Quote from: RPGPundit;1043493Well, it's clearly not a political debate in any sense right now, because there are ZERO conventions where right-wing panelists are invited to attend. There's an awful lot that are full of feminist bloggers who despise gaming telling us how toxic we are, while people who fail the Social-justice test are forcibly ejected from the convention floor.

If regular convention attendees are being ejected for no good reason, then talk about that. That sounds bad to me if it is really happening.

Instead, the tragedies that I'm hearing about is that some people are being denied their God-given right to be guest of honor, or people are being horrendously forced to have a politically-related talk somewhere in the same hotel that they are gaming at.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1043523Being an RPG writer does seem to be a relatively thankless job (or 'low-thank job' maybe). The pay is suboptimal, you have to spend a bunch of time and travel (or now online work) promoting your product and personal brand, and you subject yourself to the critiques of a loud and unpleasable fan base.

believe me, I know
https://rpggeek.com/rpgdesigner/5756/brant-guillory

Quote from: jhkim;1043465It feels to me anal-retentive to call for every convention to have an even balance of political views in their guests, or worse, that the guests have to match one's own politics. It's game convention, not a political debate.

There are people on different places in the political spectrum who do care a lot about the politics of guests of honor - and will raise a stink for having the wrong guest, because they feel it affects them in a bad way.

You are all entitled to your opinion, but I would encourage people to be more open-minded and willing to go to a convention even if it doesn't match their own politics. People can attend a convention and have fun gaming together, despite political differences.

Nope, I'd much rather that the people arranging a large con try to make the place more neutral overall, because it has been getting extremely one-sided. It really isn't difficult either; they're inviting interesting people as special guests anyway. If they include Sarkeesian, why not invite e.g. Desborough? (and throw out anyone who tries to turn on the fire alarm or any shit like that) I do remember, years ago, some wacky far-right people coming for debates at conventions, talking about the dangers of magic and such. It was ridiculous, but now I almost miss them. The early calls for feminism and warnings about cultural sensitivity have turned into an endless drone, and it is starting to drive me insane. And I am not even a Republican. People pay to go to conventions that they like, and if they don't like it, they're not going to go.

Quote from: S'mon;1043502You know they didn't make left wing conventions. They just took over existing ones.

I do wish some convention organisers would stand up to the SJW mob. What they did to NTRPGcon was shameful - harassment in the name of anti-harassment. But I understand why people think it's not worth fighting.

I was there at the 2017 Comic-Con, and it was pretty bad. Some people were roaming through the hallways calling out to folks asking them to look out for microaggressions against blacks etc, making the whole floor uncomfortable. There was some nervous clapping, but in general nobody spoke out for fear of being called a nazi sympathizer. Another incident (that I didn't see), was some woman who was targeted for "black face" or "cultural appropriation" because she was dressed like Whoopi Goldberg's star trek character.

Quote from: jhkim;1043465It feels to me anal-retentive to call for every convention to have an even balance of political views in their guests, or worse, that the guests have to match one's own politics. It's game convention, not a political debate.

I think that's what we've all been essentially saying for many many many threads. But people want to throw invectives at one another for their perceived stance on a political position.

Quote from: jhkim;1043465There are people on different places in the political spectrum who do care a lot about the politics of guests of honor - and will raise a stink for having the wrong guest, because they feel it affects them in a bad way.

But there *is* a distinction between having a guest of honor with a politcal view or stripe, and one that has a political axe to grind for their own self-serving interests. Sarkeesian is the latter Correia is the former. It doesn't help that the people running the convention also have a political axe to grind, and it seems they wish to do it on the heads of the fans. Surely you see this in other media? I refuse to believe you're not blind to it. To the degree that you are open to having those political agendas pounded down your throat is, of course, up to you.

Quote from: jhkim;1043465You are all entitled to your opinion, but I would encourage people to be more open-minded and willing to go to a convention even if it doesn't match their own politics. People can attend a convention and have fun gaming together, despite political differences.

I disagree. Encouraging someone to go to a place, today, where their politics are not matching with the Convention-runners is not the issue *at all*. When you're *not allowed* to voice your disagreement, or simply not show support for the politics in question without fear of potential retribution - seems to be the real issue. And it seems to come from the same side of the political divide. And why in the world would I support that? Especially given that we both agree it shouldn't even be ABOUT politics in gaming?

It's a secular religious movement now. I'd no sooner go to a Scientology Gaming Convention and support them than I would a bunch of neo-leftist nobs that are insistent that if you don't support *their* unreasoned opinions about reality you're a mysoginst, Nazi, bigot, homophobe.

Nah, I'll give my money to other people that are sane and make good things I like. I'm happy to watch Marvel, Star Wars, WotC, EA, and all the other converged companies putting their ideology before their products burn down to the ground. While they try to cut the throats of their primary fanbase,unnecessarily, so they can virtue-signal to the self-loathing ultra-minority that they believe is going to earn them some special place in SJW-Heaven, and we should support that? I'll be there with others to pick up the pieces. And all this newly fertile land will be ours!

Meanwhile I'm stockpiling on marshmallows and sticks (and maybe a little lighter fluid).

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1041869What is becoming increasingly apparent to me is that sexuality and the politics of sexuality is of far greater interest to certain people than playing tabletop RPGs.

Indeed.

Quote from: jhkim;1043524If regular convention attendees are being ejected for no good reason, then talk about that. That sounds bad to me if it is really happening.

What do you mean by good reason? For example, the Honey Badgers were thrown out of Calgary Expo for engaging with a panel, and while they took that opportunity to monologue rather than ask questions, I still don't think it justifies removing them from the event.

And the reason Larry Correia was dropped as a guest is because someone claimed he made (specifically 'brown' people) feel unsafe. Not because of his politics. Not because of his pro-gun stance. Not even because of his Sad Puppies involvement. Because he was _dangerous_.

Which of course is the biggest load of horseshit imaginable.

And then they bring on Anita Sarkeesian, someone with an actual political agenda, who bullied attendees and fellow panelists at VidCon, and all but tells people they're bad for liking certain games.

So sorry, this is transparently political, and how the end of rpg.net began.

Quote from: Trond;1043539Another incident (that I didn't see), was some woman who was targeted for "black face" or "cultural appropriation" because she was dressed like Whoopi Goldberg's star trek character.

And the black woman calling it out is wearing a referee uniform.

Seriously, I can't make this shit up.

I don't care what "wing" gets represented at which con. I just feel bad for the Gen Con goes who have to deal with the convention sliding into the rpg.net "Inclusive, but not for you, Nazi" mindset. Anita is the harbinger of that. We've had years of her trying to push her social/political agenda onto video games. Now table top has to deal with her foul stench.

Quote from: Trond;1043539I was there at the 2017 Comic-Con, and it was pretty bad. Some people were roaming through the hallways calling out to folks asking them to look out for microaggressions against blacks etc, making the whole floor uncomfortable. There was some nervous clapping, but in general nobody spoke out for fear of being called a nazi sympathizer. Another incident (that I didn't see), was some woman who was targeted for "black face" or "cultural appropriation" because she was dressed like Whoopi Goldberg's star trek character.

This is the kind of SocJus harassment makes me worried about taking my son to conventions. I don't want him to see people being treated like that. I especially don't want to pay for the privilege.

Dragonmeet was fine again last year despite their anti-harassment policy, but the SJWs get more extreme every year, and I don't want to be there when it turns into what you describe above. I have a weaboo friend who likes to cosplay in Japanese costume, I don't want to see her being harassed by socjus scum.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1043549I don't care what "wing" gets represented at which con. I just feel bad for the Gen Con goes who have to deal with the convention sliding into the rpg.net "Inclusive, but not for you, Nazi" mindset. Anita is the harbinger of that. We've had years of her trying to push her social/political agenda onto video games. Now table top has to deal with her foul stench.

Have you BEEN to GenCon lately?  Like other conventions, it's multiple conventions in one, and it's so freaking huge you would have to work really hard to even FIND the guest of honor seminars.

I went last year, and nobody asked me about my views on race, sexuality, gender fluidity, or any of that other shit, even once.

I DID get asked about gaming a lot, though.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043563Have you BEEN to GenCon lately?  Like other conventions, it's multiple conventions in one, and it's so freaking huge you would have to work really hard to even FIND the guest of honor seminars.

Nope. I don't live in the area, so it's not easy to get to.

QuoteI went last year, and nobody asked me about my views on race, sexuality, gender fluidity, or any of that other shit, even once.

I DID get asked about gaming a lot, though.

I'm curious how this year plays out.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1043571Nope. I don't live in the area, so it's not easy to get to.

It's ridiculously expensive, too.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1043571I'm curious how this year plays out.

I honestly believe most people will be totally unaffected by it.  It is not only huge population wise, it's huge in acreage; it covers multiple city blocks.

There's just too much "THERE" there.

Some people might be hurt by the politics, yes, and that's too bad.  But it will happen in small ways (which does not make it acceptable).

Quote from: jhkim;1043524Instead, the tragedies that I'm hearing about is that some people are being denied their God-given right to be guest of honor, or people are being horrendously forced to have a politically-related talk somewhere in the same hotel that they are gaming at.

How do you think GenCon would react to a Gamers for Free Speech rally on opening day?

Politics divides, gaming unites. Why shouldn't game cons be about uniting people instead of inciting further divisions?

Quote from: tenbones;1043543It's a secular religious movement now.

It's the 80s church ladies again, but much fatter and with shit in their face, but without the ability to bake.

At least the Satanic Panic made RPGs cool. SJWs make everything suck.

Quote from: tenbones;1043543Meanwhile I'm stockpiling on marshmallows and sticks (and maybe a little lighter fluid).

I'll bring the long pork forks and the charcoal!

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043563Have you BEEN to GenCon lately?  Like other conventions, it's multiple conventions in one, and it's so freaking huge you would have to work really hard to even FIND the guest of honor seminars.

You're right about that.

GenCon is huge and most attendees won't interact with the SJW brigade. Most attendees don't even read through the convention book and just use it to plot their events, but even that's minimal as most people just find their zone and stick with it for the weekend. AKA, RPGers in the RPG section, Organized Play in their zone, Wargamers at the minis rooms, etc. The only major crossover areas are the Dealer's Room and the Food Court.

But that's still no excuse for bringing ANY form of politics into GenCon. "Most people aren't going to drink the OJ so it's cool if we shit in it" is NOT a good plan.

I agree politics have no place there, but my point (and I do have one) is that it will NOT be the end of GenCon, gaming, and the entire universe.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043583I agree politics have no place there, but my point (and I do have one) is that it will NOT be the end of GenCon, gaming, and the entire universe.

Of course not. But I suspect it will get more obnoxiously political and activist oriented as time goes by.

Could be, could not... I'm not sure I'm going to worry about it, since I'll never go to GenCon again, unless I'm paid to again.

"Always in motion is the future."