I have been running one pretty standard campaign live on Saturdays but I've also been managing an irregular online campaign for a friend who moved out of town. This group has a discernibly different style than my Saturday gaming group but one I've managed in the past. They are what I call a Wild Bunch, they are basically more prone to power struggles within the party and run their characters more like villains than heroes. So on a given night I could be adjudicating anything from an one PC trying to muscle the whole group into serving as his minions, to the party taking over a temple dedicated to a good god, so they can use it as a base of operations for their criminal empire. I have to admit I enjoy players who smash things for some reason though I probably wouldn't want that to be my main focus of play. Curious about other GM's experiences and opinions handling groups that are more wild and destructive than your typical adventuring party.

Personally? Sometimes it is ok. More often its disruptive. It feels like nothing ever gets done as the PCs, and the players are endlessly fucking around being evil.

It can also be very taxing to GM as effectively the villains are winning. And you may have to GM the victims in some pretty henious acts. Which probably a good portion fo GMs are not Ok with. Most GMs are used to playing the badguys and seeing them lose one way or another. They may commit evil deeds as the monsters. But if things go well, those evil deeds will be punished.

Other DMs seem to love this sort of thing. Playing the victems instead. Sometimes so they can exterminate the players, sometimes as a change of pace. Sometimes to see evil deeds done to evil NPCs.

So really depends on how much you are willing to put up with as a DM. Is it still fun?

I have had fun playing that as the DM for Kefra, Seera and some others in a Post Apoc campaign on the early 2000s. They did really bad things. But it was never arbitraty or random. I've also not had fun with a different group who was just killing people to be killing people and committing atrocities for no reason. That campaign ended really early.

A good group can be great. A bad group can be hell.

Yeah, it depends.  "I am going to take over the Thieves' Guild and be the Godfather" can be fun.  "I'm going to run around setting orphans on fire and fucking things up because EEEBUL IS FUN" is less so.

Usually, these things are self-selecting. I've had a few "somewhat evil" players in the group, but usually the other players frown on those sorts of activities that it doesn't happen much.

Two weeks back, had a new player at my table, 5e. He's an 'exploding priest", and uses this ability that nukes everything next to him...including the other cleric in the party. The other cleric dies, and then the exploding priest still goes down...another player coup-de-gras' the exploding priest.

His next character was a paladin.

I've had my share of chaotic players, though, that don't work together. Trick is just to have fun with it, and "gently" help them learn how to cooperate. I remember one hobby shop game, the players come to a 4 way intersection.

2 players go one way, 2 another, 3 another....a three front battle ensued, after which I introduced the "don't split the party" concept.

I find player groups in general are much more prone to violence than one might think. Entire villages put to the torch because the villagers tried to block the door to a villager's hut that the players thought might be suspicious. Granted, the players had reason to be suspicious, but as soon as villagers with weapons showed up...fireballs and ice storms galore. "Self defense". But, again, they didn't set to outright murder everyone, stuff just happened.

Again, a few "tweaks" motivate the players, usually, to think a little bit. "Hey, didn't I see you guys heading down the road to that village that got burned to the ground?"

Unleash a goddamn beholder on them.

BTW, "Unleash a goddamn beholder on them" is now my solution for all things in all RPGs.

Twilight:2000?  It's a horrible radioactive mutant.
Call of Cthulhu?  A heretofore undiscovered terror from Beyond.
Mechwarrior?  A heretofore undiscovered terror from Beyond.

etc.

So, again, I reiterate: Unleash a goddamn beholder on them.

It's an online group?

That's one of the issues. They don't have any body language communication with the rest of the group and they are isolated in their own homes. For many people, that's enough to impair their cooperation with others.

I would send out an email questionnaire to the group asking them WTF they wanted out of the online sessions and what game / genre would be best for them. Also, in that email, I would set forth what YOU want out of the online sessions and what game / genre would be your choice.

If the GM isn't having a great time, then changes are mandatory. It's too much work to GM if you're not enjoying the experience.

frankly, i am more freaked out by 'regular' groups than by 'wild bunch' types.

just last night i played in hoard of the dragon queen and i'll explode if i have to face another spunky gnome, mysterious and dark warlock or gruff yet noble dragonborn. each one almost threatened my character due to some mispercived disrespect. give me scoundrels any day. at least i know what are they about.

Quote from: Spinachcat;855709It's an online group?

That's one of the issues. They don't have any body language communication with the rest of the group and they are isolated in their own homes. For many people, that's enough to impair their cooperation with others.

I would send out an email questionnaire to the group asking them WTF they wanted out of the online sessions and what game / genre would be best for them. Also, in that email, I would set forth what YOU want out of the online sessions and what game / genre would be your choice.

If the GM isn't having a great time, then changes are mandatory. It's too much work to GM if you're not enjoying the experience.

I'm having a blast, so it does't bother me any. My attitude with these kinds of campaigns is they usually just involve less work on my end in terms of prep but require more on the fly material since they can veer off in highly unexpected directions.

I don't know about the body language issue. We use Skype, so everyone can see each other's body language. That doesn't appear to be a problem. The biggest issue with online play is occasional technical issues. But this crowd plays this way whether it is online or at a regular table.

Playing all text you have to learn how to read the smileylanguage. :confused:

Quote from: Omega;855754Playing all text you have to learn how to read the smileylanguage. :confused:

It isn't online text, it is a video chat campaign.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;855759It isn't online text, it is a video chat campaign.

Meant when I am playing. Not you and your new-fangled video. Darn kids and your toys. :cool:

My longest running group was this way. Not exactly evil but not really "good guys" more loosely moraled and self serving. They did things that benefited them for reasons they found personally interesting. At various times they were highwaymen, smuggled, set a monastery on fire (an accident but they were up to no good when it happened), and even helped usurp the rule of a local nobleman putting his bastard on the throne.

The thing I learned was just to let the world have natural consequences. When you are living life as a bandit in a particular region you aren't going to market there, you're going to have find somewhere you aren't known. When you are always bar-room brawling and breaking shit don't be surprised when tavern owners throw you out or demand a retainer the moment you walk in. Life can be difficult for a scoundrel.

What sort of game is it — genre, setting, system?

A "bad guys" game can be fun... I think. Never had a long-term one. Wonder why?

Quote from: The Butcher;855769What sort of game is it — genre, setting, system?

A "bad guys" game can be fun... I think. Never had a long-term one. Wonder why?

Shared goals go a long way toward longevity. There are two kinds of "evil campaigns" I think: those where imploding is kind of the point, and those where you still expect to get mileage and go the distance.

The campaign I am running now is wuxia. Same system I use for all my games (Network from Servants of Gaius, Terror Network, etc). Because of the feuding sects elements, it has been pretty easy to manage, not unlike a mafia campaign when the party decides to take the path of banditry and crime.

I've run a lot of bad guy campaigns over the years. They definitely can be fun if everyone is on board. Really it isn't that different from running something like Vampire. Criminal underworlds have their organizations and checks and balances in the same way the vampire clans do. And evil parties are just as easy, if not easier, to motivate with the promise of riches. Evil parties will delve into dungeons as would a good party.

Quote from: Arkansan;855765My longest running group was this way. Not exactly evil but not really "good guys" more loosely moraled and self serving. They did things that benefited them for reasons they found personally interesting. At various times they were highwaymen, smuggled, set a monastery on fire (an accident but they were up to no good when it happened), and even helped usurp the rule of a local nobleman putting his bastard on the throne.
l.

I find rolling with these things can supply lots of fuel for campaigns. Once they;ve set up shop at the monastery, all kinds of challenges can emerge. Heck, they may even have to fend off a band of traveling heroes from time to time.