Quote from: Cole;455446What I'm talking about is over-presenting detail in order to maintain the illusion that the location is a pre-detailed one.

And that seems to have as much to do with the topic at hand as saying, "You shouldn't try to maintain the illusion of preparation by secretly setting the table on fire when they go beyond your prepared material."

While it's true that, in the confusion, people may not notice that you didn't have that material prepared, it's just a bad idea in general.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;455462And that seems to have as much to do with the topic at hand as saying, "You shouldn't try to maintain the illusion of preparation by secretly setting the table on fire when they go beyond your prepared material."

While it's true that, in the confusion, people may not notice that you didn't have that material prepared, it's just a bad idea in general.

Well, I have never once seen a GM try to maintain the illusion of preparation by starting a fire, but any number of times I have seen a GM try to maintain the illusion of preparation by over-detailing and myopic pacing. Maybe they are not in a necessary causal relationship, but I have seen the two issues go hand in hand enough times to think it's an issue that is worth pointing out to GMs new to running a more open ended style of campaign. Especially given that MMF asked around the start of the thread,

Quote from: Megamanfan;455166Is this a time where you would tell your players outright that they're in control of their destinies and to not look to you for right or wrong ways to go about seeking adventure?  Or should the GM keep that secret to keep up the illusion of preparedness?

Given your several valuable posts in this thread and good articles on your site, I have no doubt you personally know how to run a sandbox style game well, so I ask that you don't take it as me trying to call your abilities into question because I have made reference to the sewer example when you said your players "checked out" upon recognizing its random nature.

Basically I am just saying to MMF and other people new to sandbox style play, if the party encounter 3d6 orcs, yes, play the orcs for all they are worth, don't be afraid to make connections at the world at large, and at the same time, don't feel pressured to start mapping out a new full 5 level dungeon for them to live in, especially just so your players will believe you have masterminded the Ziggurat of the Orc King as the main course all along.

And I'm saying that because I have seen it happen, and seen it cause problems.

I'm thinking that a new thread about pacing within the sandbox environment would be a worthwhile one as well.