We all know the generic functions of dragons in a game: big iconic boss monster, treasure piñata, one-monster town wrecker, well-documented apex threat for PCs to anticipate fighting, and in some interpretations a vehicle for 'cool' dialogue and a conspiracy linchpin.

But I feel that sometimes the place that dragon species occupy in many fictional universes is a little vague or poorly thought out, especially in relation to humanoids (which are often supposed to be special despite standing in the shadow of reptilian demi-gods) and the treasure hoards they accumulate for some reason.

What have been your favorite implementations of dragons as setting element, not just a game element? Non-game examples are welcome.

Dragons as transport, of course!

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;954718We all know the generic functions of dragons in a game: big iconic boss monster, treasure piñata, one-monster town wrecker, well-documented apex threat for PCs to anticipate fighting . . .

Really?



Larry Elmore's art makes me want to squirt brown gravy but he absolutely fucking nails the niche of dragons in early D&D with that. All that 'dragons as DEMI-GAWDS!' shit stunk up fantasy roleplaying later.

I like dragons as roving flying tanks. They are crazy dangerous, but can be taken down by mid-level heroes.

RuneQuest had a cool idea that there were Real Dragons who were scary gawds, but their dreams created violent, avaricious dragons who were encountered out in the world and were tough, but killable.

Rifts has a cool take on dragons, and definitely made them viable PCs.

My latest 5th ed campaign uses dragons as an anamorphic stand-in for forms of government or lack thereof. Example: An ancient white dragon annihilated the dwarf's king and government and turned their crop lands into an arctic waste. So they've been driven underground with no system for governance and no clear way of recreating society. He's basically a personification of anarchy.

Here's how we addressed them in ZWEIHÄNDER:

QuoteNo creature has entered the mythos of different cultures
more than the legendary dragon. They are a symbol of might,
intelligence and worship... or at least they once were.
Dragons used to rule the land, sentient and highly intelligent
creatures who would ravage farmlands and destroy entire
cities when their wrath was piqued. They were massive
reptilian creatures, born aloft on leathery wings and being
lined with scales as hard as steel. In the early ages, they were
considered to be the de facto rulers of all they surveyed, worshipped
by frightful mortals who sacrificed virginal maidens
at the mouths of their great lairs. However, legends tell
of a powerful warrior-princess who banished the mightiest
of dragons, slaying its brood and casting the rest into the
deep darkness of the Abyss. Within the endless pit, over the
ages the dragons slowly mutated and lost their intelligence,
turning into little more than pure killing machines. Most of
these new Pit Dragons are thankfully stuck within the confines
of the Abyss, but an unlucky Æthereal breach can cause
one to return to the Material Realm once again.

Pit Dragons are terribly vile and lustful brutes - their main
weapon either being their rending claws or their trademark
breath of flames and bile. Note that not all Pit Dragons are
the same - some may be born aloft on feathered wings or
Magickal energies, while other may breathe toxic miasma or
even biting frost. Many myths abound about Pit Dragons,
the most common being their tendency to hoard treasure in
their lair. This is true to an extent - Pit Dragon nests tend to
be full of tarnished metal, broken coins and shattered jewels,
but that is only because the Pit Dragon cannot digest
these items as they once did, meaning that most of them
were probably vomited back up. Though the energies of the
Abyss have made them feral, every once in a while a gleam
of their former intellect shines through. Some Pit Dragons
have been said to have moments of complete lucidity before
descending back into snarling beastdom.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;954734Larry Elmore's art makes me want to squirt brown gravy but he absolutely fucking nails the niche of dragons in early D&D with that. All that 'dragons as DEMI-GAWDS!' shit stunk up fantasy roleplaying later.

Yeah, really.  You're woefully ignorant about the history of Dragons as a mythological beast if you think that stupid Elmore picture is actually representative of what Dragons were.  Hell, if anything, D&D pussified them, by allowing small teams of puny humans to be able to hurt one of them.  All the legends, myths, lies and stories about them, natural disasters blamed on them because the average human being a mere 400 years ago was still a superstitious coward with no inkling of how the basics of physics worked (and it's the AVERAGE HUMAN BEING here, not the scholars I'm talking about and even they had weird ideas that we've managed to debunk.)  They all have one thing in common, Dragons were thought to be unstoppable raging engines of destruction that only armies or the greatest of heroes could defeat, and a lot of the time, they needed help to do so.

We can ever pick a more recent tale, one that a lot of people still consider relevant:  The Hobbit, and the Dragon, Smaug.  Not some mere tiny thing with a box of of treasure, this beast decided that he wanted a Dwarven home and all the treasure in it for himself.  And NOTHING stopped him from taking it.

Dragons have always been seen as big, nasty and nearly impossible to defeat.

Go read, it might do you some good.

The great picture by Elmore is from the 2e PHB I believe. And 2e is where dragons got a HUGE boost in power, making them and giants among the most powerful monsters on the Prime Material Plane.

I always liked that conception of dragons as it seems to fit the myth of dragons as the most fearsome monsters around well. Previously they felt underpowered against a party although I guess that could be argued to be in line with the sole knight killing a dragon myths.

One of my fondest memories of 2e was an epic fight against a dragon, think it was a huge ancient red one, that ended with only the paladin surviving and managing just, but just to kill it. The rest of the party died suddenly in the last few rounds.

I've imported some of 2e's rules about spellcasting, magic resistance and very high armor class into 5e for that reason. Haven't had a real knock down drag out fight with one yet though (just the appearence of the green dragon in Lost Mine of Phandelver but the party was smart enough to avoid that fight).

I think it was in Council of Wyrms for 2e that they had some cool details about the lifecycle of a dragon and its relationship to its treasure that I really liked and  want to steal.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;954791We can ever pick a more recent tale, one that a lot of people still consider relevant:  The Hobbit, and the Dragon, Smaug.  Not some mere tiny thing with a box of of treasure, this beast decided that he wanted a Dwarven home and all the treasure in it for himself.  And NOTHING stopped him from taking it.

Can someone remind me why Smaug sat on treasure all day?

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;954828Can someone remind me why Smaug sat on treasure all day?

Because he's a dragon. The dragons in old Germanic tales often did the same (Beowulf for instance)

I think the best detailed RPG description of dragons that I have seen is in the Scandinavian Dragons & Demons (Drakar och Demoner) Monster Book (I have the Danish version). The powers of the dragon relates directly to its age: young dragons are dangerous but relatively manageable, but old dragons can wreak serious havoc, and an ancient dragon is a one-individual superpower. There's lots of other good info in there too.

I've read that Dave Arneson's Adventures in Fantasy had a really good dragon generator.

Chinese dragons have interesting roles in the world, affecting the weather and so on. Various types and personalities and effects. Worth a look.

Quote from: Trond;954829Because he's a dragon.

So no reason, no magical, mythical, spiritual, psychological or ecological justification appeared at any point in Tolkien's work? Not even a single sentence? I can understand that in old Germanic tales of course, but I'm a bit surprised regarding the Hobbit.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;954791You're woefully ignorant about the history of Dragons as a mythological beast if you think that stupid Elmore picture is actually representative of what Dragons were.

You are so fucking stupid.