Alright, ladies and gentlemen, I have a question - got any good Post - Apo RPG suggestions? I've been mostly using Polish RPG Neuroshima, but well, it's really poor, and I'd rather shift.
I prefer RPGs with low to medium crunch - that's why I abandoned trying to get into Wasteland, as it was just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too crunchy for me.
Suggestions? I need an RPG, or at least a good mechanic base, for a rather serious and tragic Post - Apo, so more "gonzo" mechanics and RPGs are out.
Quote from: Rincewind1;508840I prefer RPGs with low to medium crunch
Suggestions? I need an RPG, or at least a good mechanic base, for a rather serious and tragic Post - Apo, so more "gonzo" mechanics and RPGs are out.
I'm going to recommend Barbarians of the Aftermath.
It adds some complexity to the vanilla BoL mechanics - I would describe it as medium crunchy.
The game takes a toolkit approach, allowing you to set the dials on your own setting. It pretty much lets you fine tune the overall mood to anything between relentlessly grim and uber gonzo.
FYI - You need the BoL rules
and the BotA book to play.
Hawkmoon
Quote from: Rincewind1;508840Suggestions? I need an RPG, or at least a good mechanic base, for a rather serious and tragic Post - Apo, so more "gonzo" mechanics and RPGs are out.
Ah, too bad, I would have recommended After the Bomb.
Atomic Highway. Its a bit cinematic, but it plays very smoothly and is definitely designed for a Mad Max/Book of Eli feel.
(of course with MUTANTS!)
Since you're on an Old School kick with OSRIC, you might want to look into Aftermath, Morrow Project, Twilight 2000 or Living Steel. All of those games, though, are probably too high into the crunch factor.
You mention no Gonzo, but Deadlands: Hell on Earth, After the Bomb, and Rifts can be serious despite things like mutants, magic, etc.
For D&D Post-Apoc there's Mutant Future and Darwin's World.
Atomic Highway is good, but cinematic might not be what you need if you're going On the Beach with it.
I second Atomic Highway. Great game.
I have a strange relationship with post-apocalyptic RPGs.
Rifts is the only PA game that I've played for any significant length of time, but I consider it a cross-genre everything-goes RPG that happens to be set on a magic-flooded, post-apocalyptic Earth (as opposed to game that's about exploring the ruins of Old Earth and the new civilizations rising out of its ashes).
I'd go out on a limb and venture that, in a similar vein, Hawkmoon is a fantasy RPG that happens to be set on a post-apocalyptic Earth. There's firelances and automated defence towers and mutant flamingo riders.
PA settings like Gamma World or After The Bomb or Mutant Future definitely feel PA, in that exploring the ruined Earth gets a lot of attention, and day-to-day survival isn't guaranteed, but their particular brand of gonzo does nothing for me.
I've run some zombie apocalypse stuffand I like it, because it's mostly set close to our own day, resulting in stronger player identification with the collapsed civilization, and its artifacts, not to mention with characters and their struggle to remain alive.
I'd love to see a gritty PA game. Twilight: 2000 has an interesting premise but I've heard horrible things about the system (maybe pick it up and convert to BRP?). I know next to nothing about Atomic Highway, but if it's anything like Mad Max and On The Road, it's got my attention, though I'd prefer a grittier system (again, convert to BRP?).
Shit, that was rather unhelpful, wasn't it? :o
Atomic Highway is both 'cinematic' (you can pull crazy stunts) and 'gritty' (in that it's easy to die once your fountune points run out - and they will). It's rules light while still having a solid engine. You can ignore the whole mutant thing if you wish (I did) and just have a human survivor story.
It doesn't have much backstory fluff - or make that any! It assumes that GMs/groups are able to come up with their own AP background themselves, so it that way it's very old school. It plays better than it reads and the V6 system is surprisingly subtle. I've run some great games with this and the rulebook is pleasingly short but complete.
And it's also FREE!!!!
Colin Chapman has made the rule book pdf available for free download on DriveThruRPG:
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=3009&products_id=70124&affiliate_id=10761
Check out the Radio Active Ape forums to see what other people have done with it - both running RAW and adapting it for other genres:
http://forums.radioactiveapedesigns.com/
Lots of good stealable stuff there
Have a look at Precis Intermedia's EarthAD.2. I'd say it fits your requirements quite nicely. Pundit did a review of it on this very site.
Twilight: 2000. It's set in your neighborhood, for crying out loud!
Quote from: CRKrueger;508894Since you're on an Old School kick with OSRIC, you might want to look into Aftermath, Morrow Project, Twilight 2000 or Living Steel. All of those games, though, are probably too high into the crunch factor.
You mention no Gonzo, but Deadlands: Hell on Earth, After the Bomb, and Rifts can be serious despite things like mutants, magic, etc.
For D&D Post-Apoc there's Mutant Future and Darwin's World.
Atomic Highway is good, but cinematic might not be what you need if you're going On the Beach with it.
I have Aftermath (just called it Wasteland for a bizarre reason), but it's Crunch Ultra - Heavy. I heard good things about it though.
So far it seems like either Aftermath!, Atomic Highway (which I'll need to buy I guess) or BRP conversion.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;508985Twilight: 2000. It's set in your neighborhood, for crying out loud!
It's Crunch - Tastic though. If I'm gonna use a very complicated ruleset, might as well go with Aftermath! - I want to design my own apocalypse, so to speak.
Is their a PA hack for Savage Worlds (aside from the ragnarock thing, I mean)?
Quote from: Rincewind1;508986It's Crunch - Tastic though. If I'm gonna use a very complicated ruleset, might as well go with Aftermath! - I want to design my own apocalypse, so to speak.
1st edition Twilight 2000 is not very complicated. Maybe you're thinking of the 2nd edition, which used the GDW house system.
Quote from: Aos;509003Is their a PA hack for Savage Worlds (aside from the ragnarock thing, I mean)?
Darwin's World has a SW version.
Quote from: Rincewind1;508840I prefer RPGs with low to medium crunch - that's why I abandoned trying to get into Wasteland, as it was just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too crunchy for me.
Fighting Fantasy is
post-manapocalypse (Titan had a huge wizard's war less than 300 years ago, which accounts for some of the wierdness across the world); however, it's not really explained in any of the core RPG books, but in the world sourcebook (Titan).
It's also had enough time to recover, so it's not as dark a setting as you may like; there isn't very much silly though (It comes from the same 80's UK culture as WFRP1) and you could play in a less-civilised area of the world, although it's still explicitly a fantasy game. System-wise, though, it's dead simple; 2d6 + mods vs target number.
I recommend Barbarians of the Aftermath
As someone who has both run and played Atomic Highway I would suggest passing on it as the rules are pretty broken, the worst part is in the area of dodging.
Quote from: Daedalus;509081I recommend Barbarians of the Aftermath
As someone who has both run and played Atomic Highway I would suggest passing on it as the rules are pretty broken, the worst part is in the area of dodging.
Could you explain further, maybe with an example?
Really pick whatever modern RPG you like and use that.
I'd probably use the Storyteller system with mortal PCs; completely ignore the vampires or werewolves or whatever and make human PCs. It'd give you all the modern stuff rules you need (guns and skills and stuff), is reasonably light, and the merits/flaws are aimed at being grimdark. Main drawback being that it'd be quite deadly and healing would take ages.
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;509164I'd probably use the Storyteller system with mortal PCs; completely ignore the vampires or werewolves or whatever and make human PCs. It'd give you all the modern stuff rules you need (guns and skills and stuff), is reasonably light, and the merits/flaws are aimed at being grimdark. Main drawback being that it'd be quite deadly and healing would take ages.
I tried that - didn't work out for me.
I guess I'll just use BRP or Mini6 - there's a Mini6 free Eclipse Phase conversion on RPG.net, which may be quite useful, as I play the Post Apocalypse turn later into Cyberpunk, when PCs will reach a lost "utopia" in the wastes.
Traveller.
We tried Twilight 2000 and some of the players just hated the crunch, so I used the 3 LBBs, Mercenary and Citizens of the Imperium. It was easy to eliminate anything over Tech 7 and voila! We had our easy system, high death rate, guns are scary, T2k campaign.
BRP has a monograph out called 'Rubble and Ruin' that is PA... though I know little about it (despite having bought a copy).
I suspect I'd just as soon do Twilight 2000 with a BRP... I've always wanted to game in that setting.
Quote from: CRKrueger;509118Could you explain further, maybe with an example?
I respect Daedulus viewpoint, but I don't agree with it. IIRC it was the dodging was too easy. Of course you can dodge only so many attacks/people a round, and the game does allow people to fight groups (using the Fortune points or whatever--I've been running Hellas lately and it has five different kinds of points so exact name may be off.)
Of course if you did get hit it tends to get lethal real fast. It fits the "action movie" apocalypse well, but keeps it gritty enough that heroes can and will die.
I would like to do an After the Bomb TMNT game again someday.
...
The 35 tonne bulk of the M1A2 rolled across a rough, fallow field in Central Poland. From a distance, the tank looked like a figure-skater, gliding across the ice. Inside the vehicle, however, the crew's point of view was different. Five years of near-constant combat, few breaks for depot-level repairs and a general loosening of every nut, bolt, torsion bar and slip-gear made the inside of the Abrams rattle like a castanet. However, the worst was yet to come.
"GUNNER - TANK - FRONT LEFT - 11 O'CLOCK!" Lieutenant Murchison yelled over the high-pitched shriek of the alcohol-fueled turbine and the general racket of metal fittings shaking inside the armored turret. The yelling was no adrenaline fueled bravado - months ago a nearby tactical nuclear strike had damaged the tank's intercom system with a burst of electromagnetic interference, and the crew had no chance to repair the delicate electronics before things worsened on the broad front between NATO and the Warsaw Pact forces.
"TARGET! LOADER, SABOT!" Kelly called back to Czerwinski, the Polish national who rounded out the tank's fighting crew. Taylor, the driver, was isolated in the bow of the vehicle and very much in his own world. Twine ran into his compartment and was wrapped around each wrist - a long pull on either meant turn this way, sharp tugs on both meant stop, a long pull backward meant full reverse.
The clank of the breach closing after the round was loaded was heard over the roar of the tank's operation.
Meanwhile, the two Polish T55s had noticed their enemy and were swinging around to do battle. Like a scene from a medieval woodcut, the two tanks first raised, then lowered their main gun barrels like lances of old. But these "lances" weren't saluting their enemy: the guns' autoloaders required the cannons to shift thusly as their own armor-piercing rounds were locked into place.
The crew of the Abrams had distance, surprise and the M1's stabilizer, a computer that allowed the gun to fire somewhat accurately on the move, on their side. While the radio had been damaged, this critical piece of gear had survived well enough to do its job more or less unhindered. Still, a successful kill-shot required closer range, and the meters ticked by as the three tanks closed in.
"HOLD...HOLD...FIRE!" Murchison yelled.
"ON THE WAAAY!"
The Abrams bucked as the 120mm shell discharged, throwing off its guidance canister, the "Sabot", holding the 20mm dart of depleted uranium and tungsten snug in the barrel as soon as the round cleared the muzzle. The two kilometers between the tanks was ranged in a little more than a second, and the metal dart smashed through the thick armor of the Soviet-made vehicle. The enemy tank shuddered and blew itself to pieces. No-one leapt from the hatch of the wrecked vehicle as it lurched and burned.
The remaining T55 had fired its round. Taylor saw the incoming shot first - arcing over the rolling ground, moving too slow for a regular cannon shot. "MISSILE! MISSILE!" he called out. Murchison heard him, almost a moment too late. She threw the switch to blast out vision-obscuring smoke as Taylor reflexively jinked the massive vehicle to the right. There was a deafening clang as something caused the Abrams to lurch harder to the right; the tank skidded forward a few more meters and stopped.
"WHAT WAS THAT." Czerwinski yelled.
"SHUT UP. LOAD SABOT!" Kelly ordered. "SABOT OUT, LOADING HEAT!" Murchison took command of the situation before panic overtook her crew. "WAIT FOR IT. SWITCH TO THERMAL! ENGINE OFF!" Taylor flipped the vision mode on his main gun to thermal, but the image was black. The missile strike had knocked the amplified viewfinder out.
The inside of the Abrams was suddenly eerily quiet. Murchison held the control stick for the turret in override mode - Kelly was fighting to move the turret to track the enemy as they rode in to inspect their kill. She could still see through her hunter-killer sight and watched as the smoke dissipated and the T55 came frighteningly close.
"Come on, you son of a bitch. Come in and die," she whispered hoarsely as the enemy drew in. The heads-up range reading for the sight's rangefinder read 900m.
"FIIIIRE!" Murchison screamed. There was no call for on-the-way: the shot closed the range in less than a second, tearing the turret off of the T55. Crazily, the now unweaponed tank began to back up: at least someone inside the vehicle was still alive.
"Load HEAT!" Taylor called, but Czerwinski's reply was a simple "Rounds complete." The Abrams was out of main gun ammunition and now almost as harmless as the ruined T55 retreating away from them.
Murchison cranked her hatch open and looked at the smashed track, uncoiled like a dead snake next to her tank. She climbed over the hull and knelt next to her driver's main hatch, rapping on it until it opened. "Helluva way to run a war, eh boss?" the driver cracked a grin as he spoke. "You bet, Bob. Listen, draw a sidearm from the bustle, get on your bike and get back to the farm. See if that bunch of drunks from the 109th with the M88 are still there and if they are, offer 'em a couple of smoked hams and a fifth of whatever we don't have to put in the gas tank to come up here and get us rolling again."
"Aye aye, Cap'n!" Taylor clamored out and started unlimbering an AK-74 and the BMX-style bicycle that had been "liberated" from the remains of a department store weeks before and now functioned as the team's reconnaissance vehicle.
We'll worry about main gun ammo tomorrow... she thought.
...
Gotta love T2k, mang.
I know it ain't bad, DD, but 1) I want to set my own setting and 2) Not really down for the whole military stuff, though I know T2k isn't just for military characters.
I need to get myself a physical copy of T2K, man.
Quote from: Benoist;509238I need to get myself a physical copy of T2K, man.
Get the 1e Boxed Set, Pirates of the Vistula, Ruins of Krakow, Going Home, ... basically if the cover art is by Dana Knutson you're in good shape.
I like playing a bit with the setting and tweaking it so things aren't
quite so bleak (f'rex, Florida takes like 3 nukes but
Into the Howling Wilderness puts its population at like 50000 in the fall of 2000; sorry, FL exports more food than it imports, and while I'm not pulling some huffy nerd toughguy "Well
I would survive, I've read books and seen
Red Dawn like five times already." bullshit, if anything I think FL's population would grow somewhat). Sure, like every state there'd be a massive depopulation from '97 through '99, but this "99% abandoned"? yeah, no.
This is my writeup for Orlando, FL (http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=2793)
Quote from: Rincewind1;509237I know it ain't bad, DD, but 1) I want to set my own setting and 2) Not really down for the whole military stuff, though I know T2k isn't just for military characters.
The beauty of T2k is that "Good luck, you're on your own". Players no more have to be in the military despite using military gear than Max Rocketansky was in the police in
The Road Warrior despite driving a police car.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;509261Get the 1e Boxed Set, Pirates of the Vistula, Ruins of Krakow, Going Home, ... basically if the cover art is by Dana Knutson you're in good shape.
I like playing a bit with the setting and tweaking it so things aren't quite so bleak (f'rex, Florida takes like 3 nukes but Into the Howling Wilderness puts its population at like 50000 in the fall of 2000; sorry, FL exports more food than it imports, and while I'm not pulling some huffy nerd toughguy "Well I would survive, I've read books and seen Red Dawn like five times already." bullshit, if anything I think FL's population would grow somewhat. Sure, like every state there'd be a massive depopulation from '97 through '99, but this "99% abandoned"? yeah, no.
This is my writeup for Orlando, FL (http://forum.juhlin.com/showthread.php?t=2793)
I'd love to discuss this with you, DD. I'll read the link later ;).
You need to remember that
The actual blast'd only really kill 10 - 30% of population, if alarm was raised soon enough. Most of the deaths would come from radiation poisoning, and lowered immunity to common diseases, caused by radiation, lack of proper medical services (as MS, if survived, would be overrun with radiation poisoning victims). Quite a lot of technology'd be lost to EMP, including engines used for farming, and radiation is a terrible bitch - wind could carry it to great distances, rendering most of Florida's food plains useless. Add to that social breakdown, livestock being pretty much wiped out (which'd also cause an insect plague from all those rotting cow/swine etc. etc. corpses), and again - terrible slowdown of medicine production. I know that in Twilight 2k there was no complete destruction of government, but still, you can bet that the society pretty much broke down still for a good while.
Though I agree that turning entire population to 50.000 is a bit too grim - but I think that a death toll of 80 - 90% of population is a possible scenario. A "fortunate" thing is that after the initial death tolls, the remaining medicine stock supply'd serve everyone for quite a bit.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;509266The beauty of T2k is that "Good luck, you're on your own". Players no more have to be in the military despite using military gear than Max Rocketansky was in the police in The Road Warrior despite driving a police car.
Hmmm hmmm. Still, I think I'll first give BRP a try - bought the PDF, because it seems like it offers Cybernetics mechanics as well, and as I said - I want to transfer the game into Cyberpunk at some point, when/if PCs reach the Utopia.
Quote from: Rincewind1;509267Though I agree that turning entire population to 50.000 is a bit too grim - but I think that a death toll of 80 - 90% of population is a possible scenario. A "fortunate" thing is that after the initial death tolls, the remaining medicine stock supply'd serve everyone for quite a bit.
Agreed, but even so, FL should have a population of around 500,000 or thereabouts, not fifty thousand, if you factor in starvation, disease, etc.
It's not unreasonable to assume Orlando would have a population in excess of 20k or more people in 2000 in T:2k.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;509268Agreed, but even so, FL should have a population of around 500,000 or thereabouts, not fifty thousand, if you factor in starvation, disease, etc.
It's not unreasonable to assume Orlando would have a population in excess of 20k or more people in 2000 in T:2k.
That I agree - Post - Apocalyptic fiction is usually a bit too liberal with the "99.9% dead" scenario. At that point, really, it'd probably mean that the amount of nuclear weaponry pumped into the war'd be enough that radiation winds'd wipe the remaining humanity off the planet.
I'd say that this is mostly because of Road Warrior influence, and perhaps The Postman (though Postman had at least one bigger town, if I remember correctly) - you know, the small, desolate settlements of little people. Problem is, of course, that Australia is very densely populated, but on a very small area - which means that a potential nuclear attack'd indeed be devastating there to a majority of population.
Quote from: Rincewind1;508840Alright, ladies and gentlemen, I have a question - got any good Post - Apo RPG suggestions? I've been mostly using Polish RPG Neuroshima, but well, it's really poor, and I'd rather shift.
I prefer RPGs with low to medium crunch - that's why I abandoned trying to get into Wasteland, as it was just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too crunchy for me.
Suggestions? I need an RPG, or at least a good mechanic base, for a rather serious and tragic Post - Apo, so more "gonzo" mechanics and RPGs are out.
Apocalypse World.
:D
Quote from: silva;509340Apocalypse World.
:D
We had a thread about that recently, you should check it out!
Quote from: Silverlion;508885Atomic Highway. Its a bit cinematic, but it plays very smoothly and is definitely designed for a Mad Max/Book of Eli feel.
(of course with MUTANTS!)
Great game!
Their forum also had many contributions with new vehicles, zombie rules, etc. Lots of good stuff on there.
Fuck off.
;)
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;509164Really pick whatever modern RPG you like and use that.
I'd probably use the Storyteller system with mortal PCs; completely ignore the vampires or werewolves or whatever and make human PCs. It'd give you all the modern stuff rules you need (guns and skills and stuff), is reasonably light, and the merits/flaws are aimed at being grimdark. Main drawback being that it'd be quite deadly and healing would take ages.
I ran WoD as a detective game doing just this and it worked really well.
For currently supported games I would suggest The Mutant Epoch from Outland Arts. Great game and really nice people.
My YouTube review:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1Yn9qub1bU
With a name like that, I will presume that it focuses somewhat strongly on mutants?
Quote from: Rincewind1;509653With a name like that, I will presume that it focuses somewhat strongly on mutants?
Yes. Mutants are very common. The selection is quite impressive. Plus cyborgs and fully anthro animals.
Quote from: Tetsubo;509656Yes. Mutants are very common. The selection is quite impressive. Plus cyborgs and fully anthro animals.
That's the problem (which I should've specified) - I don't want common mutants. Rare cyborgs, and rare mutants (preferably for NPCs, too), are a must.
Quote from: Rincewind1;509657That's the problem (which I should've specified) - I don't want common mutants. Rare cyborgs, and rare mutants (preferably for NPCs, too), are a must.
Than don't have them. There isn't anything stopping you from having the PCs be all or mostly pure humans. Or Ghost Mutants which appear human but have hidden mutations.
Did somebody say Gamma World?
Gamma World is the absolute bomb.
If I want something slightly more serious though, I have a one-of-a-kind prinnt copy of the Fallout PnP rules.