Quote from: Bobloblah;556433Van Richten's Guide to Ghosts was (like most of Van Richten's Guides) an awesome sourcebook layered on top of the AD&D rules. Well worth it if you're planning on making this scenario a significant milestone in your campaign.

Agreed. Although, those guides are full of pure gold for the various horror monsters.

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;556526Agreed. Although, those guides are full of pure gold for the various horror monsters.

Absolutely! Actually, if the 'Delver is looking to run a much more horror oriented campaign, he could do worse than to pick them up. They all layer on top of the standard AD&D monsters, making those monsters soooo much more than sword bait. Ghosts, Vampires and the Lich guides are particularly good.

Thanks, Butcher. Cyclopedia, not Compendium. Eesh.

Quote from: Benoist;556469Ghosts are awesome and super dangerous.

Don't get me wrong about my character dying because them are the breaks but back then it was NOT a fun experience for a newish player like I was. Hence the reason for my cautious (some may call it being a scaredycat or paranoia but I beg to differ) playstyle today.

And I still think it's a bit of overkill but the game back then wasn't meant to be fair exactly so I understand it but I definitely still disagree with it.

Quote from: Bobloblah;556533Absolutely! Actually, if the 'Delver is looking to run a much more horror oriented campaign, he could do worse than to pick them up. They all layer on top of the standard AD&D monsters, making those monsters soooo much more than sword bait. Ghosts, Vampires and the Lich guides are particularly good.

Definitely. I think I would agree with those being the best of the crop, too.

Quote from: Marleycat;556556Don't get me wrong about my character dying because them are the breaks but back then it was NOT a fun experience for a newish player like I was. Hence the reason for my cautious (some may call it being a scaredycat or paranoia but I beg to differ) playstyle today.

And I still think it's a bit of overkill but the game back then wasn't meant to be fair exactly so I understand it but I definitely still disagree with it.

I should know better than to answer this post and to be honest, I've resisted three tries so far but it looks like the fourth is going to be it. To this end, this will be my ONLY post in answer to this. I will NOT threadcrap this wonderful thread more than it needs to.

That said. NO, I don't think you do understand. A ghost is a 10 HD monster, meant for veteran adventurers. Either your DM made you face a Ghost way too early in your adventurer's career, OR you started the character at a WAY higher level than you should have as a newbie because there is NO WAY you would get to level 10-ish and call yourself a "newbie" by then in AD&D, OR your DM was a total dick in just springing the Ghost on you with no chance whatsoever to know what you were potentially facing or to retreat when you realized the danger.

What you faced was a bad understanding of the game, and bad DMing, assuming plain bad oblivious playing wasn't involved in the first place. I don't know the particulars obviously, but it just grinds my gears when that kind of bullshit is used as an excuse to say "well, I wish the game was something else". Just my two cents. IMO, YMMV etc. See sig.

/only post in answer to this.

Ghosts in AD&D aren't the librarian at the beginning of Ghostbusters, I think. They're more like Viggo in Ghostbusters 2.

They're on a level with Balors, for example.

Quote from: Benoist;556659I should know better than to answer this post and to be honest, I've resisted three tries so far but it looks like the fourth is going to be it. To this end, this will be my ONLY post in answer to this. I will NOT threadcrap this wonderful thread more than it needs to.

That said. NO, I don't think you do understand. A ghost is a 10 HD monster, meant for veteran adventurers. Either your DM made you face a Ghost way too early in your adventurer's career, OR you started the character at a WAY higher level than you should have as a newbie because there is NO WAY you would get to level 10-ish and call yourself a "newbie" by then in AD&D, OR your DM was a total dick in just springing the Ghost on you with no chance whatsoever to know what you were potentially facing or to retreat when you realized the danger.

What you faced was a bad understanding of the game, and bad DMing, assuming plain bad oblivious playing wasn't involved in the first place. I don't know the particulars obviously, but it just grinds my gears when that kind of bullshit is used as an excuse to say "well, I wish the game was something else". Just my two cents. IMO, YMMV etc. See sig.

/only post in answer to this.

Character in question was 6th level 2e fighter.  I thought it was a dick move at the time but was told this is Dnd hon.  Like I said, it altered my playstyle but I didn't quit.

'parently this has gone awry-wise, so allow me to re-state a few thingamapoints in this here discussion:

I did not throw a ghost at a low level force.  I threw a "terrible, horrifying paranormal presence" at a player who was stumbling around in the dark.

post ex facto, I decided that if the party ever, ever goes into that area again the mechanics of it will be a Ghost per the AD&D rules, because it strongly mechanically fits the terror I was going for, because what it does is outside of what every other "powerful" undead does - it possess them or actually scares people to death as opposed to level drain, which is what the Ted The Caver story is all about (fear).

Given how they "work" in AD&D, it entirely fits, so that's what's there.

I hope this clears up any confusion, at least regarding my original post.

@Benoist, my circle tends to start at 2nd level. In this case it was my first campaign style game, not one shot just for context. I'm not saying I disagree with you but because of that singular experience I don't ever see myself fully agreeing with you on this singular issue /instance.

Quote from: Kaldric;556665Ghosts in AD&D aren't the librarian at the beginning of Ghostbusters, I think. They're more like Viggo in Ghostbusters 2.

They're on a level with Balors, for example.

(well, "Balor" is the name of a Type VI demon, but yes, agree)

Quote from: Marleycat;556680@Benoist, my circle tends to start at 2nd level. In this case it was my first campaign style game, not one shot just for context. I'm not saying I disagree with you but because of that singular experience I don't ever see myself fully agreeing with you on this singular issue /instance.

I will say, from my experiences as an AD&D2e player and DM...that sounds almost dickish enough that I'm surprised that you didn't quit roleplaying games altogether (or at least swear off of playing, and just GM).

I admit...I've been scarred by some absolutely horrible GMs, which is why I rarely ever venture to the "player" side of the screen.

Quote from: Tommy Brownell;556694I will say, from my experiences as an AD&D2e player and DM...that sounds almost dickish enough that I'm surprised that you didn't quit roleplaying games altogether (or at least swear off of playing, and just GM).

I admit...I've been scarred by some absolutely horrible GMs, which is why I rarely ever venture to the "player" side of the screen.

That is in fact what I did. I just was dumb enough to do it with Mage.

With Dnd I've been lucky enough to have some seriously good DM'S.  I use Fantasy Craft and Pathfinder currently to scratch my Dnd itch. Said so to Wotc also.

Quote from: Bobloblah;556533Absolutely! Actually, if the 'Delver is looking to run a much more horror oriented campaign, he could do worse than to pick them up. They all layer on top of the standard AD&D monsters, making those monsters soooo much more than sword bait. Ghosts, Vampires and the Lich guides are particularly good.

Well I'll never turn down a source of inspiration, wherever I get it.  I'll see if I can track it down, although I do not as a matter of course run horror/AD&D hybrid type games.  I tend to think of my AD&D as more fantasy-adventure, less horror-fantasy.  The story put me in a "mood" to try and see if I could actually scare a player-character, and it worked!  The ghost idea just came along later.

I have to say I found some of the advice in Heroes of Horror useful. Mostly the advice about just injecting some creepiness, about what inspires dread and what doesn't. I don't tend to consume a lot of horror fiction, novels or movies, so a lot of the stuff was new to me.

@TDD: Ah, but what are the names of the other 5?