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GM Fiat

Started by One Horse Town, May 08, 2009, 04:47:42 AM

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Spinachcat

#15
May 08, 2009, 03:03:49 PM
Quote from: One Horse Town;300439I'm pretty sure we've had this one before, but i've been reading a thread over at tbp and it really got me wondering why some folk have such a bee in their bonet over it.

Because most forum posters are not gamers.   They are ex-gamers who just re-tread (or in this case, re-thread) some ancient memory of a pimply 14 year old not giving them a Vorpal sword at 1st level.

I love conventions.  In 30 years and over 120 conventions with easily 700+ games, I have had a handful of bad GMs.   99% have been okay, good or great.   And when you ask most con-goers about places like RPG.net, they never heard of it.

Gronan of Simmerya

#16
May 08, 2009, 03:17:21 PM
Quote from: King of Old School;300530Just once, I'd like to see someone actually address this...

KoOS


I, as referee, want rules so I, as referee, don't have to remember shit that I think "works about right".

Like how hard it is to hit a guy in full plate armor, or stuff.

Like I said above, the "rules" were "campaign notes".
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

The rules can\'t cure stupid, and the rules can\'t cure asshole.

Gronan of Simmerya

#17
May 08, 2009, 03:18:14 PM
Quote from: Benoist;300535Wrong about what? Wrong in the way others would end up playing the game and their expectations, or something else?

We were wrong about the things we thought were obvious really being obvious to other people who weren't us.
You should go to GaryCon.  Period.

The rules can\'t cure stupid, and the rules can\'t cure asshole.

KenHR

#18
May 08, 2009, 03:21:00 PM
Quote from: King of Old School;300530Just once, I'd like to see someone actually address this...

KoOS

Why don't you take a shot at it? :)
For fuck\'s sake, these are games, people.

And no one gives a fuck about your ignore list.


Gompan
band - other music

RPGPundit

#19
May 08, 2009, 03:24:07 PM
Quote from: Drohem;300496Well, I understand how the resentment against GM fiat could have developed and evolved.  In my early days of 1e AD&D my DM was a module-only DM who never strayed outside of the grey text.  If it was beyond the scope of the module, then it didn't happen or exist.  This was a serious source of frustration for me as a player, and I could see how this frustration could balloon into this reactionary anti-GM Fiat movement.  Now, with that being said, my personal view coincides pretty much with the general consensus here.

But surely, Drohem, that is an example of the problem with NOT using GM Fiat!
"The GM followed the Rules EXACTLY (just like Forgies want us to do) so clearly the problem is that he's gone mad with power and giving the GM authority sucks!"
That makes no sense.
Had that GM bothered to USE fiat, he could have shown things going on outside of the "grey text", and your game would have been better for it.

Yet instead of condemning him these people are condemning the idea of GM authority, and throwing their lot in with the "Grey Text Uber Alles" castrate-the-GM crowd? WTF?

RPGPundit
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Drohem

#20
May 08, 2009, 03:38:20 PM
Well, I was thinking about the arbitrary nature of saying that actions can not be taken because that eventuality was not addressed, nor foreseen, by a published module.

However, it's clear that I failed my Communication skill check this morning. :o:)

flyingmice

#21
May 08, 2009, 03:41:20 PM
Quote from: Drohem;300559Well, I was thinking about the arbitrary nature of saying that actions can not be taken because that eventuality was not addressed, nor foreseen, by a published module.

However, it's clear that I failed my Communication skill check this morning. :o:)

It's hard to talk with those big teeth, and harder to type with paws...

I give these excuses freely and without reservation of Intellectual Property. :D

-clash
clash bowley * Flying Mice Games - an Imprint of Better Mousetrap Games
Flying Mice home page: http://jalan.flyingmice.com/flyingmice.html
Currently Designing: StarCluster 4 - Wavefront Empire
Last Releases: SC4 - Dark Orbital, SC4 - Out of the Ruins,  SC4 - Sabre & World
Blog: I FLY BY NIGHT

King of Old School

#22
May 08, 2009, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: KenHR;300552Why don't you take a shot at it? :)
Why would I?  I'm not the one who thinks that, if you believe that games with rules should actually use those rules as a (har!) rule of thumb, you must think your GM is a complete rat bastard who should never be left alone with your children or your snacks.

KoOS
 

King of Old School

#23
May 08, 2009, 03:53:41 PM
Quote from: Old Geezer;300549I, as referee, want rules so I, as referee, don't have to remember shit that I think "works about right".

Like how hard it is to hit a guy in full plate armor, or stuff.

Like I said above, the "rules" were "campaign notes".
What you're describing isn't a game, it's a beta test for a game.

KoOS
 

King of Old School

#24
May 08, 2009, 03:56:29 PM
Quote from: Benoist;300534My answer is that if rules are convenient and may be helpful for all sorts of reasons, we don't actually "need" rules at all.
This doesn't quite parse in English.  Did you mean "while rules are convenient..."?

And my answer to that is if you don't need rules, you aren't playing a game.  You're indulging in some other hobby, the exact title of which I leave as an exercise for the reader.

KoOS
 

flyingmice

#25
May 08, 2009, 03:56:34 PM
Quote from: King of Old School;300567What you're describing isn't a game, it's a beta test for a game.

KoOS

So OD&D was a beta test for a game? Interesting opinion.

-clash
clash bowley * Flying Mice Games - an Imprint of Better Mousetrap Games
Flying Mice home page: http://jalan.flyingmice.com/flyingmice.html
Currently Designing: StarCluster 4 - Wavefront Empire
Last Releases: SC4 - Dark Orbital, SC4 - Out of the Ruins,  SC4 - Sabre & World
Blog: I FLY BY NIGHT

Idinsinuation

#26
May 08, 2009, 03:59:44 PM
My group's general consensus is that as long as we're having fun, you can use GM fiat to your heart's content.  I usually remain behind the screen until the gloves come off.  As the plot focuses I fiat very little if at all.  Early on though it can help to get everyone on the same page without some game derailing roadblock.
"A thousand fathers killed, a thousand virgin daughters spread, with swords still wet, with swords still wet, with the blood of their dead." - Protest the Hero

flyingmice

#27
May 08, 2009, 03:59:59 PM
Quote from: King of Old School;300569This doesn't quite parse in English.  Did you mean "while rules are convenient..."?

And my answer to that is if you don't need rules, you aren't playing a game.  You're indulging in some other hobby, the exact title of which I leave as an exercise for the reader.

KoOS

That would be roleplaying, what kids to with their action figures or adults do in the bedroom. :D

Roleplaying is natural, it's the game part that's difficult.

In other words I agree. Roleplaying without rules is not a game.

-clash
clash bowley * Flying Mice Games - an Imprint of Better Mousetrap Games
Flying Mice home page: http://jalan.flyingmice.com/flyingmice.html
Currently Designing: StarCluster 4 - Wavefront Empire
Last Releases: SC4 - Dark Orbital, SC4 - Out of the Ruins,  SC4 - Sabre & World
Blog: I FLY BY NIGHT

Idinsinuation

#28
May 08, 2009, 04:01:30 PM
Quote from: flyingmice;300572That would be roleplaying, what kids to with their action figures or adults do in the bedroom. :D

Roleplaying is natural, it's the game part that's difficult.

-clash

That depends on the game.  Some games/groups take setting so seriously that intrigue and RP within the scope of the world actually becomes the challenge.  Those games aren't for me but many people seem to enjoy them.
"A thousand fathers killed, a thousand virgin daughters spread, with swords still wet, with swords still wet, with the blood of their dead." - Protest the Hero

flyingmice

#29
May 08, 2009, 04:03:44 PM
Quote from: Idinsinuation;300573That depends on the game.  Some games/groups take setting so seriously that intrigue and RP within the scope of the world actually becomes the challenge.  Those games aren't for me but many people seem to enjoy them.

All games have rules. Sometimes the rules are unwritten and even denied, but they are there. Office Politics, for example, is a game.

-clash
clash bowley * Flying Mice Games - an Imprint of Better Mousetrap Games
Flying Mice home page: http://jalan.flyingmice.com/flyingmice.html
Currently Designing: StarCluster 4 - Wavefront Empire
Last Releases: SC4 - Dark Orbital, SC4 - Out of the Ruins,  SC4 - Sabre & World
Blog: I FLY BY NIGHT
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