes and submarines and so on, and still not really a lot of grain for what Mad Max focusses on. And even I find it difficult to figure out the mechanics.
Since I'm a GURPS nut, I might still use GURPS, but I'd probably end up using my own house rules. I'd watch the films and come up with something that feels right for everything there, but I'm afraid I'd be hard-pressed to come up with GURPS Tactical (hex-based) rules - I'd probably have to fall back to narrative choices, which is something that GURPS Lensman does in its mass combat rules, where you have states such as A is tailgating B - A can choose to push B off balance, build up speed and ram, try to PIT B, or try to pull alongside, and B can to try to outrun, slam on the brakes, or sideswipe - each involves die rolls based on driving skill, speed, mass, engine power, car agility, etc, with certain results for different levels of success or failure.
I'd still use a hex map and use normal GURPS rules for combat between passengers, etc, but the movement of the vehicles would be based on those descriptive states and options, which would determine where the cars can move relative to each other. Usually the cars are keeping pace with each other, and so movements are small relative adjustments, instead of laying out a massive map and moving each car across it. A separate map would track where the group is, and where terrain and independently-moving units are.
Of course, if _I_ were running Mad Max: Fury Road, it'd be sort of a parody game, where the tactics seen in the film would tend to have serious risks and consequences. Jumping motorcycles over a rig to drop molotov cocktails on it would not be 100% effective as in the film, and the guys riding on bendy poles attached to speeding ram vehicles would tend to have problems, and the people climbing on the hoods of cars to spit extra gas into the engine air intakes would have to roll not to fall off, and the benefits would not tend to be significant. Etc. It'd probably be likely to all be over pretty quick, too due to some awful collision or something.
Quote from: DMK;836912We're currently using Fate Core. The contest rules work nicely for chases, and it's easy to make vehicles either very important to the story, or merely set-dressing for the action sequences.
Does "Psychotic Australian" count as an Aspect if everybody has it?
JG
Here we go, 007 Retroclone:
Double Zero (https://www.scribd.com/doc/100091930/Double-Zero-Srd)
Quote from: Skarg;837086I got GURPS Autoduel when it was first in print, thinking it would be fun to play out the original Mad Max and Road Warrior type of car combat.
I got into GURPS because I found GURPS Autoduel (2nd ed.) in a bookstore. I knew that Car Wars was in no way a Road Warrior style game due to playing the grid-n-chit game in the 80s. Electric engines and plastic armor? Forgetaboutit. There was that boxed set, Dueltrack, which seemed to be an attempt to cover that genre, but it got little support in the line and wasn't mentioned in the GURPS supplement at all.
If GURPS Autoduel had been truly an attempt to make a Generic, Universal worldbook I'd agree it could be a good basis for a Mad Max game. But, as I remember it, it was only really useful for recreating the assumptions of Car Wars in GURPS terms. Maybe that's just a testament to my lack of imagination. I have a friend who maintains he used Car Wars in a Gamma World based Road Warrior game so that might be more true than I care to cop to.
You're right, nezach. When I bought GURPS Autoduel, I didn't know what the Car Wars universe and technology were like, and found what you're talking about - an RPG worldbook for a world designed to explain and support Car Wars arena combats with electric cars with plastic armor that mainly fight by having all sorts of ranged weapons mounted on them. And cloning and mind tapes so you can die in the arena and then come back to die again. All of which blocked my hope of doing something like The Road Warrior. There is a Car Wars module for older cars with gasoline engines, but I doubt it really supports using them for high-speed car fencing ala the Mad Max etc.
I've always been disappointed with the decision to make the weapons substandard sports versions instead of military hardware in GURPS Autoduel second edition (for third edition). I mean I understand why in GURPS Vehicle terms but it just undermines the whole concept.
Anyhow Autoduel America isn't a post apocalyse setting, it's a cyberpunk dystopia that's focussed on a specific death sport and parodies American car culture.
Man, just saying that makes me want to run it so much.
Quote from: David Johansen;837381I've always been disappointed with the decision to make the weapons substandard sports versions instead of military hardware in GURPS Autoduel second edition (for third edition). I mean I understand why in GURPS Vehicle terms but it just undermines the whole concept.
Anyhow Autoduel America isn't a post apocalyse setting, it's a cyberpunk dystopia that's focussed on a specific death sport and parodies American car culture.
Man, just saying that makes me want to run it so much.
Maybe because when military weapons are used on civilian cars, the cars get destroyed really quickly? Of course, they could restrict which weapons are allowed (perhaps by league) rather than say there are substandard sports versions.
(My version of parody of the part of American car culture that involves thinking cars, trucks, and RV's are big and tough, involves them being taken out in single collisions or weapon hits.)
Quote from: Skarg;837517Maybe because when military weapons are used on civilian cars, the cars get destroyed really quickly? Of course, they could restrict which weapons are allowed (perhaps by league) rather than say there are substandard sports versions.
(My version of parody of the part of American car culture that involves thinking cars, trucks, and RV's are big and tough, involves them being taken out in single collisions or weapon hits.)
Yeah, we tinkered around with this in my old AADA chapter. One of my friends decided to have a "Big League Unlimited Dueling" (BLUD) event, with RV's, trucks, trailers, and military weapons. I used an ADQ article with optional rules for spinal mounting military guns on normal-sized vehicles, and figured out a way to cram tank guns into three gas-powered luxury cars. Outmaneuvered the hell out of everyone.
Quote from: Certified;836785That said, Apocalypse World would be my first choice here. If you are looking at recreating the feel of the movies I think the engine is really designed to emulate this genre.
LOL
"Hey let's do a 3 hour fight scene with a game that gets fights over in 2 rolls"
Anyway:
Here's a complete 5e/Atomic Highway Mad Max-specific hack complete with new cars and stuff on http://dndwithpornstars.blogspot.com/2015/05/maximum-road-5eatomic-highway-postapoc.html
Quote from: James Gillen;837145Does "Psychotic Australian" count as an Aspect if everybody has it?
JG
That's more of a setting aspect: "Psychotic Australians Everywhere!" ;)
To an extent Shadowrun (no matter which edition) can model Mad Max.
Just ignore the races or use them as mechanics for different characters.
Quote from: James Gillen;837145Does "Psychotic Australian" count as an Aspect if everybody has it?
JG
This should be amended to "Post Apocalypse Australian" as the psychotic is implied by simply saying Australian. :)
Quote from: Jame Rowe;837986To an extent Shadowrun (no matter which edition) can model Mad Max.
Just ignore the races or use them as mechanics for different characters.
Car chase rules are kind of a pain to follow in Shadowrun.
I picked up Atomic Highway and am looking into it now. (Thanks for the link, Zak.)
I'm also looking at Macho Women With Guns, one of my favorite post-apocalyptic games - though it is more tongue-in-cheek than Mad Max at base.
Quote from: jhkim;838101I'm also looking at Macho Women With Guns, one of my favorite post-apocalyptic games - though it is more tongue-in-cheek than Mad Max at base.
Apparently you saw a different Mad Max than I did.
JG
Quote from: James Gillen;838280Apparently you saw a different Mad Max than I did.
JG
From some of the reactions to the film there seem to be a few different versions floating around out there.
There was a D20 mini-game, not Omega World; I don't remember if it was in polyhedron or something independent. I remember it was pretty close to what I'd figure for Mad Max...
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;838011Car chase rules are kind of a pain to follow in Shadowrun.
Maybe. I haven't really run Shadowrun as much as I'd like.
Quote from: Moracai;836195Car Wars by Steve Jackson Games. The one with pedestrian rules.
OK, now I have seen Fury Road multiple times! :D
I did some research and found out that your vanilla Car Wars was not suitable for Mad Max at all, but there's no need for despair. There is somewhere an expansion called Chassis & Crossbows that remedies the situation nicely.
And of course it would need a game mechanic for those "Witness me!" types of situations.
Quote from: Moracai;841124I did some research and found out that your vanilla Car Wars was not suitable for Mad Max at all
This is the first I've ever heard this.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;841126This is the first I've ever heard this.
I didn't remember it at first, but as I started re-reading my Deluxe Edition, I noticed that there are electric engines, computer controlled turrets, plastic armor and so on. It is very much set in a more advanced environment than where Mad Max takes place.
Quote from: Moracai;841140I didn't remember it at first, but as I started re-reading my Deluxe Edition, I noticed that there are electric engines, computer controlled turrets, plastic armor and so on. It is very much set in a more advanced environment than where Mad Max takes place.
There are gasoline rules in later editions. But they have nothing to do with the game overall. Cars are still just cars no matter how they go. Do D&D players really care how dragons spit fire?
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;841142There are gasoline rules in later editions. But they have nothing to do with the game overall. Cars are still just cars no matter how they go. Do D&D players really care how dragons spit fire?
But of course some D&D players care how dragons spit fire! :D
The later rules you to refer also have rules for metal armor, which behave quite differently from the plastic ones that vanilla CW simulates. Also lasers and other such high tech weaponry which are present in normal CW do not have a place in Mad Max, IMHO. And I could give other examples how Chassis & Crossbow alternative CW rules fit much better with Mad Max than basic CW (like non-computer controlled turrets I previously mentioned), but I would appreciate if you'd take my word for it.
But you're right in that cars is cars. They all tend to have four tyres and a steering wheel, but many of them are better purposed for some uses than others.
Edit - ok, here are a few snippets that I found that are relevant to the question at hand:
"Gunners only take up one space in these older vehicles, because the fancy targeting equipment that takes up all that room in modern vehicles doesn't exist in these vehicles."
"Very few vehicular weapons are available, and those that are can't usually be aimed like basic Car Wars weapons. Instead, the weapons are mounted fixed to the chassis."
"Without big-time military or underworld connections, the only weapons players can find easily are of the hand weapon variety."
"The Oil Jet and Spikedropper are the only vehicular weapons from basic Car Wars that are readily available"
"Much of the combat in "Chassis & Crossbow" will involve hand weapons"
Ah, interesting!
I found these on the SJG web site search from "Chassis & Crossbows":
http://www.sjgames.com/car-wars/games/dueltrack/
http://www.warehouse23.com/products/adq-number-1-slash-3
I guess these would be all the rules for that (plus you need one of the CW books Car Wars Classic, Car Wars Compendium, or Car Wars Deluxe Edition).
That Dueltrack thing is based on the Autoduel Quarterly article, but written for the Deluxe edition, which I think is the most common. At least around here parts it is.
Quote from: Moracai;841124And of course it would need a game mechanic for those "Witness me!" types of situations.
WITNESS ME!!!
There is a special rule in effect that enables characters about to die or go unconscious, to try to perform some remarkable feat before dying in a blaze of glory. Any character who takes 2 or 3 points of damage may try to invoke the gods of Battle and perform some kind of stunt that results in his death, but has severe consequences for the enemy forces as well. After the player(s) has figured out what he wishes to happen, the referee assigns the action a difficulty between 6 and 11. If a 2d6 roll equals or beats the number the feat is successful. If not, the character remains unspectacularly dead or unconscious, depending on how much damage the character has taken.
Note that this rule never comes into play when a character takes only one point of damage. Weaklings keeling over from such weak blows are not worthy of Valhalla. Nor does it apply to those that take 4 or more damage, as the character's body is pretty much splattered over the landscape and nothing can be done at that point.
Remember kids, body armor is for pussies!Car Wars characters have three 'hit points'. Wounded, unconscious and dead.
Quote from: Moracai;841417Car Wars characters have three 'hit points'. Wounded, unconscious and dead.
Hard to shoot yourself dead with a pistol.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;841440Hard to shoot yourself dead with a pistol.
It's not even hard, it's impossible! :D
But this is a wargame with a referee in it we're talking about. And we've all seen from Old Geezer's posts what the job of the referee is. To make calls that override rules that are stupid.
In a system with levels, this is what a first level character would look like. :D