Most modern games have suckass equipment lists.

But then, so did most old school games too.

A good equipment list reinforces setting, it lets you know what matters to people because it tells you how much it costs, plus it adds flavour.

If the equipment list differentiates between different levels of food, has clothes separately itemised by type, covers furniture and a variety of livestock, then that adds colour and players tend to use those details.

Cyberpunk 2020 for example, that had a great section detailing what you ate at each income level, and when you read how you lived on low spending you really wanted to make some money to escape it.

Qin has prices broken down by vegetable, and more of them than my local supermarket.  I was able to price cabbages in my game, which actually then became relevant to play.  Also, with real pricing I was able to make money matter, which led to one PC saving half their dinner so they could have it for breakfast, great stuff and that tends not to happen in games that abstract money.

Now abstracting money can be cool, but all too often I abstract money because the game doesn't give me a decent equipment list so I have little choice, but a good equipment list is a thing of joy and is only missing from many modern rpg designs because it takes some work on the designer's part.

What about you?  Love the list?  Hate the list?  Do you like counting your coppers or do you prefer to roll against wealth and not keep track?  And if it depends, and it probably does, at least say what it depends on...

Original Teenagers From Outer Space.  Love it, love it.

Portable-Hole Spray Paint, Duplicator Guns, Tractor Beam Pencils, Universal Library Card, Invisible Paint ... just pages and pages of totally wonky over-the-top craziness, packaged with a price-tag and a smile.

Quote from: BalbinusA good equipment list reinforces setting, it lets you know what matters to people because it tells you how much it costs, plus it adds flavour.

I know I sound like a broken record...but Jorune and Tales of Garganthir are perfect examples of this.

Regards,
David R

I'm working on my equipment section right now, and honestly, I dread the "mundane" equipment portion of things.

I tend just not to care much about that stuff in play.  I look at it when I read the book, and most of the time wind up ignoring it entirely, because it's just not the sort of fiddly I'm interested in.  I've made D&D characters with nothing but a sword and a suit of armor, and maybe a horse.  

I also hate writing lists.  

But, it does seem somewhat more important given the setting of the game, and the scarcity of, well, everything.  And there are a few items of value in particular I think it will be important to include.

To use the dreaded I word, I think they can help immersion.

That's actually part of it, focussed rpgs tend not to need these, I don't mind that say Dust Devils doesn't have an equipment list because that's really not what the game is about.

What annoys me is when a game that is about immersing into the setting and having adventures exploring it leaves out these things.  

In fact, I think I would argue that a good equipment list is a useful part of what for want of a better term (and I would like a better term) is often called sim design.  It grounds the game, gives the world a greater reality, makes it seem like there is some there there.

If that's not what you're into, the equipment list ain't gonna float your boat.  But if you want some there there, then it really does help with that.

Well, certainly there are some aspects of an equipment list that have the potential to emphasize certain things.

For instance, light sources like torches actually are statted up in a similar manner to weapons in A Song in the Dark, because it's pitch damn black all the time, which means in combat the most important item in the whole party isn't the guns, it's the flashlight.  

At the same time, you also get a lot of games where it's just a generic dump of stuff that jsut feels tacked on and really unnecessary.  A lot of games are like this IME.  Just a big dump of random crap that's probably just copied from some other game somewhere.

Gargentihr.

Detailed equipment lists do what you say, and they also open up an avenue for player creativity.

There are all kinds of crazy things you can accumulate that give you an edge in play.

Love 'em myself. For me, they definitely help with immersion, for fleshing out the setting, and for roleplaying as well. I've had my paladins pass out various types of food to the poor, my rogues improvise tools from common crap, and my halforc fighter liked pretty toys Great fun having more stuff to spend loot on.

Quote from: BalbinusWhat about you?  Love the list?  Hate the list?  Do you like counting your coppers or do you prefer to roll against wealth and not keep track?  And if it depends, and it probably does, at least say what it depends on...

Well, that depends on the mood. But mostly, it's the sort of thing that's not a highlight for me, and when done well, it almost goes without notice. A poorly made one, however, gets noticed in shades of aggravation.

One thing I don't like in a game is lots of account balancing.

Quote from: SigmundLove 'em myself. For me, they definitely help with immersion, for fleshing out the setting, and for roleplaying as well.

I got to agree with Sigmund on this. I'll take it a step further. I like to make handouts for weapons. In my pulp steamer game. The ship had a weapons locker. So when the rifles got handed out. Every one got and index card with the name, stats, and a picture of the weapon.
In the Vietnam LRRP game I'm running. We have just finished character creation. This sunday we will settle on equipment. The players will again be presented with index cards of what weapons are available to them from the armory to pick.
I really think it helps players visualize there weapons and equipment. helping with visualizing their character.

I love good lists so much I pick up the reprints of old Sears catalogs for my Victorian games. They're immesive, handy, give real-world prices, and have stuff you wouldn't think to put in an "equipment" list.
"Stu--look at this, behind the vitamins."
"Yeah, they had some odd ideas about healthcare, didn't they?"
"That harness thingie--it had electrodes?"
"Yep."
"In the place where it looks like they are?"
"Um . . . yep."
And they thought it increased your vitality?"
"Sure enough."
"I want one."
You don't have character generation like that with lists of mining equipment and guns.

Games set in modern times have the best equipment list of all. It's called the internet. How much does it take to buy a used aircraft carrier? How about a split level ranch in Billings Montana? I tell players if they can find a price on the 'net, they can have it for that price.

OTOH, SF or Ancient games need a detailed equipment list.

-clash

Quote from: stu2000I love good lists so much I pick up the reprints of old Sears catalogs for my Victorian games. They're immesive, handy, give real-world prices, and have stuff you wouldn't think to put in an "equipment" list.
"Stu--look at this, behind the vitamins."
"Yeah, they had some odd ideas about healthcare, didn't they?"
"That harness thingie--it had electrodes?"
"Yep."
"In the place where it looks like they are?"
"Um . . . yep."
And they thought it increased your vitality?"
"Sure enough."
"I want one."
You don't have character generation like that with lists of mining equipment and guns.

Sears Catalogs rock for recent-but-not-now games! I use them all the time too!

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceGames set in modern times have the best equipment list of all. It's called the internet. How much does it take to buy a used aircraft carrier? How about a split level ranch in Billings Montana? I tell players if they can find a price on the 'net, they can have it for that price.

OTOH, SF or Ancient games need a detailed equipment list.

-clash

I'll pretty much agree with clash here, but will mention that the "real" prices and sources need to be checked by the GM.  Primarily due to little things like where the item is being offered for sale (so include shipping or delivery charges), minimum quantity required for that great price (this is one that will catch lots of people), and especially is that a real price, an estimated valuation, or a price from someones equipment list for another game.

I remember doing up a fairly long list for a game on one board and getting several messages from people (collectors mostly) wanting to actually purchase some items that I had listed.  The lists were edited to indicate that the items listed were for a game.  I know that one of the best listings for Twillight 2000/Merc 2000 has a similar disclaimer also.

One thing that the modern settings do still need a good list for is weapons, ammunition, and certain military equipment.  More than a fair amount of that stuff is simply not available (easily) on the general civilian market, so the civilian price for a GPMG is not what countries, police departments, merc units, corporate security forces, etc., would be able to equip themselves for.

Quote from: SionEwigI'll pretty much agree with clash here, but will mention that the "real" prices and sources need to be checked by the GM.  Primarily due to little things like where the item is being offered for sale (so include shipping or delivery charges), minimum quantity required for that great price (this is one that will catch lots of people), and especially is that a real price, an estimated valuation, or a price from someones equipment list for another game.

I remember doing up a fairly long list for a game on one board and getting several messages from people (collectors mostly) wanting to actually purchase some items that I had listed.  The lists were edited to indicate that the items listed were for a game.  I know that one of the best listings for Twillight 2000/Merc 2000 has a similar disclaimer also.

One thing that the modern settings do still need a good list for is weapons, ammunition, and certain military equipment.  More than a fair amount of that stuff is simply not available (easily) on the general civilian market, so the civilian price for a GPMG is not what countries, police departments, merc units, corporate security forces, etc., would be able to equip themselves for.

Agree entirely here. I always have my players send me links to their "finds" and check them out myself.

-clash