^ This.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1136994I notice some new bloods are making games to compete against WoD without being woke.  If you cannot wait for them I suggest you get Chronicles of Darkness, but only first edition books.  Back when it was called New World of Darkness.

What new games? I'd love to look into these.

There's also Urban Shadows.

Quote from: Batjon;1137085What new games? I'd love to look into these.

Check out Nightshift.  It is OSR that allows you play as monsters.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1136913I highly recommend Palladium's Nightbane.

The chargen alone is worth the ride. You can be a were-motorcycle.

Not kidding.

THIS.

Also, fold in Ninjas & Superspies and Mystic China for the full Palladium experience.

If you like Werewolf there's also Bite Marks.

https://gnomestew.com/bite-marks-review/

I guess to answer this question, we need to know what you like about WoD and what you don't like about WoD. If there is just some woke setting element, it might just be easiest to toss it out and keep the rest of the game. If you just want to be able play any sort of urban horror or fantasy creature, then maybe some kind of generic system might be best.

Quote from: ShieldWife;1137552I guess to answer this question, we need to know what you like about WoD and what you don't like about WoD. If there is just some woke setting element, it might just be easiest to toss it out and keep the rest of the game. If you just want to be able play any sort of urban horror or fantasy creature, then maybe some kind of generic system might be best.

I don't like the Cain mythology about the origin of vampires.  I like good mythology sometimes but not this one.  I like the political machinations between the clans the unique nature of the clans.  A little bit of metaplot is ok, but VtM has MASSIVE amounts of metaplot and too many NPCs important to it all to keep track of.  I like a good focus to be on the inner beast and the struggle to hold onto whatever sliver of humanity you can and dealings with mortals as well.  I feel VtM really skips over dealing and co-existing with mortals a lot to focus entirely on clan/sect squabling.  I'd like to see more dealing with mortals and even romance.

Have you checked out V5? It addresses many of your issues I think.

There's The Everlasting, which was originally written by a WW freelancer to compete with it. It uses the same rules for everything, so crossover is pretty easy. You can buy all the books from drivethru except the Magician's Companion. It's probably the most WoD-like game out there.

Right now there isn't really any RPG that competes with the WW games in terms of monsters and politics like you seem to want. I too wish there was a competitor, and have tried world building in the past. The last campaign setting I tried to build was basically a variation on Urban Arcana, with the urban fantasy characters being alien immigrants from various fantasy settings.

I did settle upon an idea that I should have a while ago. You know how Mage had this concept of magic styles that used the same rules to support concepts as varied as cyborgs, time travelers, and knights templars? There's no reason you couldn't apply the same logic to every splat. Vampires that feed on emotions, werewolves that serve the Christian God, etc.

Although at this point you might be better off using a generic system like GURPS. I don't know.

Quote from: Batjon;1137568I don't like the Cain mythology about the origin of vampires.  I like good mythology sometimes but not this one.  I like the political machinations between the clans the unique nature of the clans.  A little bit of metaplot is ok, but VtM has MASSIVE amounts of metaplot and too many NPCs important to it all to keep track of.  I like a good focus to be on the inner beast and the struggle to hold onto whatever sliver of humanity you can and dealings with mortals as well.  I feel VtM really skips over dealing and co-existing with mortals a lot to focus entirely on clan/sect squabling.  I'd like to see more dealing with mortals and even romance.

It actually sounds like you could just play V:tM with a few minor tweaks and that would solve your problems. I have been with plenty of gaming groups who modified their WoD as much or more than you're requesting.

I agree with ShieldWife. V:tM using just the corebook negates the metaplot and instead, you can keep the conflicts and NPCs local. Metaplot sells books, but its rarely useful for actual play. The only NPCs who matter are those who interact with the PCs. The issues of the wider world are mostly just background. Think Batman and Gotham.

As for involvement with mortals, that's easy enough to create on your own and tailor it specifically to your local setting and the interests of the other players. Mortals should be a constant threat yet vampires should be drawn to them for more than just food.

I've played and run Nightbane and Werewolf much more than Vampire (which I mostly LARPed), but the concepts are similar. One of the best things I did as a GM was have the PCs be tied to the mortal world through their past mortal life. I got this heavily from the Spawn comics. Spawn may live in a dumpster and battle angels and demons, but he also has to protect his ex-wife, his daughter and his blind grandma. And of course, various elements of his "human life" get caught up in the various supernatural threads as well. It's especially fun when you have a mix of dumb, cunning and smart mortals.

Also, the fate of the mortals and the town/city has to matter to the PCs...for whatever reason. Like superheroes, the monsters of WoD are the protectors (though Vampires are both protector and predator) because the whole point of playing an anti-hero is you are a bad thing, but you fight worse things.

I would recommend a custom V:tM setting... But! By the sounds of it, you want a complete RPG with a setting that you don't have to write up yourself. Tough choice.

Quote from: Batjon;1137568I don't like the Cain mythology about the origin of vampires.  I like good mythology sometimes but not this one.  I like the political machinations between the clans the unique nature of the clans.  A little bit of metaplot is ok, but VtM has MASSIVE amounts of metaplot and too many NPCs important to it all to keep track of.  I like a good focus to be on the inner beast and the struggle to hold onto whatever sliver of humanity you can and dealings with mortals as well.  I feel VtM really skips over dealing and co-existing with mortals a lot to focus entirely on clan/sect squabling.  I'd like to see more dealing with mortals and even romance.

Feed by Whistlepunk Games is a good alternative that addresses most of these specific complaints. It puts the struggle between humanity and vampirism at the forefront by building the mechanics from the ground up around that. It's also free, so you can check it out without investing a cent.

It doesn't have as detailed settings, but it has several sample settings and is generally chock full of interesting ideas. You can even easily adapt the VtM setting or bits thereof because the rules are so flexible.