Mmm, not sure I see how that can be. Yes, as I noted above, if you give players enough power, there's less of a chance that a single preconceived plotline will play out to a tedious conclusion, or that players' input will be nullified.

But if all the players can do is specify the speed of a bear, then the GM does have that nullification power. So, your bear's fast: the GM introduces a pack of wolves.

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;302410Mmm, not sure I see how that can be.

Pro-player mechanics are limited by the rules. And they are limited - usually, they change dice rolls or allow, conditionally, players to alter one aspect of what's in play. The GM's ability to change the rules or other aspects of the game is limited solely by the "social contract" or his players' tolerance.

To put it more concretely, pro-player mechanics might allow me to alter a running or speed roll. They might allow me to narrate success for chase in bear form for one instance.

The GM can declare that all bears, in every instance, are slow. He can decide they get penalties to chase rolls. He can decide that we don't even make chase rolls. The GM could literally declare that gravity affects bears differently than every other object on the planet.

That's the difference between GM fiat and pro-player mechanics. Again, yes, they're both subject to abuse, but the abuse in one case is much more limited.

Seanchai

Okay, we're probably coming at this from different angles, and without an actual set of rules (or example of play), it's pretty hard to make out. Not all "player-empowering" mechanics are limited by the rules, for example, but you might have something specific in mind for your "pro-player" category.

Whereas in the board game Kingmaker everyone just goes around in circles through England until someone dies of the plague.

RPGPundit

Whereas in the board game Kingmaker everyone just goes around in circles through England until someone dies of the plague.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;302424Okay, we're probably coming at this from different angles, and without an actual set of rules (or example of play), it's pretty hard to make out. Not all "player-empowering" mechanics are limited by the rules, for example, but you might have something specific in mind for your "pro-player" category.

I'm thinking of two broad types. Examples of more freeform systems would be Adventure's dramatic editing and more rules bound ones would be Deadland's chips. What examples are you thinking of?

Seanchai