Quote from: Abyssal Maw;284203Thats 3rd edition, and by the way? Under 3e or 3.5 or presumably Pathfinder.. you are supposed to go by the formula, and the Sparrow would have a strength of 5. Yes, able to carry objects and drop bricks (and presumably flasks of acid or whatever else) on enemies. Under D&D3, the DM is absolutely meant to play by the same rules (including the monster creation formula) as the players. That's how it works, and although not every DM would rule it that way, a sizable percentage would because that allows the players to reliably design their own strategies within the parameters of the rules. The player could legitimately say "I totally bought the whole Enhanced Summoning Feat because I need the summoned sparrow (or bat, or viper) to drop my potion flasks on the enemies!" I'd allow it, personally. That's how the rules work. It's actually a cute strategy for 3e.

Under 4e of course, the DM does not use the same rules as the players and is free to rule otherwise because there is simply no rule covering such a thing. Thanks for playing!

Creatures don't have strength in 4e? I must have missed that in my read through. I know when we've played strength has been discussed. What am I missing, AM?

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;284203Thats 3rd edition, and by the way? Under 3e or 3.5 or presumably Pathfinder.. you are supposed to go by the formula, and the Sparrow would have a strength of 5. Yes, able to carry objects and drop bricks (and presumably flasks of acid or whatever else) on enemies. Under D&D3, the DM is absolutely meant to play by the same rules (including the monster creation formula) as the players. That's how it works, and although not every DM would rule it that way, a sizable percentage would because that allows the players to reliably design their own strategies within the parameters of the rules. The player could legitimately say "I totally bought the whole Enhanced Summoning Feat because I need the summoned sparrow (or bat, or viper) to drop my potion flasks on the enemies!" I'd allow it, personally. That's how the rules work. It's actually a cute strategy for 3e.

Under 4e of course, the DM does not use the same rules as the players and is free to rule otherwise because there is simply no rule covering such a thing. Thanks for playing!

I'm not too up on 4e, but in 3e they hadn't totally killed the spirit of the game. (:

In the 2e days the gm was free to ignore all the rules. I feel that I was grandfathered in under that system...

Quote from: The Shaman;284165Coming soon, my new book From Bags of Rats to Flocks of Sparrows: How to Break D&D.

lol nice

Quote from: KenHR;284148But...think of the sparrow...you're DEPROTAGONIZING THE FUCKING SPARROW!

Thanks for the profile signature.

Quote from: James J Skach;284213Creatures don't have strength in 4e? I must have missed that in my read through. I know when we've played strength has been discussed. What am I missing, AM?

Summoned creatures (going by the playtest info and previews in DDI) indeed do not have a strength score in 4e unless it is especially noted; because creatures do not follow the same rules that characters use in 4E (similar to AD&D and Basic D&D in this regard). (Nor is there a feat to boost that strength). Summoned creatures don't even have hit points as far as I can tell. They exist, they carry out attacks (or whatever it is they do- there's one that is specifically designed to carry stuff or break down doors I think- and that particular one *does* have a strength), and they disappear at the end of the encounter.


Example below:


Summon Abyssal Maw
Wizard Attack 5
The air is filled with the sound of gnashing teeth as a voracious creature of the Elemental Chaos appears and chews into anything it can reach.
Daily; Arcane, Implement, Summoning
Minor Action
Ranged 10
Effect: You summon a Medium abyssal maw in an unoccupied square within range. The maw has a speed of 6. You can give the maw the following special commands.
Standard Action: Melee 1; targets one creature; Intelligence vs. Reflex; 2d6 + Intelligence modifier damage.
Opportunity Attack: Melee 1; targets one creature; Intelligence vs. Reflex; 1d8 + Intelligence modifier damage. In addition, if an enemy adjacent to the maw makes a melee attack that does not include the maw as a target, the maw can make an opportunity attack against that enemy after the enemy's attack is resolved.

Note: Where it says Intelligence? It refers to the summoner's intelligence, because the summoner is in control of the creature.

Oh, and also, it just occured to me that unless a sparrow is specifically being statted out as a combatant, it simply doesn't have stats in 4e.

Is that spell reversible? ;-)

Quote from: Stuart;284273Is that spell reversible? ;-)

I'm afraid my summoner is dead, and now I'm here to stay.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;284264Summoned creatures (going by the playtest info and previews in DDI) indeed do not have a strength score in 4e unless it is especially noted; because creatures do not follow the same rules that characters use in 4E (similar to AD&D and Basic D&D in this regard). (Nor is there a feat to boost that strength). Summoned creatures don't even have hit points as far as I can tell. They exist, they carry out attacks (or whatever it is they do- there's one that is specifically designed to carry stuff or break down doors I think- and that particular one *does* have a strength), and they disappear at the end of the encounter.


Example below:


Summon Abyssal Maw
Wizard Attack 5
The air is filled with the sound of gnashing teeth as a voracious creature of the Elemental Chaos appears and chews into anything it can reach.
Daily; Arcane, Implement, Summoning
Minor Action
Ranged 10
Effect: You summon a Medium abyssal maw in an unoccupied square within range. The maw has a speed of 6. You can give the maw the following special commands.
Standard Action: Melee 1; targets one creature; Intelligence vs. Reflex; 2d6 + Intelligence modifier damage.
Opportunity Attack: Melee 1; targets one creature; Intelligence vs. Reflex; 1d8 + Intelligence modifier damage. In addition, if an enemy adjacent to the maw makes a melee attack that does not include the maw as a target, the maw can make an opportunity attack against that enemy after the enemy's attack is resolved.

Note: Where it says Intelligence? It refers to the summoner's intelligence, because the summoner is in control of the creature.

Oh, and also, it just occured to me that unless a sparrow is specifically being statted out as a combatant, it simply doesn't have stats in 4e.

This is actually one of the features in 4e that I appreciate.