Well thanks to Snowman0147 I checked out godbound and found it pretty radical.
I have used Sine stuff before with Stars Without Number. The funny thing is that I didn't even initially look at godbound because I thought it would be the kind of wankery that exalted ended up exemplifying.
Godbounds art is gritty and grim but rules and writing suggest deep optimism. Exalteds art is bright and colorful but its rules and writing suggest a world mired in never ending self pity.
Also how the frack is Godbounds Artwork more consistent in quality?
But some concerns:
I actually like 3d6 systems more then 1d20 systems that feel swingy to me (IE a reason I liked stars without number). I very much liked the subsystems but the core resolution mechanics gave me pause: I feel like there isn't enough options to customize character in Godbound to make characters feel mechanically distinct. Im not a uber optimizer, but one massive turn off I felt when playing D&D 5e was the distinct feeling that my character didn't in any way feel distinguished in my actions from another.
If the mechanics are supposed to be bolstered by GM fiat Id like more guidelines for proper GM fiat. If the difference between STR 18 and 8 is a 15% difference, then Id like some guidelines to make that raw number feel meeningful if I ever got the opportunity to run it as a GM.
Does it sound like a reasonable idea to mix Stars Without Number and Godbound together someway?
rgalex mentioned it before me so give him some credit.
EDIT: It also helps that there is the deluxe version that has more options such as martial arts, mechs, the ability to create your own paradise, being arch gods, and oh... different types of Godbound.
Quote from: Snowman0147;1114477rgalex mentioned it before me so give him some credit.
EDIT: It also helps that there is the deluxe version that has more options such as martial arts, mechs, the ability to create your own paradise, being arch gods, and oh... different types of Godbound.
Purchased it already. I haven't checked it all out though.
Also thanks rgalex. I did find that the new Godbound types include not-exalted.
However, the core resolution mechanic continues to bug me and I will likely to fidget with it.
Download Sine Nomine's Exemplars & Eidolons (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/144651/Exemplars--Eidolons?manufacturers_id=3482).
It's free and great fun. It doesn't solve all your problems, but its a "lighter" system than Godbound so you can bang on it easier, or just strip it for parts.
D20 is supposed to be swingy. It's in its nature.
But translating the core mechanic to 3D6 or 2D10 isn't a big issue.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1114845It's free and great fun. It doesn't solve all your problems, but its a "lighter" system than Godbound so you can bang on it easier, or just strip it for parts.
My main concern was a lack of customization depth. Not sure how it being lighter makes it a solution.
There is actually a lot of customization depth. You are encourage to make up your own powers. There is a guide for that in the core book.
How much customization depth are you looking for?
AKA, name a game which gives you that depth so we understand your parameters. Everybody has a different definition so knowing your goal posts in advance would help.
I've made a dozen PCs with E&E and they were all significantly different and unique.
I liked the Words. I just wanted a more skill based system. More variance in the numbers. So each character hit bonus didn't range by 10%.
It just bugged me that being a God of War Barely felt any different then a God of Music in practice.
Also Id like an Advantage/Disadvantage system. I feel like being disadvantaged is just as important as feeling advantaged sometimes.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1114855I liked the Words. I just wanted a more skill based system. More variance in the numbers. So each character hit bonus didn't range by 10%.
Your dealing with beings who automatically pass every normal challenge so as long as the word fits to what your doing. Going with the Sword as a example. I would not spar with Godbound with Swords as he is going to win automatically. Likewise lifting heavy weights that mortals can actually lift is auto success with a godbound with the word Might. You only need to roll when you are pushed to your limits like say a sparing match between two Godbound with Swords, or doing things outside of your words such as the Might word godbound writing poetry. In short skill rolls are going to be far less important in this system and your gifts are going to be the bigger factor. Thus why the skill system is weak.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1114855It just bugged me that being a God of War Barely felt any different then a God of Music in practice.
Had you played the game, or just read the rules on paper? I am asking because I notice that yes the mechanics look all the samey when you read it. Well let me tell you once your playing it feels vastly different. Using Smite gift as a example. Under Bow it is literally a single graceful arrow shot that pierces the vital spot of the target that causes immense pain and suffering. With Beast for a brief time your hand transform into slashing claw of killing fury. Passion you fill the target's heart with so much sorrow that they go into a deep depression and start thinking about suicide.
Hell I do this again using the same words. Bow you produce arrows of pure divine magic and unleash them all on a single target like how one unloads a fully automatic machine gun into a poor soul. Beast you bite onto your target and unleash a deadly snake venom that would instantly kill plenty of mortal men. Passion you freak out your target with your unnatural wailing that you cause him to have a heart attack.
Do these sound like different mechanics to you? If so your wrong. This is still just a instant Xd10 damage attack where your level is X. I just role play these gifts to make them different.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1114855Also Id like an Advantage/Disadvantage system. I feel like being disadvantaged is just as important as feeling advantaged sometimes.
You can house rule that facts are similar to FATE aspects. That means the players will have to rename them and give room for a weakness. Like say a godbound has a fact called, "Member of the White Ivory League". You can say he gains advantage when using the faction for its benefit, but as soon as it runs counter to the faction's benefit it becomes a disadvantage roll.
Like say the White Ivory League is a mercenary group that works for the common good in the coastal region so pirates are their main enemy. You being a member stop some pirates from raiding a coastal town which was a breeze with your godly powers. One of the pirates you caught is this beautiful woman that for some reason you fell in love with. Now your having a argument in trying to spare the woman's life with your leader because he thinks your having moment of lust. Given that you just meet the woman and don't know her at all your elderly leader is most likely in the right and his arguments are far more logical than your emotional ones as far as your fellow mercenaries are concern. Thus grounds for disadvantage.
Quote from: Snowman0147;1114883Your dealing with beings who automatically pass every normal challenge so as long as the word fits to what your doing.
You only need to roll when you are pushed to your limits like say a sparing match between two Godbound with Swords, or doing things outside of your words such as the Might word godbound writing poetry.
I'm not super interested in that, nor do I think the system is as good at it as it should be:
For instance, the main Journey Power caught me off-guard for this reason:
QuoteHeroes with the Word of Journeying always know exactly where they are, never lose their way to a known destination, and may treat travel as if it were as restful and nourishing to them as sound sleep and a good meal.
I assumed that Godbound didn't need sleep, and didn't need food, and wouldn't lose their sense of direction. But apparently you need a power for it. And if you don't have it then traveling and not eating incurs penalties....That don't exist and are not listed anywhere, and would otherwise need to orient themselves....with rules that don't exist.
Or is it a penalty that doesn't exist as long as nobody takes the Journeying word at which point they exist only to be rendered irrelevant? Placebo powers?
QuoteHad you played the game, or just read the rules on paper?
Paper only so far, and of course I know that playing in practice can feel different. But I'm pretty good at game mechanics impressions. This also comes from me reading different players reactions online. Generally good reviews about the word system, but the feeling of sameyness followed online as well.
QuoteDo these sound like different mechanics to you?
Il be honest; that felt kinda patronizing. I know how re-fluffing works. Im not a child.
Maybe for you it works to make samey mechanics feel like exciting different actions: But for me, it serves to make exciting different actions all feel the same.
It feels very videogamey. And reminds me of D&D 4e.
QuoteYou can house rule that facts are similar to FATE aspects.
I HATE FATE. I HAAAATE FATE. Not on some deeply personal level I just hate to play it and I hate to run it.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1114892I assumed that Godbound didn't need sleep, and didn't need food, and wouldn't lose their sense of direction. But apparently you need a power for it. And if you don't have it then traveling and not eating incurs penalties....That don't exist and are not listed anywhere, and would otherwise need to orient themselves....with rules that don't exist.
Which mythological gods don't need to eat, drink, or sleep? A great many myths revolve around divine feasts, victualing, or falling asleep at inopportune times. It doesn't fit well with monotheistic deities, but a Godbound isn't much to be mistaken for the Creator. As for the penalties, there will be extremely few situations in which a Godbound can't find some way to get a bite to eat or a drink of water. If those situations do roll up, well, I assume the GM can figure out some appropriate penalties.
In general, Godbound are gods of their particular spheres. Outside of those spheres, they're pretty much humans. The general point of most of their conflicts is that a given Godbound has a limited toolbox of incredibly potent abilities that may or may not be applicable to what they actually want to do. How do you stop a civil war when you're a god of storms and plagues? How do you defend your cult when you're a god of wisdom and music? Within those spheres you're almost unstoppable by conventional mortal means. Outside them, well, you have to think a little harder.
Quote from: SineNomine;1114900Which mythological gods don't need to eat, drink, or sleep? A great many myths revolve around divine feasts, victualing, or falling asleep at inopportune times.
I assumed that was optional. But that's the issue isn't it: I'm left to assume. To me, it's hard to assume when you don't know whats divine or not. They're totally human, except when their not, and things are trivial for them (So no need to roll unless its important) until they are not (So roll for everything that's outside their purview that we don't even have mechanical reference points for). All based on assumption that change.
That said Il repeat that I like most of the stuff: I just dislike the chore mechanical resolution. I don't need the laws of physics mapped to a T, I just need a little more.
Also are you a representative of the company or just a fan of the products?
I'm a representative of the company in the sense that I'm its only employee, Kevin Crawford. As for the question of spelling things out more clearly in the book, the main issue is that questions often arise that I cannot plausibly foresee. The idea that Godbound should not need to eat, drink or sleep... I admit I never imagined that someone could assume that until you brought it up. Obviously it's an assumption that can be made, as you have, but it's nothing that would ever cross my mind and so I couldn't expect to explicitly define it in the book in the first place. I'm sure there are many other assumptions that I'm not noticing in the text.
Ultimately, however, Godbound is about as large a book as I can sell profitably at a price point the market will pay. If I'm given the choice between putting in ten pages of edge-case handling or ten pages of additional playable content, I'm going to go with the latter. It's my estimation that that balance tends to give the best value to the widest number of readers.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1114892Il be honest; that felt kinda patronizing. I know how re-fluffing works. Im not a child.
Didn't mean it like that. I just like explaining things in detail when I can.
Quote from: SineNomine;1114906I'm a representative of the company in the sense that I'm its only employee, Kevin Crawford. As for the question of spelling things out more clearly in the book, the main issue is that questions often arise that I cannot plausibly foresee.
Il fully take the responsibility that these are complaints coming from my personal preferences. Don't lose any sleep over it.
Notice I wrote down "Concerns" not "Criticisms". I know OSR type folk love this sort of game. Its just got some bagaboos with me.
Again even if I don't like everything, the things I love about your games is that I can always take something away from them.
Quote from: Snowman0147;1114908Didn't mean it like that. I just like explaining things in detail when I can.
Fair enough. I understand.
Kevin, add Godbound to your sig!
Quote from: SineNomine;1114906The idea that Godbound should not need to eat, drink or sleep... I admit I never imagined that someone could assume that until you brought it up. Obviously it's an assumption that can be made, as you have, but it's nothing that would ever cross my mind and so I couldn't expect to explicitly define it in the book in the first place.
I can see where Shrieking Banshee assumed Godbounds are more like true demigods, rather than divinely infused mortals.
I don't have my Godbound book close by, but is there anywhere in the text that defines the basic scope of their divinity? AKA, how human vs. deity are they? I came to Godbound from Exalted so I brought much of Exalted's assumptions with me.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1114911I can see where Shrieking Banshee assumed Godbounds are more like true demigods, rather than divinely infused mortals.
I don't have my Godbound book close by, but is there anywhere in the text that defines the basic scope of their divinity? AKA, how human vs. deity are they? I came to Godbound from Exalted so I brought much of Exalted's assumptions with me.
Maybe it's partly to do with the way Exalted 3rd Edition was written (whiny and melodramatic) I assumed that being a Godbound was way more than being Exalted. The book kinda stresses that nothing should be an issue to you unless its god-tier (so to speak), ergo there should be few resolution mechanics.
But if that's not the case, and your still mortal doing your mortal things 90% of the time, then more in-depth resolution mechanics would be nice. Thats how I see it anyway.
Exalted 3e is a perfect example of how badly later edition authors so often forget what made the first edition a success with its fans. Nobody got excited to play a badass Solar to instead wind up as an emo wanker. We were mini-gods who embodied the concept that power corrupts, even though we sought to be heroes, too often our egos took dominance as we reveled in our power. And that same power was the beacon to our many enemies. It was a such a kickass, simple and eminently playable concept epitomized in the Exalted 1e Kickstart and the original core book.
Ah White Wolf...the company that created much memorable coolness then let the freakshow ruin it!
Quote from: Spinachcat;1114920Exalted 3e is a perfect example of how badly later edition authors so often forget what made the first edition a success with its fans. Nobody got excited to play a badass Solar to instead wind up as an emo wanker. We were mini-gods who embodied the concept that power corrupts, even though we sought to be heroes, too often our egos took dominance as we reveled in our power. And that same power was the beacon to our many enemies. It was a such a kickass, simple and eminently playable concept epitomized in the Exalted 1e Kickstart and the original core book.
Ah White Wolf...the company that created much memorable coolness then let the freakshow ruin it!
Yeah, I gave 1st Ed a Read. It was more...KAPOW. I could actually get excited about such a setting.
3rd Edition went into detail about the goddam TAX system of the Realm. In a game where funds are represented by a 1-5 stat!
Basically what is going on is that if you have the word and you can use that word to influence things your going to be solar level power if not stronger. That is because your using your element to get things done. What really makes you mortal are problems that are outside the realm of your words.
Say your godbound of passion, wealth, and sorcery. You live in a city that you are born in and are a loyal citizen of that city. You are a patriot of your people of that city and because you are such a good patriot you use your divine power to make the city have the best economy in the region. With your passion you use your word to make the best plays in the region. With sorcery you enhance the effects of the two other words. Point is your city eventually becomes famous for both its wealth and culture throughout the world. You basically made fantasy New York city.
Then a plague hits and it is a true killer. You use the wealth word to get the best doctors and medical supplies, but without a cure that disease will eventually kill everyone. You use passion to get the world to notice the plight of your city and they send forth aid despite the risk of them getting infected. Yet no godbound of health shows up and now your just endangering your allies so eventually you convince the city council to shut down the city so that no one else outside the city can die. Sorcery does nothing other than allow you access to sorcery and enhance your other words, but that is where you can make a desperate journey to find a cure. Still your looking for a scroll that may not even exist while your city is dying. If only you have the health word because that will save your city within mere days instead of you making a desperate journey to save a dying city.
Another example.
You are the Winter Queen of the far north. With the words Air, Beast, and Water you became a legend. With your command of both sea and weather no invader had ever step into your palace made out of ice that you crafted yourself. The polar beasts are your citizens, soldiers, and spies. When you craft jewelry it is made of ice so cold that no amount of heat could destroy it. Hell your buck ass naked at most time because even the extreme cold cannot harm you. Sure when you need to be decent you put on the furs, or make gown of snowflakes to make delicate clothing that shows the silhouette of your shape if you really want to impress some one. Though most of the time you don't even bother putting on clothes because frankly there is no one to spy on you.
Which is your problem. There are no people up here. Oh made trips to the southern lands across the sea to lead people to your frozen land. You so powerful you can make them all immune to the cold, but they refuse. No one other than you want to live in the frozen north and sadly you cannot convince them to go with you. Men are not beasts and thus your powers have no effect them so you cannot command them to follow you. Air and water will do no good as what can they really do? You want them to peacefully come to your land and live there. The cold would just kill them so those two words are useless. Face it your stuck at you ice palace of solitude and your going to be one lonely snow witch.
Those are kickass examples!
Quote from: Snowman0147;1115005What really makes you mortal are problems that are outside the realm of your words.
Right. I'm asking for a better conflict resolution mechanic for the time for all the times I need to rely on my mortal self to get the issue done. I wasn't asking for a better conflict resolution mechanic for the words which worked on absolutes but the other stuff.
For instance am I immune to this plague or not (Im left to assume again)? How do I determine how successful I am at my Journey, etcetera.
I want more then just: If you have the word don't roll because you auto win> If you don't have the word roll a swingy 1d20 with a modifier of 1-3 (+ Maybe a fact if I'm lucky)
In my experience of running Godbound (two trad campaigns, one Godbound in Spaaaaaace!) the gaps that leave characters 'mortalish'/vulnerable are primarily there to encourage the group of half-god super-beings to be conscious of covering their individual weaknesses as a Pantheon, rather than leaning on the system to explain how they manage to survive when forced to operate out of their personal spheres of influence. This is why my GB players double-down on "don't split the Pantheon" much harder than they "don't split the party" in other genres.
Note To Mods: I had an active account, lost all details of it, and love this place so much I had to rejoin to relurk. Nothing sinister going on here, Guvs, honest injun.
Quote from: He-Ra;1115027In my experience of running Godbound (two trad campaigns, one Godbound in Spaaaaaace!) the gaps that leave characters 'mortalish'/vulnerable are primarily there to encourage the group of half-god super-beings to be conscious of covering their individual weaknesses as a Pantheon, rather than leaning on the system to explain how they manage to survive when forced to operate out of their personal spheres of influence. This is why my GB players double-down on "don't split the Pantheon" much harder than they "don't split the party" in other genres.
Mmmm, I can see that especially since the areas outside word perview are only covered by GM fiat, so could understand sticking to covering weaknesses.
I forgot their names, but there are things that can suppress divine powers. There are beings that can suppress powers too.
Quote from: Snowman0147;1115073I forgot their names, but there are things that can suppress divine powers. There are beings that can suppress powers too.
Yeah my books aren't handy, but PCs can end up paying an 'effort tax' to activate powers, either due to Empyrean wards or powers certain big-bads can deploy.
Quote from: Snowman0147;1115073I forgot their names, but there are things that can suppress divine powers. There are beings that can suppress powers too.
Err sure? What this have to do with anything?
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1115089Err sure? What this have to do with anything?
I guess nothing...
Look Godbound is like the opposite of Communism. On paper it does look boring, but when you play it is actually fun. The mechanics are not design to do something, but design to allow you to do many things while at the same time staying out of the way of your enjoyment. Maybe it doesn't work for you, but for me it is actually great. I don't have to look into the book for a rule check and I can just say make a attribute check. Which yes you have to fluff it, but that fluff makes all the difference in the game which is the most powerful aspect of Godbound. You literally make up your own powers even if they have similar functions.
Quote from: Snowman0147;1115096Maybe it doesn't work for you, but for me it is actually great.
Just to be 110% clear: I think that everybody can have totes fun with whatever they want. My comments are purely on my own preferences and not about objective statements of fun....Not until my mind control device reaches Beta V 3.0 at least.
For me mechanical feedback is fun. I don't need combos or complex munchkining. But just a clear understanding of what my character can do.
Same goes for me as a GM. I like guidelines. I'm kind to prep myself guidelines beforehand then just make whatever up on the fly. It doesn't entertain me. When I feel like my players triumph with tools I could decide they have or not have at any moment (And yes I know as a GM I have ultimate control over that to an extent but pure GM fiat is more then the level Id like)....That just feels dull to me. Like a participation trophy.
Id rather have 3 distinctly different flavors (Or even 3 flavors with subtle differences), then 30 identical flavors with different food coloring. And I have absolutely no judgment against those that prefer the latter. Quantity is a quality all on its own.
Shrieking Banshee, are you a GURPS fan? I'm pretty sure Godbound could convert to GURPS with a little effort. Would that system give you what you're looking for?
Quote from: Spinachcat;1115115Shrieking Banshee, are you a GURPS fan? I'm pretty sure Godbound could convert to GURPS with a little effort. Would that system give you what you're looking for?
I was thinking that myself yes. And I am a gurps fan.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1115131I was thinking that myself yes. And I am a gurps fan.
And how many OSR games do you like?
To me, Godbound is a very good "I" in BECMI. (Though I feel like the immortal rules in the RC work well enough for an RC game even if they aren't the "full rules") And the mortal rules aren't too bad either as a stand alone game (just don't have mortals roll against the table for damage and have them roll HD for mortal hit points)
Quote from: Rhedyn;1115133And how many OSR games do you like?
Probably none. I feel like they rely massively on nostalgia. The good parts about them can b done better but are not because nostalgia.
That said I do like cribbing subsystems and the like.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1115140That said I do like cribbing subsystems and the like.
I feel the same way. Not an OSR person myself, but there is some good creativity in that region that is ripe for the picking. And I am also a GURPS fan.
Much of Kevin Crawford's work is great to steal from, like the faction and world tag mechanics from "Stars Without Number" or the domain generation and action structures from "An Echo, Resounding." I've also gotten a great deal of use out of Pundit's "Cults of Chaos."
Godbound has some interesting bits in it, but it's also a little over my head and I feel like I would have a difficult time running it trying to keep pace with the players and such large-scale stakes and conflicts.
As Not-OSR fans, what are your games of choice? I ask entirely out of curiosity - that and I kind of feel like OSR burnout may be setting in a little for me, and will likely begin the maddening cycle of finding "my game" once again.
Quote from: SavageSchemer;1115164As Not-OSR fans, what are your games of choice? I ask entirely out of curiosity - that and I kind of feel like OSR burnout may be setting in a little for me, and will likely begin the maddening cycle of finding "my game" once again.
Well, I'm not the OP but as mentioned my go-to game is GURPS although I realize it is not to everyone's tastes. I also greatly enjoy OpenD6 games, as well as FUDGE, as well as OtE/WaRP and Heroquest 2e or HQ 2e Glorantha on the more freeform, narrative-heavy side. I think all of those are pretty antithetical to the conventional views of what OSR aims for in terms of default gameplay, regardless of how I run them individually (where I still find value in the OSR mindset in specific cases).
In any case, I wish you luck SavageSchemer! :)
Quote from: Antiquation!;1115168Well, I'm not the OP but as mentioned my go-to game is GURPS although I realize it is not to everyone's tastes. I also greatly enjoy OpenD6 games, as well as FUDGE, as well as OtE/WaRP and Heroquest 2e or HQ 2e Glorantha on the more freeform, narrative-heavy side. I think all of those are pretty antithetical to the conventional views of what OSR aims for in terms of default gameplay, regardless of how I run them individually (where I still find value in the OSR mindset in specific cases).
In any case, I wish you luck SavageSchemer! :)
Thanks! And, sorry if I asked you to repeat yourself. I just saw two back to back "no OSR for me" statements and thought I'd ask. I might actually go with good ole D6 for a game or two! I have fond memories of WEG's D6 system and could use some time with a game where being a Big Damn Hero is entirely the point.
I second the D6 recommendation. There are LOADS of D6 resources now, most free on PDF. D6 does a great job as generic system, especially for theater of the mind. Savage Worlds would be my suggestion if you like lots of minis and setups at the table.
If you're looking for Big Damn Hero and want to keep OSR-like mechanics, I recommend Palladium Books. The original Palladium Fantasy 1e still kicks ass, and RIFTS is...RIFTS (which is utterly awesome or utterly terrible, depending on your taste).
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1115131I was thinking that myself yes. And I am a gurps fan.
I knew casting Detect Evil would work!!! :)
Quote from: Antiquation!;1115168Well, I'm not the OP but as mentioned my go-to game is GURPS although I realize it is not to everyone's tastes. I also greatly enjoy OpenD6 games, as well as FUDGE, as well as OtE/WaRP and Heroquest 2e or HQ 2e Glorantha on the more freeform, narrative-heavy side. I think all of those are pretty antithetical to the conventional views of what OSR aims for in terms of default gameplay, regardless of how I run them individually (where I still find value in the OSR mindset in specific cases).
In any case, I wish you luck SavageSchemer! :)
Err....I THIRD d6? Savage World has never clicked with me but I never hated it like I hate FATE.
Also since it apears we have similar tastes Il also check out your suggestions.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1115176I knew casting Detect Evil would work!!! :)
I should line my computer with lead for next time.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1115176If you're looking for Big Damn Hero and want to keep OSR-like mechanics, I recommend Palladium Books. The original Palladium Fantasy 1e still kicks ass, and RIFTS is...RIFTS (which is utterly awesome or utterly terrible, depending on your taste).
why-not-both.gif *little girl gets hoisted up by a bunch of cheering people*
I always found RIFTS to be a diamond in the rough...very, very rough and jaggedly edged. My biggest points of contention being the MDC system (which is waaay overblown, with damage coming up WAY too high with it being SDC x 100) and how inconsistent power balance can be, specially across different supplements or different Palladium games (which are supposedly compatible with RIFTS and characters can potentially crossover). It seemed like every other book had more powerful stuff in it, but occasionally would randomly dial back down between supplement or location. IIRC, the Atlantis stuff was way overpowered, while the England stuff (which came later) was weaker.
Still, Robotech and RIFTS were two of the first non-D&D games I ever played back when I was a teen. The setting itself was pretty awesome, if the rules were inconsistent.
Quote from: SavageSchemer;1115174Thanks! And, sorry if I asked you to repeat yourself. I just saw two back to back "no OSR for me" statements and thought I'd ask. I might actually go with good ole D6 for a game or two! I have fond memories of WEG's D6 system and could use some time with a game where being a Big Damn Hero is entirely the point.
No worries! I'm not really anti-OSR per se, the movement just doesn't fit my general sensibilities. I hope you find what you are looking for! OpenD6 is great, I can link you to the free, perfectly legal downloads if you need them. :)
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1115181Err....I THIRD d6? Savage World has never clicked with me but I never hated it like I hate FATE.
Also since it apears we have similar tastes Il also check out your suggestions.
I should line my computer with lead for next time.
Fate sucks fat dicks IMO, Savage Worlds does not gel with me at all but I acknowledge it works for certain groups, plus it has some great sourcebooks. Perhaps Everywhen/Barbarians of Lemuria might work for you as a more rules-light suggestion? It's fairly traditional, although it treats PC's as very heroic by default. If that doesn't bother you, the system itself is pretty solid. If you want solid guidelines however, something BRP-based is probably best. Mythras in particular is awesome, as well as M-Space. They also have some pretty great supplements.
Quote from: VisionStorm;1115184I always found RIFTS to be a diamond in the rough...very, very rough and jaggedly edged.
Absolutely true, but here's the weird thing I've discovered. The Palladium system is a mess and rightfully deserves much of the criticism it receives online BUT for reasons I'm not even sure, Palladium games not only play just fine at the table, but produce incredibly memorable sessions and campaigns. You need the right GM and players, aka gamers who are cool with speed bumps in the system and aren't there to rules wank, but if you have a good crew, I am always stunned how much sheer fun Palladium is in actual play.
Quote from: Antiquation!;1115185No worries! I'm not really anti-OSR per se, the movement just doesn't fit my general sensibilities.
Are you my Robot Clone or something? I side the same way.
Tell me more about Mythras
Quote from: Spinachcat;1115188Absolutely true, but here's the weird thing I've discovered. The Palladium system is a mess and rightfully deserves much of the criticism it receives online BUT for reasons I'm not even sure, Palladium games not only play just fine at the table, but produce incredibly memorable sessions and campaigns. You need the right GM and players, aka gamers who are cool with speed bumps in the system and aren't there to rules wank, but if you have a good crew, I am always stunned how much sheer fun Palladium is in actual play.
Oh, absolutely! And despite my serious misgivings about the system, if someone suddenly popped out some RIFTS books and offered a game I would still play. But if it's me GM'ing that thing I would at least tone down the MDC to like SDC x 10 or so instead of x 100, cuz I have no clue how humanity is still around in that setting when every other supernatural mook can turn them into red mist with just one 1d6 MDC claw attack.
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1115189Are you my Robot Clone or something? I side the same way.
Tell me more about Mythras
I prefer the term "bioroid," and as far as the clone thing, my programming doesn't allow me to divulge such information! ;)
Sure! Mythras is, mechanically, Runequest tuned a bit more and vastly cleaned up, with the serials filed off. It is presented as a generic-ish (not quite to a GURPS or HERO level) system primarily tuned for realistic-ish but heroic medieval fantasy by default. It is the standard BRP percentile roll-under system, but tuned better than default BRP IMO (the Big Brown Book is a fucking mess and I've never seen it as a truly generic system, more useful for translating between BRP-derived games than usable as an actual generic system or toolkit to itself).
I remember there being 5 different magic systems by default. Mythras also includes Passions which, if you haven't read about them, you should. They're really cool and I've done a couple different hacks to bring them into GURPS actually.
One of the cool things about Mythras' combat is the fact that depending on the effectiveness of your opposed rolls, you get Special Effects which are chosen AFTER the margin of success is decided. Things like disarming, vital strikes, knockdown, maiming, etc. are all chosen after the fact (severity of the special effect considered for the level of success). It really helps eliminate decision paralysis versus a game like GURPS (which I love) where decisions about tactics need to be made before a given skill roll; it's sort of like picking out of a box of chocolates when your skill roll comes out nicely. There are hit locations and it's a fairly granular system, though not so far as GURPS.
It has several excellent supplements, setting things like Mythic Britain, Mythic Rome, Mythic Constantinople. and After the Vampire Wars. Then you also have supplements expanding into entirely different genres; M-Space is exactly what it sounds like, Mythras but sci-fi, with firearms-based special effects like suppression and a really cool way of conducting conflicts that aren't combat; social, mental, etc. Or more gonzo stuff like Luther Arkwright. There's even a small supplement for superpowers, with a new book surrounding the topic I believe!
Monsters and enemies are built/presented in stats the same way PC's are which I vastly prefer. Combat skills are by "style" rather than specific weapon skills (although a style will generally dictate which weapons can be used with it) which is a neat way of looking at things.
So, in summary it's a sort of generic system, D%, but generally tuned towards heroic realism. Not as toolkit-y as GURPS or HERO but beginning to approach that territory. There is plenty to steal from other BRP derivatives which makes the tinkerer side more convenient as well.
It's still not quite as flexible as a truly generic toolbox, but it is extremely solid and ready to be tweaked and fucked around with nonetheless. :) It has not quite swayed me from my go-to, GURPS, but I have been romancing with it on the side...
Edit: Oh, and there's Mythras Imperative if you would like a free introductory version to check out!
Quote from: Antiquation!;1115220I prefer the term "bioroid," and as far as the clone thing, my programming doesn't allow me to divulge such information! ;)
Sure! Mythras is, mechanically, Runequest tuned a bit more and vastly cleaned up, with the serials filed off. It is presented as a generic-ish (not quite to a GURPS or HERO level) system primarily tuned for realistic-ish but heroic medieval fantasy by default. It is the standard BRP percentile roll-under system, but tuned better than default BRP IMO (the Big Brown Book is a fucking mess and I've never seen it as a truly generic system, more useful for translating between BRP-derived games than usable as an actual generic system or toolkit to itself).
I remember there being 5 different magic systems by default. Mythras also includes Passions which, if you haven't read about them, you should. They're really cool and I've done a couple different hacks to bring them into GURPS actually.
One of the cool things about Mythras' combat is the fact that depending on the effectiveness of your opposed rolls, you get Special Effects which are chosen AFTER the margin of success is decided. Things like disarming, vital strikes, knockdown, maiming, etc. are all chosen after the fact (severity of the special effect considered for the level of success). It really helps eliminate decision paralysis versus a game like GURPS (which I love) where decisions about tactics need to be made before a given skill roll; it's sort of like picking out of a box of chocolates when your skill roll comes out nicely. There are hit locations and it's a fairly granular system, though not so far as GURPS.
It has several excellent supplements, setting things like Mythic Britain, Mythic Rome, Mythic Constantinople. and After the Vampire Wars. Then you also have supplements expanding into entirely different genres; M-Space is exactly what it sounds like, Mythras but sci-fi, with firearms-based special effects like suppression and a really cool way of conducting conflicts that aren't combat; social, mental, etc. Or more gonzo stuff like Luther Arkwright. There's even a small supplement for superpowers, with a new book surrounding the topic I believe!
Monsters and enemies are built/presented in stats the same way PC's are which I vastly prefer. Combat skills are by "style" rather than specific weapon skills (although a style will generally dictate which weapons can be used with it) which is a neat way of looking at things.
So, in summary it's a sort of generic system, D%, but generally tuned towards heroic realism. Not as toolkit-y as GURPS or HERO but beginning to approach that territory. There is plenty to steal from other BRP derivatives which makes the tinkerer side more convenient as well.
It's still not quite as flexible as a truly generic toolbox, but it is extremely solid and ready to be tweaked and fucked around with nonetheless. :) It has not quite swayed me from my go-to, GURPS, but I have been romancing with it on the side...
Edit: Oh, and there's Mythras Imperative if you would like a free introductory version to check out!
Sounds Fantastic, Il check it out as well!
The only thing I'd disagree with Antiquation! over is that I'd say Mythras evokes a bronze age fantasy feel by default, not medieval. Other than that though, spot on.
You guys are making me wanna check out Mythras. :p
Quote from: VisionStorm;1115243You guys are making me wanna check out Mythras. :p
It's definitely worth it, especially the free (iirc) Mythras Imperative which gives a good overview of the system. There's a lot of crunch in the full core, but it's pretty modular and easily digestible, like an Ikea kitchen.
Quote from: VisionStorm;1115243You guys are making me wanna check out Mythras. :p
Mythras Imperative (http://thedesignmechanism.com/resources/Downloads/TDM110%20Mythras%20Imperative%20141019.pdf) is free to download, and is actually a really solid basis to try the game out with.
Edit: Ninja'd by He-Ra...
Quote from: He-Ra;1115244It's definitely worth it, especially the free (iirc) Mythras Imperative which gives a good overview of the system. There's a lot of crunch in the full core, but it's pretty modular and easily digestible, like an Ikea kitchen.
Quote from: SavageSchemer;1115245Mythras Imperative (http://thedesignmechanism.com/resources/Downloads/TDM110%20Mythras%20Imperative%20141019.pdf) is free to download, and is actually a really solid basis to try the game out with.
Edit: Ninja'd by He-Ra...
Thanks! Will check it out.
PS: There's Ninjas in every forum. ;)
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1115229Sounds Fantastic, Il check it out as well!
Please do! It is an excellent system.
Quote from: SavageSchemer;1115240The only thing I'd disagree with Antiquation! over is that I'd say Mythras evokes a bronze age fantasy feel by default, not medieval. Other than that though, spot on.
That is actually very true and an excellent point, thank you for the correction SavageSchemer!
Quote from: VisionStorm;1115243You guys are making me wanna check out Mythras. :p
You should, my friend! It is well worth a look.
Quote from: He-Ra;1115244It's definitely worth it, especially the free (iirc) Mythras Imperative which gives a good overview of the system. There's a lot of crunch in the full core, but it's pretty modular and easily digestible, like an Ikea kitchen.
For sure. It's chock full of content. I would highly recommend looking into the full product but Imperative is also excellent, and much more complete than GURPS Lite for instance even as much as I love GURPS. And yes, it is probably the most modular and digestible version of any BRP derived game I have ever encountered. Design Mechanism is truly a dedicated and amazing group of people and game designers.