What are the best rules set(s) you've come across for sci-fi RPGs?
Traveller d20 had the best rules I've come across so far, but they were far from perfect. The skill system was good, as was the class-based feats. And I loved a lot of what they did with the prior careers system -- though it had the inherent Traveller wonkiness (one guy has 1000 CR and a gun; another has 400kCr and a spaceship).
The thing I think I liked the most, though, was the lack of game balance. While I think it would be better if the material rewards (money, stuff) was a little more evenly distributed, I really like how characters can have different levels of skill and ability. Hell, if you want to have a character as an absolute n00b (1st level), you can do that. Or you can have a grizzled veteran. It really opens up the story possibilities, 'cause not everyone is going to have the same abilities.
I have to say old school Traveller was the scifi ruleset that I liked best. Star Wars d6 was nice.
One that I've seen harshly criticized, and I don't think it entirely deserves it, is the old Buck Rogers XXVc game. It was based on AD&D. I never thought it was all that bad. Not perfect, but not bad. Too often I feel people get it into their heads that they dislike something or feel it isn't appropriate for a certain genre, and just won't give the actual game a chance. Much of the setting info was stupid, but I did like the concept of Gennies quite a bit. No Humans Allowed is a book I still look at fondly for ideas.
I never even looked at Buck Rogers -- no interest in the setting.
I never played the oldest Traveller, but I played Megatraveller which, I believe, was pretty similar. It was okay, but not stellar.
Cyberpunk's Interlock wasn't bad. Fuzion got a bit too points based.
new shadowrun dicepool....its stat plus skill in dice, remove dice for penalties and roll what you got left. of course im a pool fan myself, though some people cant stand pools.
Much love for original Traveller here.
Adventure!
:p
Interlock/Fuzion are pretty nice systems which could do with a little polish. They're pretty universal systems though - they could just as well be used for a fantasy campaign I imagine.
Silhouette and Shadowrun (4.0) are two of my favorites. I'm still a big fan of Spycraft too. Dark Conspiracy had some great concepts behind it and really let you make all tiers of characters, but the combat was bleh.
It has been years hell a decade since I have used them but I also enjoyed the old Traveler system.
I like Alternity, and it's still my system of choice for sci-fi/modern games. I have been considering stealing the chargen system from Traveller The New Era and adapting it to Alternity, but never got around to doing it.
The ship combat system rules in the original Star Trek FASA game was everything that a sci-fi ship combat system should be, and more. Yeah, I can see the geeky need have rules for ships "sliding" and all other kinds of rules that make sense in the real world but are boring.as.hell. to implement.
In Star Trek you had the engineer who doled out power points to each of the systems. Putting "all power to the shields" actually meant something! Damn, I wish someone would invent a Star Wars ship combat system that that captivates the feel of the game as well while being fun and simple.
Quote from: King_StannisIn Star Trek you had the engineer who doled out power points to each of the systems. Putting "all power to the shields" actually meant something!
Have you ever played Starfleet Battles?
Quote from: King_StannisDamn, I wish someone would invent a Star Wars ship combat system that that captivates the feel of the game as well while being fun and simple.
I've been running a Star Wars game lately using an on-going home-made conversion to the Spycraft 2.0 rules.
Spycraft's chase rules are absolutely perfect for modelling the sort of dog-fighting starship combat your see in Start Wars... fairly simple and exciting.
Quote from: CyclotronHave you ever played Starfleet Battles?
SFB is a great game. But it's rather complex for an rpg and doesn't give much for characters other than the captain to do, other than be the occasional die modifier.
From what I remember of FASA's rules, they were simple but captured most of the flavor.
Quote from: NicephorusSFB is a great game. But it's rather complex for an rpg and doesn't give much for characters other than the captain to do, other than be the occasional die modifier.
Oh, I know, I was just mulling over the
"Yeah, I can see the geeky need have rules for ships "sliding" and all other kinds of rules that make sense in the real world but are boring.as.hell. to implement." comment.
Full Thrust is a good scifi starship combat game that could be used for RPGs. Matter of fact, the creator of Full Thrust worked up a nice variant of it for Chamelon Eclectic's Babylon 5 RPG. It appears in the Earthforce Sourcebook for that game, which is tough to find. Full Thrust and its supplements are available for free download here:
http://www.gtns.co.uk/store1/commerce.cgi?page=downloads.html&cart_id=6759723.14734
Star Frontiers or Alternity for my votes.
I've played and enjoyed Star Frontiers, Gamma World, Traveller, and Hero System sci-fi games. I'd have to say that Hero mashes the other systems in terms of robust rules.
As far as space combat goes, I'd say Star Fleet Battles is best if you can stomach the rules density. I'd prefer a more rules-light space combat system for an RPG.
Quote from: Vermicious KnidAs far as space combat goes, I'd say Star Fleet Battles is best if you can stomach the rules density. I'd prefer a more rules-light space combat system for an RPG.
That and the fact that potentially takes
hours of gameplay to resolve a single combat.
Quote from: CyclotronOh, I know, I was just mulling over the "Yeah, I can see the geeky need have rules for ships "sliding" and all other kinds of rules that make sense in the real world but are boring.as.hell. to implement." comment.
Every implementation of space combat I've ever seen in an RPG (except for the FASA "Trek")ends up being needlessly complex. Alternity was a hopeless mishmash of...god...I'm not sure what it was. It wasn't fun, that's for sure.
Star Wars D20 actually tries to do a few things right, but again it seems needlessly confusing. I would rather have a fun, easy-to-learn and slightly unrealistic system than one that strives for realism at the expense of a simple, good time.
To answer your question, by the way, no - I never did play SF battles. Just the RPG space battle system. I have no doubt SF battles was a good game, but when you sit down to play that you know you are doing a strategic battle game and expect it to be complex. That's different than an RPG in my book.
Quote from: CyclotronThat and the fact that potentially takes hours of gameplay to resolve a single combat.
Which is cool if you got together to run a space battle, not so cool if you have some roleplaying you'd like to do.
Quote from: Vermicious KnidWhich is cool if you got together to run a space battle, not so cool if you have some roleplaying you'd like to do.
Pretty Much.
SFB is a really good game that's very complex. A big battle of a dozenTrek style ships on each side could take 20+ hours to play out. Even a one on one could take an hour.
Quote from: NicephorusPretty Much.
SFB is a really good game that's very complex. A big battle of a dozenTrek style ships on each side could take 20+ hours to play out. Even a one on one could take an hour.
The Starfleet Command computer games used the SFB rules, and it made for an excellent PC game... Very much the Star Trek "tall sailing ships in space" style of combat.
Quote from: King_StannisStar Wars D20 actually tries to do a few things right, but again it seems needlessly confusing. I would rather have a fun, easy-to-learn and slightly unrealistic system than one that strives for realism at the expense of a simple, good time.
Which SW D20 system? The first go around had a pretty simple, abstract space combat system and everybody complained. The revised rules have a more traditional grid-based system, that kind of sucks the fun out of it.
Again, I'd recommend the Spycraft 2.0 chase system. It's a fairly abstract system involving opposed drive/pilot checks between the "Predator" and the "Prey", but it'll emulate any space combat scene you see in any of the movies.
My favorite is Classic Traveller, with a fondness for GURPS Space as well.
I'm very much looking forward to All Tomorrow's Zombies for Unisystem.
Star HERO. It covers the sci-fi genre better than pretty much any other sci-fi game around.
Quote from: Lisa NadazdyStar HERO. It covers the sci-fi genre better than pretty much any other sci-fi game around.
What's funny about this is that I was just reading a post on one of the ten million message boards I look at lately, and somebody was saying how HERO is good for supers games but pretty much sucks for everything else. But this pretty much confirms, once again, that it's all very subjective. What might suck for one person may be the perfect game for another.
Quote from: ColonelHardissonWhat's funny about this is that I was just reading a post on one of the ten million message boards I look at lately, and somebody was saying how HERO is good for supers games but pretty much sucks for everything else. But this pretty much confirms, once again, that it's all very subjective. What might suck for one person may be the perfect game for another.
Bingo! :D
-mice
Quote from: ColonelHardissonWhat's funny about this is that I was just reading a post on one of the ten million message boards I look at lately, and somebody was saying how HERO is good for supers games but pretty much sucks for everything else. But this pretty much confirms, once again, that it's all very subjective. What might suck for one person may be the perfect game for another.
There are some people that have exact opposite opinion- that HERO sucks at supers but is great for everything else. Personally, I think HERO can do damn near every genre, but I'd probably use something else for supers (I lean towards Cartoon Action Hour, myself).
I hear good things about Hard Nova II gor general SF use and think Cold Space is damn spiffy myself (albeit far more specific of purpose and tone)
Quote from: CyclotronThe Starfleet Command computer games used the SFB rules, and it made for an excellent PC game... Very much the Star Trek "tall sailing ships in space" style of combat.
I saw that but never got around to buying it.
SFB's style is kinda a mix of Napoleonic era ships and WWI and WWII ships. SFB was preceded by Battlewagon, about WWI and WWII ships. From it, you can clearly see how SFB came about.
I'm intrigued by the new game Federation Commander. It's a streamlined and simplified version of SFB. But it uses miniatures which makes it moderatly expensive to buy into.
Quote from: CyclotronWhich SW D20 system? The first go around had a pretty simple, abstract space combat system and everybody complained. The revised rules have a more traditional grid-based system, that kind of sucks the fun out of it.
I had the OCR space rules, and the problem wasn't that they were abstract. The problem was that they were retarded. Okay, so instead of a grid we'll use what looks like a ship's radar screen. Cool idea, but how is that going to work? I mean it would work okay for 1 vs 1, or even a PC ship against swarms of TIEs or something. But what if two PCs are in different ships in the same fight? How do actions on one ship's 'screen' affect the other? For that matter what if the PCs go at it? Could happen. I didn't see any way around this and trying to figure it out made my brain melt.
Maybe without the little 'radar screen' it would have worked better, but it just confused the heck out of everyone involved. Opposed rolls for a dogfight like you're talking about sound a lot better.
To be honest, I've never seen a sci fi rules set I really liked. I mean Star Wars is serviceable, for Star Wars, but there are still things about it that bug me. And it's fairly setting specific. Yanking droids and X-wings and jedis and droids out to make a generic system would be a fair bit of work.