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https://www.gencon.com/experience/industrygoh (https://www.gencon.com/experience/industrygoh)

Well GENCON has been thoroughly infiltrated. Anita Sarkeesian (need I say more) and 2 SJW moderators.

Fuck, scooped. I tried posting this in the Pundit's Forum but it hasn't gotten approved to post there yet.

Yeah, I predicted that GenCon was going SJW a few years ago and they would not receive my money because of it, this is just more proof.

Because really, what in the fuck does Anita Sarkeesian have to do with tabletop RPGs as a hobby or an industry?

Oh, I can't  wait for Anita's cherry picked examples of crimes against  female NPCs! So excited!

More like guests of horror..

If SJW's are the new Religious Right, then Anita Sarkeesian is the new Jack Chick.

The only difference is that Jack Chick was funny and entertaining, if in an ironic sort of way.

Who goes to Gen Con to listen to the guests?

I doubt I could come up with one guest from the previous 40 years of Gen Con, although if I don't have to name a year I suppose Gary Gygax was probably a guest one time. :)

Anita Sarkeesian like Anita hole in the head

*bada-ching*

Thanks I'm here all week.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;1041570Thanks I'm here all week.

LOL

Yep, this is all to launch her follow up to Tropes vs. Women in Video Games.

You guessed it! Tropes vs. Women in Tabletop Games.

She'll hang around no longer than she has to in order to launch and promote that.

You read it here first.

I already wasn't going. Now I have to figure out a way to not go twice.

Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1041577I already wasn't going. Now I have to figure out a way to not go twice.

Nicely put.

MUCH as I hate to interrupt the swooning and repining, GenCon is so fucking big and so fucking disorganized that their "guests of honor" are utterly irrelevant.

GENCON has become a "pan-con" much like DragonCon and ComicCon.  There are thousands of anime cosplayers who have never played a game, media fans of various varieties, hogs, frogs, dogs, cats, bats, rats, goats, boats, and stoats.

The overwhelming majority of attendees neither know nor care about any of the guests or panels.

I have 99 reasons never to return to GenCon, but who their stupid guests of honor are ain't one.

I was there last year, incidentally.

Nobody cares about the guests of honor like Gronan said. It's social media fare. I still think it's awful she's being recognized but GenCon is run out of Seattle now.

I wish guests of honor actually liked games and gamers but it is what it is

The problem is not that she's at Gencon, it was that they figured that she was IMPORTANT enough to invite in the first place.

I don't go to GEn Con based who the Guests of Honor are.
 
I go there to see friends that only see there each year. These are friends I made between 2000 and 2008 when the Klingon Jail & Bail for charity was going on.
Almost wish I didn't have to pay Gen Con to see my old friends.


- Ed C.

Normally I'm a "Well, I don't care what so-and-so does at their table, I don't care if they're into tabletop gaming" but honestly, I don't want her in my hobby.  I don't.  I really, really do not.  I'm not saying women in general, I'm not saying people whose political ideals don't align with mine, I mean her, her specifically.  Kind of like I don't want that multiple kickstarter scammer dude in my hobby.  For many of the same reasons, even.

GenCon was never seriously on my radar* , and it's definitely not now.  

The only thing that would really worry me is if she wormed her way into GaryCon.  That would be troubling.

...

* - well it was but only for a humorous, petty reason that has long since passed...

Quote from: Lurtch;1041612Nobody cares about the guests of honor like Gronan said. It's social media fare. I still think it's awful she's being recognized but GenCon is run out of Seattle now.

I wish guests of honor actually liked games and gamers but it is what it is

Quoted for truth.

Anita & RPGPundit can team up for #DnDgate! Let Twitter burn!

For epic LoLz, let's hope the very worst of Gamergate get wind of GenCon's antics.

JiffyPop is my stock pick for this week!

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1041590MUCH as I hate to interrupt the swooning and repining, GenCon is so fucking big and so fucking disorganized that their "guests of honor" are utterly irrelevant.

GENCON has become a "pan-con" much like DragonCon and ComicCon.  There are thousands of anime cosplayers who have never played a game, media fans of various varieties, hogs, frogs, dogs, cats, bats, rats, goats, boats, and stoats.

The overwhelming majority of attendees neither know nor care about any of the guests or panels.

I have 99 reasons never to return to GenCon, but who their stupid guests of honor are ain't one.

We are sorry we interrupted your jerking off to pictures of Anita.

Like Gronan, I don't particularly care who the guests of honor are. I couldn't tell you who the guests of honor were for previous Gen Con, or for pretty much any convention I've been to. I'm there to game.

My main issue with Sarkeesian is that as far as I know, all her commentary has been about video gaming, not tabletop gaming. So she seems like an odd choice.

But I don't make any sort of deal over conservative guests of honor at a con. I think it would be good if there were guests of differing politics, actually. I realize that's a stretch, though, since most people don't actually want free speech and open exchange of ideas - they just want to crap on what they see as the opposing side.

Quote from: jhkim;1041628Like Gronan, I don't particularly care who the guests of honor are. I couldn't tell you who the guests of honor were for previous Gen Con, or for pretty much any convention I've been to. I'm there to game.

My main issue with Sarkeesian is that as far as I know, all her commentary has been about video gaming, not tabletop gaming. So she seems like an odd choice.

But I don't make any sort of deal over conservative guests of honor at a con. I think it would be good if there were guests of differing politics, actually. I realize that's a stretch, though, since most people don't actually want free speech and open exchange of ideas - they just want to crap on what they see as the opposing side.

Have there been conservative guests at gaming conventions who have gone specifically to push their political agenda, though?

I don't know what annoys me more - Origins disinviting Larry Correia, or Gencon inviting Anita Sarkeesian.

Quote from: waltshumate;1041626We are sorry we interrupted your jerking off to pictures of Anita.

3/10

Anita Sarkeesian is part of the reason why I became a Cowboy.

On one hand, I agree with those who say the GoH doesn't matter. Most attendees never interact with the GoH. When I was involved with the LA Cons, we focused on getting GoHs who ran games and the "Play with the Creator" events were a hit. John Wick (L5R, 7th Sea) gets some crap on this forum (sometimes with good reason), but Wick is a great guest. He runs lots of events, shows off new stuff and his fans have a good time. Andy Looney of Looney Labs (Flux) is another excellent GoH.

HOWEVER...the GoH of a convention gets a lot of press. As the GoH is supposed to be a marketing draw, they are featured heavily in the advertising of the con and on-site with the con booklet, etc. Even if you don't interact with the GoH, the name and association is in the air. We can say we don't pay attention to billboards or buy what they are selling, but we all know that billboards work, otherwise nobody would pay for them.

So now GenCon has tied itself to an extremely divisive figure who has NOTHING to do with the tabletop hobby.

And we all know why.

May the worst of Gamergate crawl from their internet lairs and make their way to Indianapolis.

GenCon deserves nothing less.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1041643On one hand, I agree with those who say the GoH doesn't matter. Most attendees never interact with the GoH. When I was involved with the LA Cons, we focused on getting GoHs who ran games and the "Play with the Creator" events were a hit. John Wick (L5R, 7th Sea) gets some crap on this forum (sometimes with good reason), but Wick is a great guest. He runs lots of events, shows off new stuff and his fans have a good time. Andy Looney of Looney Labs (Flux) is another excellent GoH.

HOWEVER...the GoH of a convention gets a lot of press. As the GoH is supposed to be a marketing draw, they are featured heavily in the advertising of the con and on-site with the con booklet, etc. Even if you don't interact with the GoH, the name and association is in the air. We can say we don't pay attention to billboards or buy what they are selling, but we all know that billboards work, otherwise nobody would pay for them.

So now GenCon has tied itself to an extremely divisive figure who has NOTHING to do with the tabletop hobby.

And we all know why.

May the worst of Gamergate crawl from their internet lairs and make their way to Indianapolis.

GenCon deserves nothing less.

I agree with this statement in its entirety.

We Cowboys hate SJW hipster scum like Anita Sarkeesian, and the virtue signallers who enable them too!

Quote from: jhkim;1041628I think it would be good if there were guests of differing politics, actually. I realize that's a stretch, though, since most people don't actually want free speech and open exchange of ideas - they just want to crap on what they see as the opposing side.

No GoH should be spewing politics at a game convention. I don't care if I agree with them or not. GenCon is a gathering of gamers whose commonality is love of games. Why fuck up that friendly commonality by inserting divisive elements that have nothing to do with gaming?

If RPGPundit was a GoH, I would not want to hear him discuss politics or his Swine Crusade. If he was a GoH, his involvement should be about his games. If he wants to host a private gathering to discuss politics, that's fine, but NOT as part of the convention.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;10416363/10

That's not fair.  I'd give her at least a 6 or 7.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1041590MUCH as I hate to interrupt the swooning and repining, GenCon is so fucking big and so fucking disorganized that their "guests of honor" are utterly irrelevant.

The overwhelming majority of attendees neither know nor care about any of the guests or panels.

I have 99 reasons never to return to GenCon, but who their stupid guests of honor are ain't one.

Not quite. The players rarely care or can even attend some of these due to the sometimes fees for the "honour". But, and this is why some actually git irked over all this, is the fact that designers and occasional execs and the rare distributor do attend these things and Nutcases spewing their latest screed can end up infesting product or causing trouble down the line.  You can bet good money that Anita will poison a few minds while there because she is really good at weaving falsehoods with cherry-picked examples and then champion how to "fix" things. Which will make the allready troubled RPG biz even more precarious.

The fact that this grifter has set her sights on GenCon is ample reason for concern.

But at the end of the day. Who cares? Anyone gullible enough to fall for her spiel deserves to crash and burn.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1041639Anita Sarkeesian is part of the reason why I became a Cowboy.

Gotta have a horse to be a cowboy, kid.

The thing about her showing up as a panelist...

If...I dunno, "Joe Smith, Random Internet Complainer" sat down and did a panel, he might generate a tiny bit of controversy, but of course we don't know him, and as pointed out Gen Con panelists so who cares.

But Sarkeesian brings her own baggage, and it is large.  She drags a comet-tail of virtue signalers and white knights and on and on behind her.

Quote from: Omega;1041654But, and this is why some actually git irked over all this, is the fact that designers and occasional execs and the rare distributor do attend these things and Nutcases spewing their latest screed can end up infesting product or causing trouble down the line.  You can bet good money that Anita will poison a few minds while there because she is really good at weaving falsehoods with cherry-picked examples and then champion how to "fix" things. Which will make the allready troubled RPG biz even more precarious.

This is the sort of language I associate with anti-free-speech arguments.  The opposition's words are "poison" that will "infest" others if they're allowed to talk. The implied conclusion is that they have to be silenced to prevent this infestation.

I disagree. And in particular, I don't think one can deploy this kind of argument - and simultaneously have a problem with opponents who do the same.

Quote from: jhkim;1041669This is the sort of language I associate with anti-free-speech arguments.  The opposition's words are "poison" that will "infest" others if they're allowed to talk. The implied conclusion is that they have to be silenced to prevent this infestation.

I disagree. And in particular, I don't think one can deploy this kind of argument - and simultaneously have a problem with opponents who do the same.

Nice try.
The difference being, Omega's not going to don a mask and throw a brick at her head.  He's saying she will have an effect, no matter how much people might think no one cares, and she shouldn't have been chosen.  However, having been chosen, he's not saying she has no right to speak.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1041575LOL

Yep, this is all to launch her follow up to Tropes vs. Women in Video Games.

You guessed it! Tropes vs. Women in Tabletop Games.

She'll hang around no longer than she has to in order to launch and promote that.

You read it here first.

What other reason is there to honor her other than to say "Hey, our hobby needs Anita too?" #TableTopToo

I'm glad Anita is attending.

It let's me know who amongst the tabletop developers don't want my money. The woman is terrible at promoting anything except her fucked up view of the world. When she promoted a "good game" on her channel?

Nobody bought it. Not a single up tick in sales for the month. She can't harm the hobby, only the reputations of the people who support her.

Quote from: jhkim;1041669This is the sort of language I associate with anti-free-speech arguments.  The opposition's words are "poison" that will "infest" others if they're allowed to talk. The implied conclusion is that they have to be silenced to prevent this infestation.

I disagree. And in particular, I don't think one can deploy this kind of argument - and simultaneously have a problem with opponents who do the same.

Would you support having Milo as a guest of honour at Gencon? He is the anti SJW equivalent of Sarkeesian.

Quote from: S'mon;1041674Would you support having Milo as a guest of honour at Gencon? He is the anti SJW equivalent of Sarkeesian.

I would not give a shit, in equal measure.

Who the fuck is Milo?

But on a good note, of the three honored guests, one is actually a game designer, Jordan Wiseman, worthy of the honor, whose companies include...

• FASA (Star Trek, Battletech, Shadowrun, Earthdawn, Crimson Skies)
• Virtual Worlds (Battletech Pods)
• Wiz Kids (RPGs, Cardgames, minigames like HeroClix)
• Harebrained Schemes (Shadowrun and Battletech video games)

The guy's been kicking ass in all aspects of the industry for 30+ years.

Quote from: S'mon;1041674Would you support having Milo as a guest of honour at Gencon? He is the anti SJW equivalent of Sarkeesian.

No. Absolutely and utterly not, unless Milo is a tabletop gamer and game designer on the side.

My problem with Anita as GoH has ZERO to do with her politics. If it was Social Media PoliticsCon, she's be a perfect GoH. GenCon is supposed to be about tabletop games and we have PLENTY of people inside the hobby worthy of that honor.

Larry Correia (who SJWs got tossed from Origins GoH spot) is an author and lifelong RPG gamer, and if he's an GoH, I don't want any politics out of him, just discussion about his books, games based on his books and getting his ass to game tables to game with fans. Absolutely ZERO political talk.

Quote from: jhkim;1041669The opposition's words are "poison" that will "infest" others if they're allowed to talk. The implied conclusion is that they have to be silenced to prevent this infestation.

Anita should be free now and forever to spew her stupid. I absolutely defend her right to babble forth dumb.

She didn't invite herself to GenCon. Utter fucknuts inside GenCon invited her ONLY because they want GenCon to become SJWCon.

They, not her, are the source of the bad decision, and as I stated above, the bad decision is based on Anita not being part of the tabletop industry.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1041672It let's me know who amongst the tabletop developers don't want my money.

How will you know?

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1041675Who the fuck is Milo?

He's a gay and Jewish "political provocateur" and married to a black dude, but his views are considered Alt-Right so he's literally Hitler.

But he loves being controversial and feeds on the outrage.

Quote from: jhkim;1041628Like Gronan, I don't particularly care who the guests of honor are. I couldn't tell you who the guests of honor were for previous Gen Con, or for pretty much any convention I've been to. I'm there to game.

The guests of honor last year were mostly a bunch of barely known feminists who had blogs about how awful D&D is, and Mike Pondsmith. The latter has impeccable RPG credentials, of course, but it was blatantly obvious that he was chosen to headline because he's black. If he were white and say, Kevin Siembieda were black, it would have been Kevin and not him there.

QuoteMy main issue with Sarkeesian is that as far as I know, all her commentary has been about video gaming, not tabletop gaming. So she seems like an odd choice.

They've clearly decided that they're powerful enough that they can entirely do away with the illusion of even bothering to invite someone like Pondsmith. They can just directly move into making their headline guest of honor a Totalitarian Leftist with no qualifications or connections to the RPG hobby whatsoever.

QuoteBut I don't make any sort of deal over conservative guests of honor at a con.

That's a bit of a ridiculous statement because it's very clear there will never be another conservative guest of honor at Gencon, for as long as these people are in power.

Quote from: jhkim;1041669This is the sort of language I associate with anti-free-speech arguments.  The opposition's words are "poison" that will "infest" others if they're allowed to talk. The implied conclusion is that they have to be silenced to prevent this infestation.

I disagree. And in particular, I don't think one can deploy this kind of argument - and simultaneously have a problem with opponents who do the same.

This is also disingenuous. I don't think Omega was suggesting she should be 'silenced', nor would she need to be silenced. Her feminist cancer can be countered with words. The problem is that those words ARE NOT ALLOWED at Gencon.

So your friends are stacking the deck, no-platforming anyone who disagrees with them, stifling all debate, and then you claim that if we criticize her brand of civilizational AIDS it means we're trying to censor her?

I absolutely do not want to censor her. I want to have a debate with her, on stage, in front of everyone, on a fair and even basis. I know I'd win because she's selling lies and I'm selling truth, and she's not even good enough at rhetoric to edge out someone half as good as me at debating. That's the whole reason she and all the other Identity Politics Totalitarians go for censorship: they're fundamentally incompetents and in an even playing field they'd be a laughing stock.

It's letting the camel's nose into the tent.

Sark the Shark coming into tabletop because she couldn't keep up her racket in videogames is one thing. Who's looking to benefit from making this happen is the real issue; folks we already talk about here are looking to use Sark to normalize SJW bullshit (and the centralization of authority required to make it stick) in tabletop. It seems quixotic, but the SJWs do know that folks who can freely participate can't be shamed into compliance or be frozen out at the gate. If there is a goal to be advanced here, it's to be found in whipping up hysteria sufficient to give justification for imposing and enforcing Codes of Conduct meant to freeze out Wrongthinkers and deny their influence. They think that if they control what is published, promoted, and talked about well enough they can do to tabletop RPGs what they did to science fiction generations before. (It seems quixotic, until you account for things like the EU's draft regulations on copyright currently being formulated.)

And as we've seen in how the perception of D&D--and thus of what RPGs are about--changed with entirely accidental shifts in demographics coupled with fumbling business leadership, to the detriment of the hobby, one can see how deliberately engineering a scene to bring about a desired change in a similar manner (drive off the existing customers; replace with ones you can easily influence) is not out of line to consider as being possible.

Sark the Shark being around is not a good sign. By itself, she's nothing; as part of a larger picture, she's the symptom of a larger problem being manifest.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1041680How will you know?

Because they'll tell us themselves.  Some out of agreement, others because they're afraid of the tornado of idiots she can brew up.

I've little use for either.

Quote from: S'mon;1041674Would you support having Milo as a guest of honour at Gencon? He is the anti SJW equivalent of Sarkeesian.

If I may answer for myself.....

No.

Why? Because both Sarkeesian and Milo know fuck-all about the tabletop RPG hobby or industry and GenCon was supposed to be about tabletop gaming.

People like Anita and the other SJW hipster scum who support censorship is precisely why you guys need to support me and the Cowboy movement as whole.

Make the Democratic Party Great Again! Kick out the SJW's and other supporters of censorship! That is what we Cowboys are all about.

Seriously, Anita Sarkeesian is like the Wyatt Earp of Internet Leftists. And I don't mean that in a good way.

Much like Earp, she's a thug, a grifter, and a brute with the blessing of mainstream media support, which means she can worm her way into other hobbies and bully people like the PC thug she is.

I'm like Johnny Ringo, and I am standing up to Anita by NOT going to GenCon.

Quote from: jeff37923;1041708If I may answer for myself.....

No.

Why? Because both Sarkeesian and Milo know fuck-all about the tabletop RPG hobby or industry and GenCon was supposed to be about tabletop gaming.

That is my view too. I want to see if Kim agrees.

Quote from: S'mon;1041710That is my view too. I want to see if Kim agrees.

I can't say, but I will say the most galling thing about that comparison is that while I like Milo better than Sarkeesian, Sarkeesian has more of a justification to be a GenCon GoH than Milo because she is at least very peripherally involved with tabletop RPGs.

We need to stand up to Anita Sarkeesian and abstain from attending GenCon.

Join the Cowboys and make your stand against the SJW tyranny of people like her. We'll be just like the exiled Texas outlaws and poor Southerners who formed the original Cowboys gang in Arizona during the late 1870's and early 1880's.

We're resisting a corrupt and tyrannical establishment by not attending GenCon and making our voices heard in doing so.

[video=youtube;OMko5LelBdA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMko5LelBdA[/youtube]

My wife was a guest of honor at GenCon many years ago. Because she was on a reality television game show - Stan Lee's Who Wants to Be a Superhero. She was there with the winner, who is a D&D player. And the winner from the prior year was also a D&D player (my current DM for one game in fact). I guess the themes of the reality TV show borrow from themes of RPGs in a number of ways. But really...not a whole lot related to RPGs or gaming.

And also, of course, almost nobody cared. Those into the show came by to say hi and maybe get an autograph. Those not into it or who had never heard of it (a majority) just ignored it or walked by with a curious glance.

I think there was also Peter Mayhew (Chewbacca), two women from wrestling fame, and David Faustino (Married with Children child actor). But I only know that from a web search - I have no recollection of who else was there other than my wife, her co-players on the game, and...

And then they ALSO had a RPG related guest - Dave Arneson. Who I talked to for a while. Nice guy, interesting stories, definitely belonged there more than any of the other guests.

I am pretty sure that's how this will work as well. Anita is the reality TV game show type guest this year. Or female wrestler. Whatever.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1041537If SJW's are the new Religious Right, then Anita Sarkeesian is the new Jack Chick.

The only difference is that Jack Chick was funny and entertaining, if in an ironic sort of way.

The more I think about this comparison, the more I like it;).
But I also fail to give any fucks about who the guests of honour are, so I'm not the target audience, it seems.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1041713We need to stand up to Anita Sarkeesian and abstain from attending GenCon.

Join the Cowboys and make your stand against the SJW tyranny of people like her. We'll be just like the exiled Texas outlaws and poor Southerners who formed the original Cowboys gang in Arizona during the late 1870's and early 1880's.

We're resisting a corrupt and tyrannical establishment by not attending GenCon and making our voices heard in doing so.

[video=youtube;OMko5LelBdA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMko5LelBdA[/youtube]

So, do we expect an alternative CowboyCon next:D?

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1041660Gotta have a horse to be a cowboy, kid.

Or, at least a cow.

I can't wait to find out how the heteronormative, post-colonial, patriarchal power structures are responsible for the misogyny in the RPG industry.

Quote from: Mistwell;1041716I am pretty sure that's how this will work as well. Anita is the reality TV game show type guest this year. Or female wrestler. Whatever.

The problem, Mistwell, isn't that a wrestler or Peter Mayhew or someone from Xena was on a panel.  They're "game show winners" level, I get that.  The problem is that none of them have made it their goal, their quest, to tear down a hobby.  Anita has.  She's bringing a shitload of toxicity with her.  That's the problem.  It isn't that she's a "nobody", quite the opposite.  It is that she is a "somebody".

And the "somebody" she is, is pretty awful.

As I said up-thread, whomever can bring their whatever to D&D.  I would never, ever step between someone who had a legitimate interest in D&D (or TTRPGs in general) and the table itself, in general.  But Anita Sarkeesian?  No.  Nuh-uh, no way.  I'd prefer she go back to shitting up the video games hobby.  No thank you, do not pass go, do not collect character sheet and dice.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;1041725I'd prefer she go back to shitting up the video games hobby.

As a video game player, I'd rather she plain went away.*

*Disclaimer that I believe in her right to speak about anything she likes, and GenCon has the right to invite anyone they like, and I have the right to say they're a lot of wankers.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1041728As a video game player, I'd rather she plain went away.*

*Disclaimer that I believe in her right to speak about anything she likes, and GenCon has the right to invite anyone they like, and I have the right to say they're a lot of wankers.

Sure, and I would too (I also enjoy VG); I guess what I mean is I wish she'd go away in general.  Didn't mean to make light of the other shit she's pulled.

To clarify:  I don't go to any game cons based on the politics of the producers. I don't consider RPGs to be an important channel for politics, and I'm not going to boycott a convention over mainstream political expression of the creators. I don't consider inviting a guest of honor to be silencing opposing points of view, nor do I think there is some need for guests of honor to be representative of anything in particular.

Given *my* choice, I wouldn't invite either Correia or Sarkeesian, but instead people who are important for tabletop games based on their credentials. But I'm also unlikely to boycott based on their guest of honor choices.

Quote from: Mistwell;1041716My wife was a guest of honor at GenCon many years ago. Because she was on a reality television game show - Stan Lee's Who Wants to Be a Superhero. She was there with the winner, who is a D&D player. And the winner from the prior year was also a D&D player (my current DM for one game in fact). I guess the themes of the reality TV show borrow from themes of RPGs in a number of ways. But really...not a whole lot related to RPGs or gaming.

And also, of course, almost nobody cared. Those into the show came by to say hi and maybe get an autograph. Those not into it or who had never heard of it (a majority) just ignored it or walked by with a curious glance.

I think there was also Peter Mayhew (Chewbacca), two women from wrestling fame, and David Faustino (Married with Children child actor). But I only know that from a web search - I have no recollection of who else was there other than my wife, her co-players on the game, and...

I'm sure, though, if only people had some way of knowing that there were these non-RPG-credentialed guests of honor at GenCon, they would have been outraged and complained just as much as they are over Sarkeesian. :rolleyes:

Quote from: Spinachcat;1041680No. Absolutely and utterly not, unless Milo is a tabletop gamer and game designer on the side.

My problem with Anita as GoH has ZERO to do with her politics. If it was Social Media PoliticsCon, she's be a perfect GoH. GenCon is supposed to be about tabletop games and we have PLENTY of people inside the hobby worthy of that honor.

Larry Correia (who SJWs got tossed from Origins GoH spot) is an author and lifelong RPG gamer, and if he's an GoH, I don't want any politics out of him, just discussion about his books, games based on his books and getting his ass to game tables to game with fans. Absolutely ZERO political talk.

As far as I know, Larry Correia also has done nothing for the tabletop games industry. It seems to me that he has roughly as much relevance as reality TV stars or wrestlers who happen to be game players.

Quote from: jhkim;1041733As far as I know, Larry Correia also has done nothing for the tabletop games industry. It seems to me that he has roughly as much relevance as reality TV stars or wrestlers who happen to be game players.

http://monsterhunternation.com/2017/10/19/new-monster-hunter-international-rpg-using-savage-worlds-rules/

He is an avid gamer and gaming proponent.

Quote from: Melichor;1041734http://monsterhunternation.com/2017/10/19/new-monster-hunter-international-rpg-using-savage-worlds-rules/

He is an avid gamer and gaming proponent.

The official link on that post is broken. Did anything happen with that?

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;1041684It's letting the camel's nose into the tent.

The camel is already inside the tent.  It has eaten the diaphanous silk bikinis of the sultan's harem (the sultan is pissed, by the way) and is making itself quite comfortable.

I barely understand the point of going to cons. I know my friends are really pumped about Gencon, but like I barely by anything there, so I'm paying a lot for a ticket and taking time off work to demo games and hang out with friends.

Or I could just hang out with friends on a weekend and treat everyone to a steak dinner for less money.

So yeah, knowing that Gencon has honored a known sexist racist harasser that hates a large chunk of my friend group because of qualities of birth is the opposite of good marketing to someone like me who only gets excitement to go from my friends.

Quote from: jhkim;1041669This is the sort of language I associate with anti-free-speech arguments.  The opposition's words are "poison" that will "infest" others if they're allowed to talk. The implied conclusion is that they have to be silenced to prevent this infestation.

I disagree. And in particular, I don't think one can deploy this kind of argument - and simultaneously have a problem with opponents who do the same.

This is exactly what you advocate on this very forum. You've argued exactly the "poisoning" and "infesting" of this site when some random poster says something you disagree with. Whether it was the "site's becoming a right-wing racist fest" threads or the more recent "representation" thread(s) you continuously use one poster's words to wack on others who don't line up with your views. You've made it pretty clear unless there is serious repudiation of some random poster's words, others must then agree with them.

Quote from: jhkim;1041733To clarify:  I don't go to any game cons based on the politics of the producers. I don't consider RPGs to be an important channel for politics, and I'm not going to boycott a convention over mainstream political expression of the creators. I don't consider inviting a guest of honor to be silencing opposing points of view, nor do I think there is some need for guests of honor to be representative of anything in particular.

So what one shows is not neccesarily being exclusionary? Oh, except
 

QuoteGiven *my* choice, I wouldn't invite either Correia or Sarkeesian, but instead people who are important for tabletop games based on their credentials. But I'm also unlikely to boycott based on their guest of honor choices.

I'm sure, though, if only people had some way of knowing that there were these non-RPG-credentialed guests of honor at GenCon, they would have been outraged and complained just as much as they are over Sarkeesian. :rolleyes:

As far as I know, Larry Correia also has done nothing for the tabletop games industry. It seems to me that he has roughly as much relevance as reality TV stars or wrestlers who happen to be game players.

Sure, sure you'd never post your opposition to a con that invite a dip-shit like R. Spencer. I am sure you'd go on your merry way as it would be irrelevant. :rolleyes:

Quote from: RPGPundit;1041683This is also disingenuous. I don't think Omega was suggesting she should be 'silenced', nor would she need to be silenced. Her feminist cancer can be countered with words. The problem is that those words ARE NOT ALLOWED at Gencon.

Of course he is. He just spent many post on representation in RPGs making the case that who is represented and who isn't (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?38902-Chris-Helton-ENWorld-and-Witch-Hunts-Buyer-Beware&p=1041656&viewfull=1#post1041656) (based on sexual orientation or identity) tells you if the game is inclusive or not. Odd that it applies, and is important, at the game table (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?38902-Chris-Helton-ENWorld-and-Witch-Hunts-Buyer-Beware&p=1041736&viewfull=1#post1041736) but not a game show/con.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2519[/ATTACH]

Quote from: jhkim;1041737The official link on that post is broken. Did anything happen with that?

   In the works, with Correia running a game of it at GenCon (which he's attending on his own).

  And it's the second Monster Hunters International RPG--the first was HERO System-based and is still available here (https://www.herogames.com/forums/store/category/8-monster-hunter-international/) and at other locations.

Anita Sarkeesian will be hosting a Q/A at GenCon. What could she possibly have done to warrant a Q/A in an industry she has *zero* to do with. And her last foray into gaming - videogames - shows from her mouth that she herself is not a gamer and has made a career of demonizing gamers. Her last Q/A she attacked members of the audience (her detractors - but they were just sitting there).

Sorry - this is ridiculous. More politics in gaming. I support Sarkeesian to shill her dumb ideas... to me this isn't really about her as much as it's about GenCon virtue signalling to non-gamers that this is what they want representing them. Good luck with that move... again, this road has been hoed by Marvel, Lucasfilm, and others with similar results.

Ideologues putting their ideas ahead of their craft tend not to work.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1041537If SJW's are the new Religious Right, then Anita Sarkeesian is the new Jack Chick.

The only difference is that Jack Chick was funny and entertaining, if in an ironic sort of way.

SJW's are called Democrats. See Leftist religions.

Quote from: jhkim;1041737The official link on that post is broken. Did anything happen with that?

The SW version of MHI is still in production.

I just wanted to point out that you are dismissing someone out of hand who is a gamer, is involved in new game development and runs games at conventions.
The fact that this person is also a successful author makes them a viable candidate for Guest of Honor invitations to gaming conventions.

Of course his politics don't match yours, just the 'Free Speech' thing.
Oh, and Whitney Strix Beltrán probably doesn't have a hate-on for you.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1041760SJW's are called Democrats. See Leftist religions.

Which is why I'm starting the Cowboy movement to take back the Democratic Party, make it the party of the working class again and not the party of the SJW coastal elites.

Quote from: tenbones;1041758Anita Sarkeesian will be hosting a Q/A at GenCon.

Thoughts on segment-based initiative in 1E? :D

Quote from: tenbones;1041758to me this isn't really about her as much as it's about GenCon virtue signalling to non-gamers that this is what they want representing them..

Or one or two people suggested it and nobody else cared.

GenCon is a 40,000 person con with a sizeable staff.  Never underestimate the power of "not my department."  I'd bet a nickel Peter Adkinson doesn't even know who she is.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1041768Which is why I'm starting the Cowboy movement to take back the Democratic Party, make it the party of the working class again and not the party of the SJW coastal elites.

And when your outreach extends past two or three online gaming forums, wake me up.

See also "slacktivism."

Quote from: Chainsaw;1041771Thoughts on segment-based initiative in 1E? :D

Followed by a Q&A on proposed NMRA standards for TTn3.

Quote from: AsenRG;1041719So, do we expect an alternative CowboyCon next:D?

Only if I can wear assless chaps!

Quote from: Rhedyn;1041740I barely understand the point of going to cons.

Local cons are worth supporting and can be tremendous fun. The big value of cons is playing new games with new people.

We've had threads in the past about cons and I've given breakdowns on the pros/cons and why I support going to them (especially small ones).

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1041760SJW's are called Democrats. See Leftist religions.

I disagree. SJWs are a small and extreme faction, but unfortunately loud and successful online which exaggerates their actual numbers.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1041745[ATTACH=CONFIG]2519[/ATTACH]

(https://ii.yuki.la/9/6c/a9098d1c63301512e658be3f833cb007c656bc7db4cd941cff0d8a383a7576c9.jpg)

Honestly, my problem with Sarkeesian has more to do with the fact that she is fairly sex-negative, such as being Anti-Slutwalk, or the fact that she is kind of anti-violence in media period (such as her opinion of Mad Max: Fury Road), and her general opinion that a woman who is strong in traditionally male ways is damaging is kind of just you know, fuck that.

I think critique of video games, and tabletop games as well from the perspective of its depiction of women and minorities is a good thing, I just think she is also pretty bad at it. She tends to use examples that don't actually support what she is saying if you know the context from which they are pulled for instance. Her work is very very amateur.

Quote from: Chainsaw;1041771Thoughts on segment-based initiative in 1E? :D

It is the best.  Next question?

Quote from: spinachcat;1041775only if i can wear assless chaps!

all chaps are assless!

Quote from: thedungeondelver;1041782all chaps are assless!

Oh, I say, we are?  Rum go!

Quote from: Emperor Norton;1041780Honestly, my problem with Sarkeesian has more to do with the fact that she is fairly sex-negative, such as being Anti-Slutwalk, or the fact that she is kind of anti-violence in media period (such as her opinion of Mad Max: Fury Road), and her general opinion that a woman who is strong in traditionally male ways is damaging is kind of just you know, fuck that.

I think critique of video games, and tabletop games as well from the perspective of its depiction of women and minorities is a good thing, I just think she is also pretty bad at it. She tends to use examples that don't actually support what she is saying if you know the context from which they are pulled for instance. Her work is very very amateur.

If that's all there was to Anita, I wouldn't give her a first thought, much less a second one.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1041760SJW's are called Democrats. See Leftist religions.

You have to excuse Doc Sammy. He's still crusading against the Religious Right as if they still have a grip on any power.

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1041794You have to excuse Doc Sammy. He's still crusading against the Religious Right as if they still have a grip on any power.

This time I'm going against Anita Sarkeesian, not the Religious Right.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1041804This time I'm going against Anita Sarkeesian, not the Religious Right.

Then why did you bring  them up?

Doc Sammy, please do research on the current state of the Religious Right and the Theocon movement. You will find it interesting. Also do some research on the political stances of young evangelicals and the issues existing in areas where the Religious Right previously held power and where they still exist. If you're gonna hate on a group, might as well know who you're hating and what your arch enemy is doing now.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1041829Doc Sammy, please do research on the current state of the Religious Right and the Theocon movement. You will find it interesting. Also do some research on the political stances of young evangelicals and the issues existing in areas where the Religious Right previously held power and where they still exist. If you're gonna hate on a group, might as well know who you're hating and what your arch enemy is doing now.

And while you are at it, please read up on the Cowboy Gang, what they did, and what events actually led to the Gunfight At The OK Corral. There is a lot more to it than the movie Tombstone would lead you believe.

Quote from: jeff37923;1041832And while you are at it, please read up on the Cowboy Gang, what they did, and what events actually led to the Gunfight At The OK Corral. There is a lot more to it than the movie Tombstone would lead you believe.

This is the same guy defending a group that kidnapped then murdered a family.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1041768Which is why I'm starting the Cowboy movement to take back the Democratic Party, make it the party of the working class again and not the party of the SJW coastal elites.

Yay! I'll start an Indian movement to take back the Republican Party and we'll meet in the middle -- over the corpses of our enemies! :D

We just need one more to play... Who is going to start the Bowel movement? :) (Gosh, LARPing is fun!)

What a clusterfuck. Milo is little better, but at least he'll engage his detractors. And we have good 'ol Nicole "slut shaming victims" Lindroos as a moderator.

[edit] Correction: Luke Crane is the moderator for Anita's panel. Nichole Lindroos is moderating one of the others. That'll show me not to just go by Gencon's #Twitter posts.

I'm done. The industry is entirely corrupt at this point, with no real interest in protecting women and minorities beyond how much power doing so gives them. It's not even worth flipping the table anymore.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1041683This is also disingenuous. I don't think Omega was suggesting she should be 'silenced', nor would she need to be silenced. Her feminist cancer can be countered with words. The problem is that those words ARE NOT ALLOWED at Gencon.

So your friends are stacking the deck, no-platforming anyone who disagrees with them, stifling all debate, and then you claim that if we criticize her brand of civilizational AIDS it means we're trying to censor her?

I absolutely do not want to censor her. I want to have a debate with her, on stage, in front of everyone, on a fair and even basis. I know I'd win because she's selling lies and I'm selling truth, and she's not even good enough at rhetoric to edge out someone half as good as me at debating. That's the whole reason she and all the other Identity Politics Totalitarians go for censorship: they're fundamentally incompetents and in an even playing field they'd be a laughing stock.

Yep.

Quote from: tenbones;1041758Her last Q/A she attacked members of the audience (her detractors - but they were just sitting there).

And then verbally attacked a co-panelist after another panel when no one was watching.

Quote from: Chainsaw;1041771Thoughts on segment-based initiative in 1E? :D

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if this question would get you banned and escorted off the premises for trolling.

Quote from: Tait Ransom;1041648That's not fair.  I'd give her at least a 6 or 7.

The 3 was generous. Probably because it had masturbate in it.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;10416363/10

9/10.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1041745[ATTACH=CONFIG]2519[/ATTACH]

Truth.

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1041834This is the same guy defending a group that kidnapped then murdered a family.

Actually, I condemned the one guy who actually did the kidnapping and murder, and defended the five unfortunate witnesses who got railroaded by a corrupt and degenerate right-wing court system.

One guilty person, five innocent people who were given a cruel and unusual punishment for a crime that only one person committed.

I oppose Life Without Parole. It is a cruel and an unjust punishment only supported by right-wing Neo-Puritan lunatics such as yourself.

BUT we are getting off-topic and let's just get back to how much Anita Sarkeesian sucks and why she should not be allowed at a place like GenCon.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1041843Who is going to start the Bowel movement?

My Brooklyn Italian grandma was obsessed with "BMs" - somewhere in her youth, bowel movements became her key barometer of everyone's health (which is funny because
gut/intestinal health is vital and poop is hilarious).

Grandma's dead almost 20 years and my mom and I still greet each other with "how's your BM?" in her mother's honor.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1041852Actually, I condemned the one guy who actually did the kidnapping and murder, and defended the five unfortunate witnesses who got railroaded by a corrupt and degenerate right-wing court system.

Yet another topic you need to do research upon. The court's factual findings regarding the actions and inactions of the 5 others are disturbing, but "life without parole" is hefty, especially considering how our justice system has extremely variable sentencing for serious crimes.

What is becoming increasingly apparent to me is that sexuality and the politics of sexuality is of far greater interest to certain people than playing tabletop RPGs.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1041869What is becoming increasingly apparent to me is that sexuality and the politics of sexuality is of far greater interest to certain people than playing tabletop RPGs.

Ding!  Winner!

Whining about other peoples' politics is also of far greater interest to certain people than playing or even talking about RPGs.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1041908Ding!  Winner!

Whining about other peoples' politics is also of far greater interest to certain people than playing or even talking about RPGs.

Then why do you do it so much?

Quote from: Ras Algethi;1041912Then why do you do it so much?

I've answered that question before.  Do try to keep up.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1041924I've answered that question before.  Do try to keep up.

Forgive Ras Algethi, he's dumber than a bag of hammers.

Me and him should just fuck and get it over with.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1041929Forgive Ras Algethi, he's dumber than a bag of hammers.

That's no way to talk about hammers.

Quote from: jhkim;1041733As far as I know, Larry Correia also has done nothing for the tabletop games industry. It seems to me that he has roughly as much relevance as reality TV stars or wrestlers who happen to be game players.

He is a big gamer and minis collector / painter who has engaged with a lot of his fanbase over games.

Supposedly, the Savage Worlds Monster Hunter setting based on his novels was supposed to be making some sort of big splash/announcement at the show, and he was going to be involved somehow

Quote from: bayonetbrant;1043335He is a big gamer and minis collector / painter who has engaged with a lot of his fanbase over games.

Supposedly, the Savage Worlds Monster Hunter setting based on his novels was supposed to be making some sort of big splash/announcement at the show, and he was going to be involved somehow

Hm.  I backed the Monster Hunter game because it sounded like fun - I've read a few of the novels that I found used - but I've also got a copy of the Monster Hunter Hero games version, which I picked up cheap off of a 'failed rpg' table at a convention, so I wonder how many rpg fans he actually has.  (Well, at least 2,058, going by the kickstarter. :)  On the one hand, that sounds low, on the other hand, small press rpgs only sell in the thousands to start with, I expect.  It's half the number who backed the Rifts version of Savage Worlds, and twice the number who backed The Last Parsec and The 6th Gun.  (Wow, that really brings that into sharp relief.  I went in thinking 2000 was pretty low, but looking over Pinnacle's other Savage Worlds kickstarters, it's a very healthy number of backers.)

Anyway, Larry's a good choice for a guest for a game convention.  He plays games.  He blogs about games.  And he's written works that are very gamable - shown by his Monster Hunter books having two games based on them.  He hasn't written any games himself, but he may not be that masochistic. :)

Quote from: jcfiala;1043341Anyway, Larry's a good choice for a guest for a game convention.  He plays games.  He blogs about games.  And he's written works that are very gamable - shown by his Monster Hunter books having two games based on them.  He hasn't written any games himself, but he may not be that masochistic. :)

   I keep an eye on Correia's blog, and apparently he's got a design for a 'cop drama' game in the works that he may be Kickstarting next year.

Quote from: jcfiala;1043341He hasn't written any games himself, but he may not be that masochistic. :)

"How do you have a game and a million dollars?"
"Start with two million dollars."

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043380"How do you have a game and a million dollars?"
"Start with two million dollars."

Indeed.  I was listening to an interview with C.J. Carella, who started out writing RPG books but these days writes novels.  Although he's interested in someone making a game based off of his settings, he's not willing to do it himself because it's too big of a pay cut.

There is no money in gaming.  Other than WoTC and maybe Pazio, the rest of the "industry" survives on scraps.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043389There is no money in gaming.  Other than WoTC and maybe Pazio, the rest of the "industry" survives on scraps.

Alot of designers utterly and totally do not understand this or the actual costs of publishing.

A certain Kevin Crawford could probably correct your ideas on the whole "no money in RPG" subject matter.

Granted, he's an exception on almost every level.

Somebody making a living, or even a living for three or four people, is still scraps compared to WotC.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043414Somebody making a living, or even a living for three or four people, is still scraps compared to WotC.

Wonder how Monte Cook is doing.

Quote from: Luca;1043413A certain Kevin Crawford could probably correct your ideas on the whole "no money in RPG" subject matter.

Granted, he's an exception on almost every level.

Yeah.  Mr. Crawford is talented, hard-working, and very careful.  Where other people have managed to succeed their way to failure with Kickstarter, he's very careful about making sure that he's getting paid for all that work.  But on the other hand, by using Kickstarter carefully, he's also careful to make sure he doesn't sink too much work into something that doesn't sell.

Quote from: jhkim;1041669This is the sort of language I associate with anti-free-speech arguments.  The opposition's words are "poison" that will "infest" others if they're allowed to talk. The implied conclusion is that they have to be silenced to prevent this infestation.

I disagree. And in particular, I don't think one can deploy this kind of argument - and simultaneously have a problem with opponents who do the same.

Well, as you said, it would have been good if we could get some conservative gamers speaking there as well. The way it is (seeing how people talk about previous years as well) it does seem very one-sided, and yes that DOES affect people in a bad way.

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1041869What is becoming increasingly apparent to me is that sexuality and the politics of sexuality is of far greater interest to certain people than playing tabletop RPGs.

My prediction is in five years the hobby will split into two groups. One group will prefer to tell stories about social justice. The act of roleplaying a character will be secondary to that goal; a good session will be one where the -Ists are shamed and the group applauds itself on displaying Correct virtue.  They will proclaim they have "evolved" the hobby from mere entertainment to an educational experience. But when this fails to have any real transformative power, they will retreat to their safe spaces and bemoan the Not Ok state of the world.

The second group will be called Old School, not because they necessarily have anything to do with the OSR (although they might) but rather because they represent old modes of thinking, both in terms of the games they play and their politics. And at this point, their politics will be a mix of the Left-behind Left and the Right. This group participates in the hobby for entertainment alone-- to imagine they are a character in a fictional world. They have no illusion that their hobby has anything to do with the real world, outside of making friends and having fun.

Five years after that, the first group will vanish, simply because misery requires too energy, and they aren't having fun. They will leave the hobby much like the goths of the 90's, who entered like gangbusters and exited just as abruptly. The difference is that the goths had fun with it, and were smart enough to use it to get laid.

My prediction is that in five years, people on boards will still be yelling at each other about the right way to discuss roleplaying games, while the people who are not on discussion boards will just play the damn game and continue to happily ignore everyone on the discussion boards.

Quote from: jhkimThis is the sort of language I associate with anti-free-speech arguments. The opposition's words are "poison" that will "infest" others if they're allowed to talk. The implied conclusion is that they have to be silenced to prevent this infestation.

I disagree. And in particular, I don't think one can deploy this kind of argument - and simultaneously have a problem with opponents who do the same.

Quote from: Trond;1043445Well, as you said, it would have been good if we could get some conservative gamers speaking there as well. The way it is (seeing how people talk about previous years as well) it does seem very one-sided, and yes that DOES affect people in a bad way.

It feels to me anal-retentive to call for every convention to have an even balance of political views in their guests, or worse, that the guests have to match one's own politics. It's game convention, not a political debate.

There are people on different places in the political spectrum who do care a lot about the politics of guests of honor - and will raise a stink for having the wrong guest, because they feel it affects them in a bad way.

You are all entitled to your opinion, but I would encourage people to be more open-minded and willing to go to a convention even if it doesn't match their own politics. People can attend a convention and have fun gaming together, despite political differences.

How about an even more radical idea?

Invites guests to only talk about gaming! If the guest has non-gaming interests, they can STFU about their non-gaming stuff for the weekend and just focus on gaming.

Kinda like how adults attend professional conventions for their jobs and only focus on their job aspect of the professional convention.

Quote from: jhkim;1043465It feels to me anal-retentive to call for every convention to have an even balance of political views in their guests, or worse, that the guests have to match one's own politics. It's game convention, not a political debate.

Well, it's clearly not a political debate in any sense right now, because there are ZERO conventions where right-wing panelists are invited to attend. There's an awful lot that are full of feminist bloggers who despise gaming telling us how toxic we are, while people who fail the Social-justice test are forcibly ejected from the convention floor.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1043493Well, it's clearly not a political debate in any sense right now, because there are ZERO conventions where right-wing panelists are invited to attend. There's an awful lot that are full of feminist bloggers who despise gaming telling us how toxic we are, while people who fail the Social-justice test are forcibly ejected from the convention floor.

Then make right-wing conventions. I know I would attend. I can't wait for the panel discussion on "Orthodox Aestheticism and the Polyhedral Die".

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;1043496Then make right-wing conventions.

You know they didn't make left wing conventions. They just took over existing ones.

I do wish some convention organisers would stand up to the SJW mob. What they did to NTRPGcon was shameful - harassment in the name of anti-harassment. But I understand why people think it's not worth fighting.

Quote from: S'mon;1043502You know they didn't make left wing conventions. They just took over existing ones.

I do wish some convention organisers would stand up to the SJW mob. What they did to NTRPGcon was shameful - harassment in the name of anti-harassment. But I understand why people think it's not worth fighting.

ConCarolinas reversed course and went anti-SJW. DragonCon just punted a SJW from its lit track. It's happening.

Quote from: jcfiala;1043385Indeed.  I was listening to an interview with C.J. Carella, who started out writing RPG books but these days writes novels.  Although he's interested in someone making a game based off of his settings, he's not willing to do it himself because it's too big of a pay cut.

There's a reason Matt Forbeck spends more of his time writing novels for the HALO and Star Wars universes, and not writing games for his Shotguns & Sorcery universe.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043389There is no money in gaming.  Other than WoTC and maybe Pazio, the rest of the "industry" survives on scraps.

Compared to what?  There's a decent number of folks working for RPG companies as a sole income.
It doesn't take 3 hands to count the total number of people working the wargame publishing world as a full-time primary income, and most of them come from just 2 companies.

You won't get rich, sure. But make good products and you can live off of it.

Not from PWYW d100 Random Tavern Name Generators on drivethru, tho.

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;1043503ConCarolinas reversed course and went anti-SJW. DragonCon just punted a SJW from its lit track. It's happening.

They're also not primarily a gaming con, either.
The main gaming cons in NC are MACE and Playthrough

Quote from: bayonetbrant;1043506Compared to what?  There's a decent number of folks working for RPG companies as a sole income.
It doesn't take 3 hands to count the total number of people working the wargame publishing world as a full-time primary income, and most of them come from just 2 companies.

I think the general point Gronan is working on is that there is no fortune to be made in TTRPG products. He was responding to jcfiala's point of "He hasn't written any games himself, but he may not be that masochistic." Being an RPG writer does seem to be a relatively thankless job (or 'low-thank job' maybe). The pay is suboptimal, you have to spend a bunch of time and travel (or now online work) promoting your product and personal brand, and you subject yourself to the critiques of a loud and unpleasable fan base. If Larry Correia hasn't written any games himself, it's perhaps because it isn't worth his billable rate.

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;1043507You won't get rich, sure. But make good products and you can live off of it.
Not from PWYW d100 Random Tavern Name Generators on drivethru, tho.

Sure. You can also live off, and maybe even employ a few people who also live off, a straight up FLGS (so not even writing or publishing a gaming product, just selling it). I don't think anyone is suggesting that there everyone involved in the TT RPG product pipeline are all working on spec or doing it as a part time second career or the like.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1043493Well, it's clearly not a political debate in any sense right now, because there are ZERO conventions where right-wing panelists are invited to attend. There's an awful lot that are full of feminist bloggers who despise gaming telling us how toxic we are, while people who fail the Social-justice test are forcibly ejected from the convention floor.

If regular convention attendees are being ejected for no good reason, then talk about that. That sounds bad to me if it is really happening.

Instead, the tragedies that I'm hearing about is that some people are being denied their God-given right to be guest of honor, or people are being horrendously forced to have a politically-related talk somewhere in the same hotel that they are gaming at.

Quote from: Willie the Duck;1043523Being an RPG writer does seem to be a relatively thankless job (or 'low-thank job' maybe). The pay is suboptimal, you have to spend a bunch of time and travel (or now online work) promoting your product and personal brand, and you subject yourself to the critiques of a loud and unpleasable fan base.

believe me, I know :)
https://rpggeek.com/rpgdesigner/5756/brant-guillory

Quote from: jhkim;1043465It feels to me anal-retentive to call for every convention to have an even balance of political views in their guests, or worse, that the guests have to match one's own politics. It's game convention, not a political debate.

There are people on different places in the political spectrum who do care a lot about the politics of guests of honor - and will raise a stink for having the wrong guest, because they feel it affects them in a bad way.

You are all entitled to your opinion, but I would encourage people to be more open-minded and willing to go to a convention even if it doesn't match their own politics. People can attend a convention and have fun gaming together, despite political differences.

Nope, I'd much rather that the people arranging a large con try to make the place more neutral overall, because it has been getting extremely one-sided. It really isn't difficult either; they're inviting interesting people as special guests anyway. If they include Sarkeesian, why not invite e.g. Desborough? (and throw out anyone who tries to turn on the fire alarm or any shit like that) I do remember, years ago, some wacky far-right people coming for debates at conventions, talking about the dangers of magic and such. It was ridiculous, but now I almost miss them. The early calls for feminism and warnings about cultural sensitivity have turned into an endless drone, and it is starting to drive me insane. And I am not even a Republican. People pay to go to conventions that they like, and if they don't like it, they're not going to go.

Quote from: S'mon;1043502You know they didn't make left wing conventions. They just took over existing ones.

I do wish some convention organisers would stand up to the SJW mob. What they did to NTRPGcon was shameful - harassment in the name of anti-harassment. But I understand why people think it's not worth fighting.

I was there at the 2017 Comic-Con, and it was pretty bad. Some people were roaming through the hallways calling out to folks asking them to look out for microaggressions against blacks etc, making the whole floor uncomfortable. There was some nervous clapping, but in general nobody spoke out for fear of being called a nazi sympathizer. Another incident (that I didn't see), was some woman who was targeted for "black face" or "cultural appropriation" because she was dressed like Whoopi Goldberg's star trek character.

Quote from: jhkim;1043465It feels to me anal-retentive to call for every convention to have an even balance of political views in their guests, or worse, that the guests have to match one's own politics. It's game convention, not a political debate.

I think that's what we've all been essentially saying for many many many threads. But people want to throw invectives at one another for their perceived stance on a political position.

Quote from: jhkim;1043465There are people on different places in the political spectrum who do care a lot about the politics of guests of honor - and will raise a stink for having the wrong guest, because they feel it affects them in a bad way.

But there *is* a distinction between having a guest of honor with a politcal view or stripe, and one that has a political axe to grind for their own self-serving interests. Sarkeesian is the latter Correia is the former. It doesn't help that the people running the convention also have a political axe to grind, and it seems they wish to do it on the heads of the fans. Surely you see this in other media? I refuse to believe you're not blind to it. To the degree that you are open to having those political agendas pounded down your throat is, of course, up to you.

Quote from: jhkim;1043465You are all entitled to your opinion, but I would encourage people to be more open-minded and willing to go to a convention even if it doesn't match their own politics. People can attend a convention and have fun gaming together, despite political differences.

I disagree. Encouraging someone to go to a place, today, where their politics are not matching with the Convention-runners is not the issue *at all*. When you're *not allowed* to voice your disagreement, or simply not show support for the politics in question without fear of potential retribution - seems to be the real issue. And it seems to come from the same side of the political divide. And why in the world would I support that? Especially given that we both agree it shouldn't even be ABOUT politics in gaming?

It's a secular religious movement now. I'd no sooner go to a Scientology Gaming Convention and support them than I would a bunch of neo-leftist nobs that are insistent that if you don't support *their* unreasoned opinions about reality you're a mysoginst, Nazi, bigot, homophobe.

Nah, I'll give my money to other people that are sane and make good things I like. I'm happy to watch Marvel, Star Wars, WotC, EA, and all the other converged companies putting their ideology before their products burn down to the ground. While they try to cut the throats of their primary fanbase,unnecessarily, so they can virtue-signal to the self-loathing ultra-minority that they believe is going to earn them some special place in SJW-Heaven, and we should support that? I'll be there with others to pick up the pieces. And all this newly fertile land will be ours!

Meanwhile I'm stockpiling on marshmallows and sticks (and maybe a little lighter fluid).

Quote from: Mike the Mage;1041869What is becoming increasingly apparent to me is that sexuality and the politics of sexuality is of far greater interest to certain people than playing tabletop RPGs.

Indeed.

Quote from: jhkim;1043524If regular convention attendees are being ejected for no good reason, then talk about that. That sounds bad to me if it is really happening.

What do you mean by good reason? For example, the Honey Badgers were thrown out of Calgary Expo for engaging with a panel, and while they took that opportunity to monologue rather than ask questions, I still don't think it justifies removing them from the event.

And the reason Larry Correia was dropped as a guest is because someone claimed he made (specifically 'brown' people) feel unsafe. Not because of his politics. Not because of his pro-gun stance. Not even because of his Sad Puppies involvement. Because he was _dangerous_.

Which of course is the biggest load of horseshit imaginable.

And then they bring on Anita Sarkeesian, someone with an actual political agenda, who bullied attendees and fellow panelists at VidCon, and all but tells people they're bad for liking certain games.

So sorry, this is transparently political, and how the end of rpg.net began.

Quote from: Trond;1043539Another incident (that I didn't see), was some woman who was targeted for "black face" or "cultural appropriation" because she was dressed like Whoopi Goldberg's star trek character.

And the black woman calling it out is wearing a referee uniform.

Seriously, I can't make this shit up (https://youtu.be/q9nIcp9zaqc).

I don't care what "wing" gets represented at which con. I just feel bad for the Gen Con goes who have to deal with the convention sliding into the rpg.net "Inclusive, but not for you, Nazi" mindset. Anita is the harbinger of that. We've had years of her trying to push her social/political agenda onto video games. Now table top has to deal with her foul stench.

Quote from: Trond;1043539I was there at the 2017 Comic-Con, and it was pretty bad. Some people were roaming through the hallways calling out to folks asking them to look out for microaggressions against blacks etc, making the whole floor uncomfortable. There was some nervous clapping, but in general nobody spoke out for fear of being called a nazi sympathizer. Another incident (that I didn't see), was some woman who was targeted for "black face" or "cultural appropriation" because she was dressed like Whoopi Goldberg's star trek character.

This is the kind of SocJus harassment makes me worried about taking my son to conventions. I don't want him to see people being treated like that. I especially don't want to pay for the privilege.

Dragonmeet was fine again last year despite their anti-harassment policy, but the SJWs get more extreme every year, and I don't want to be there when it turns into what you describe above. I have a weaboo friend who likes to cosplay in Japanese costume, I don't want to see her being harassed by socjus scum.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1043549I don't care what "wing" gets represented at which con. I just feel bad for the Gen Con goes who have to deal with the convention sliding into the rpg.net "Inclusive, but not for you, Nazi" mindset. Anita is the harbinger of that. We've had years of her trying to push her social/political agenda onto video games. Now table top has to deal with her foul stench.

Have you BEEN to GenCon lately?  Like other conventions, it's multiple conventions in one, and it's so freaking huge you would have to work really hard to even FIND the guest of honor seminars.

I went last year, and nobody asked me about my views on race, sexuality, gender fluidity, or any of that other shit, even once.

I DID get asked about gaming a lot, though.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043563Have you BEEN to GenCon lately?  Like other conventions, it's multiple conventions in one, and it's so freaking huge you would have to work really hard to even FIND the guest of honor seminars.

Nope. I don't live in the area, so it's not easy to get to.

QuoteI went last year, and nobody asked me about my views on race, sexuality, gender fluidity, or any of that other shit, even once.

I DID get asked about gaming a lot, though.

I'm curious how this year plays out.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1043571Nope. I don't live in the area, so it's not easy to get to.

It's ridiculously expensive, too.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1043571I'm curious how this year plays out.

I honestly believe most people will be totally unaffected by it.  It is not only huge population wise, it's huge in acreage; it covers multiple city blocks.

There's just too much "THERE" there.

Some people might be hurt by the politics, yes, and that's too bad.  But it will happen in small ways (which does not make it acceptable).

Quote from: jhkim;1043524Instead, the tragedies that I'm hearing about is that some people are being denied their God-given right to be guest of honor, or people are being horrendously forced to have a politically-related talk somewhere in the same hotel that they are gaming at.

How do you think GenCon would react to a Gamers for Free Speech rally on opening day?

Politics divides, gaming unites. Why shouldn't game cons be about uniting people instead of inciting further divisions?

Quote from: tenbones;1043543It's a secular religious movement now.

It's the 80s church ladies again, but much fatter and with shit in their face, but without the ability to bake.

At least the Satanic Panic made RPGs cool. SJWs make everything suck.

Quote from: tenbones;1043543Meanwhile I'm stockpiling on marshmallows and sticks (and maybe a little lighter fluid).

I'll bring the long pork forks and the charcoal!

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043563Have you BEEN to GenCon lately?  Like other conventions, it's multiple conventions in one, and it's so freaking huge you would have to work really hard to even FIND the guest of honor seminars.

You're right about that.

GenCon is huge and most attendees won't interact with the SJW brigade. Most attendees don't even read through the convention book and just use it to plot their events, but even that's minimal as most people just find their zone and stick with it for the weekend. AKA, RPGers in the RPG section, Organized Play in their zone, Wargamers at the minis rooms, etc. The only major crossover areas are the Dealer's Room and the Food Court.

But that's still no excuse for bringing ANY form of politics into GenCon. "Most people aren't going to drink the OJ so it's cool if we shit in it" is NOT a good plan.

I agree politics have no place there, but my point (and I do have one) is that it will NOT be the end of GenCon, gaming, and the entire universe.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043583I agree politics have no place there, but my point (and I do have one) is that it will NOT be the end of GenCon, gaming, and the entire universe.

Of course not. But I suspect it will get more obnoxiously political and activist oriented as time goes by.

Could be, could not... I'm not sure I'm going to worry about it, since I'll never go to GenCon again, unless I'm paid to again.

"Always in motion is the future."

Quote from: jhkimIf regular convention attendees are being ejected for no good reason, then talk about that. That sounds bad to me if it is really happening.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1043546What do you mean by good reason? For example, the Honey Badgers were thrown out of Calgary Expo for engaging with a panel, and while they took that opportunity to monologue rather than ask questions, I still don't think it justifies removing them from the event.

Calgary Expo doesn't have any role-playing, does it?  Moreover, that isn't regular attendees just doing gaming or whatever. From what you say, it's a group intentionally disrupting a panel to monologue.

What I care about is whether regular attendees who just want to go to the convention and have fun gaming can go and game and be themselves. There may be examples of people like this having genuine problems from the convention, but the above isn't an example of that, nor is whoever the guests of honor are.

My preference isn't to force everyone to be non-political, it's for people to be OK with having people of different politics at the same event.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1043546And the reason Larry Correia was dropped as a guest is because someone claimed he made (specifically 'brown' people) feel unsafe. Not because of his politics. Not because of his pro-gun stance. Not even because of his Sad Puppies involvement. Because he was _dangerous_.

Which of course is the biggest load of horseshit imaginable.

And then they bring on Anita Sarkeesian, someone with an actual political agenda, who bullied attendees and fellow panelists at VidCon, and all but tells people they're bad for liking certain games.

So sorry, this is transparently political, and how the end of rpg.net began.

I agree that there is politics going on - there always is. The question is, does that politics matter to an ordinary convention-goer who doesn't give a damn who the guests of honor are?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1043579How do you think GenCon would react to a Gamers for Free Speech rally on opening day?

Politics divides, gaming unites. Why shouldn't game cons be about uniting people instead of inciting further divisions?

By saying "gaming unites", you're clearly blinding yourself to edition wars, storygaming-vs-traditional, and a ton of other divisions.  :D

It's been years since I've been the Gen Con, and I'm not going to speak for them.

Speaking for myself - If the rally is trying to be disruptive to people who just want to go and game - to shout and chant at people, then I'm against it. If they're just going to meet in some convention room or event, then I'm for that.

Quote from: jhkim;1043598By saying "gaming unites", you're clearly blinding yourself to edition wars, storygaming-vs-traditional, and a ton of other divisions.  :D

That's online bullshit. At cons, I rarely see any of the nonsense that gets wanked about online.

I'm often one of the few non-Organized Play GMs at our FLGS game days. 80% of attendees are only there for AL or PFS, but the couple tables of other games never get hassled. At most, I get inquisitive younger players wondering about OD&D and asking why would anyone still play it.

And then 2 hours later, they're OSR acolytes praying to Gygax for their own demonic powers.

Quote from: jhkim;1043598Speaking for myself - If the rally is trying to be disruptive to people who just want to go and game - to shout and chant at people, then I'm against it. If they're just going to meet in some convention room or event, then I'm for that.

I fully agree with you, but GenCon would never allow that. A non-partisan free speech rally, let alone a MAGA rally, would cause them to shit kittens.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1043608That's online bullshit. At cons, I rarely see any of the nonsense that gets wanked about online.

Even online, I don't see RPG politics on the Facebook RPG Designers group. About half the designers appear to be storygamers and half traditional RPGs. Both groups try to help each other without saying "you're doing it wrong".

The only politics I've seen there is one of the mods virtue signalling about Larry's dis-invite. And most people just ignored it.

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;1043496Then make right-wing conventions. I know I would attend. I can't wait for the panel discussion on "Orthodox Aestheticism and the Polyhedral Die".

And a couple of bomb threats later no one will rent a venue.

Don't doubt for a second that it wouldn't happen.

Quote from: jhkim;1043595I agree that there is politics going on - there always is. The question is, does that politics matter to an ordinary convention-goer who doesn't give a damn who the guests of honor are?

Since this is a topic of discussion here, I'd say yes.

Here's the thing. If GenCon is moving away from being "The Best Four Days In Gaming" and towards promoting a political agenda, why should gamers spend their money in support of GenCon if they do not agree with their political agenda?

Everybody knows GaryCon is the best four days in gaming.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1043611And a couple of bomb threats later no one will rent a venue.

Don't doubt for a second that it wouldn't happen.

I strongly believe any old school convention is right wing. But that's a discussion for another day...

If you polled the adults at GaryCon, most of them are probably right of center.

However, nobody does because nobody cares.  We're there to game.

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;1043634I strongly believe any old school convention is right wing.

Why?

Quote from: jeff37923;1043619why should gamers spend their money in support of GenCon if they do not agree with their political agenda?

To get the "GenCon experience" - which is important to some gamers.

However, if the "GenCon experience" isn't important to any gamer of any political stripe, then attending a regional or local small convention will be cheaper and probably more fun and you're supporting the gamers in your own area.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1043686Why?

Because I believe gaming choices reflect political or at least philosophical alignments. On a spectrum, of course.

Well at least here I don't believe the people missing the point are operating in bad faith.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1043583I agree politics have no place there, but my point (and I do have one) is that it will NOT be the end of GenCon, gaming, and the entire universe.

It was the end of rpg.net, and your time there. And if you don't think this is trickling down to realspace you're out of your mind. The exact same signs are present.

Quote from: jhkim;1043595Calgary Expo doesn't have any role-playing, does it?

What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

Quote from: jhkim;1043595Moreover, that isn't regular attendees just doing gaming or whatever. From what you say, it's a group intentionally disrupting a panel to monologue.

Let's say they were. Then being removed from the panel, or shut down by the moderator, would be the answer.

And let's not forget Anita considered Sargon to be harassing her by simply sitting in the audience, when she was the one who pointed him out to call him a 'garbage human'.

These people have unilateral power to determine whether someone is being disruptive, engaging in harassment, or not a good fit for a forum, without having to justify or define anything. It's simply true because of who they are. And at this point you're endorsing that state of affairs.

Quote from: jhkim;1043595What I care about is whether regular attendees who just want to go to the convention and have fun gaming can go and game and be themselves.

But the argument is that they can't go and be themselves if certain other people are present.

Quote from: jhkim;1043595does that politics matter to an ordinary convention-goer who doesn't give a damn who the guests of honor are?

It does when the people running the event start demanding that it does.

Which is already happening online. Make a post about wanting to keep real world politics out of gaming and watch as the swarm tells you how 'privileged' you are to not have to worry about all of their problems. How just having fun is itself a political statement and reinforces the status quo. And how you're a bad person for dismissing their concerns by wanting to treat a game as just a game. There are even people who consider buying Adventurer Conqueror King to be tantamount to genocide, and they tend to be the ones most eager to take control of social networks and events.

So if they get control they won't allow you to not care about the politics.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1043698There are even people who consider buying Adventurer Conqueror King to be tantamount to genocide, and they tend to be the ones most eager to take control of social networks and events.

Usually I avoid bollocks like this by staying out of pundits forum but since it's seeped here and replaced talking about games...

However my morbid curiosity is enticed, what does ACKs have to do with genocide?

Quote from: HorusArisen;1043708Usually I avoid bollocks like this by staying out of pundits forum but since it's seeped here and replaced talking about games...

However my morbid curiosity is enticed, what does ACKs have to do with genocide?

• ACKS is written by Alexander Macris.
• Macris founded the Escapist and then sold it, and it became Defy Media.  He stayed onboard.
• He didn't buy the anti-gamergate smokescreen and was critical of Quinn and other gaming sites involved in the Quinnspiracy. - STRIKE ONE
• For Defy media, he ran Break.com, a series of sites that were more Red than Blue in outlook and audience. - STRIKE TWO
• Based on that (and the fact that he's highly intelligent, educated and knows how to run internet businesses), he was offered and accepted the CEO position of Milo Inc, headed by Milo Yiannopolis. - STRIKE THREE
• After Milo's empire imploded once his biggest backer died, Macris lost some of his titles, but still is involved with Milo's other businesses to some degree I think?

So yeah, to a SJW, Alex is basically Hitler. :rolleyes:

Quote from: CRKrueger;1043710

• ACKS is written by Alexander Macris.
• Macris founded the Escapist and then sold it, and it became Defy Media.  He stayed onboard.
• He didn't buy the anti-gamergate smokescreen and was critical of Quinn and other gaming sites involved in the Quinnspiracy. - STRIKE ONE
• For Defy media, he ran Break.com, a series of sites that were more Red than Blue in outlook and audience. - STRIKE TWO
• Based on that (and the fact that he's highly intelligent, educated and knows how to run internet businesses), he was offered and accepted the CEO position of Milo Inc, headed by Milo Yiannopolis. - STRIKE THREE
• After Milo's empire imploded once his biggest backer died, Macris lost some of his titles, but still is involved with Milo's other businesses to some degree I think?

So yeah, to a SJW, Alex is basically Hitler. :rolleyes:

...not a single thing you wrote makes sense except to remind me why I avoid mixing real life and gaming. However thanks for explaining as best you can to this apolitical slob.

This is like all those nonces on the TBP wringing their hands because that guy who wrote something for Battletech has been accused of something and owning it makes them tainted by association. Of the other guy from who wrote some savage worlds stuff SPF. Or the Last Citadel guy...is their anyone in the RPG world not sexually harassing, molesting or looking at someone in the wrong way?

I now exit this thread grateful to CRKrueger for enlightening me to the madness *loses d10 sanity

Quote from: HorusArisen;1043718...not a single thing you wrote makes sense except to remind me why I avoid mixing real life and gaming. However thanks for explaining as best you can to this apolitical slob.

Basically it just means if you're not a hardcore, virtual signaling progressive, you might as well be burning down orphanages.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1043698Let's say they were. Then being removed from the panel, or shut down by the moderator, would be the answer.

I followed Alison Tieman's youtube stuff (The person in question) for a while before the Calgary Expo incident. She likes to talk, and talks a lot.
But the panel was asking what they probably thought was a rhetorical question, and Alison offered to answer it. When they said "Go ahead" (or something similar, I'm paraphrasing) they gave her permission to speak.
Alison politely, if emphatically, said her piece, and then sat down. The recording is uploaded for all to hear it. (https://youtu.be/tyBfJuvopPg) (Always be recording. That's something she learned from being an MRA. The "opposition" love to lie about details like that.)

Quote from: HorusArisen;1043718...not a single thing you wrote makes sense except to remind me why I avoid mixing real life and gaming. However thanks for explaining as best you can to this apolitical slob.

This is like all those nonces on the TBP wringing their hands because that guy who wrote something for Battletech has been accused of something and owning it makes them tainted by association. Of the other guy from who wrote some savage worlds stuff SPF. Or the Last Citadel guy...is their anyone in the RPG world not sexually harassing, molesting or looking at someone in the wrong way?

I now exit this thread grateful to CRKrueger for enlightening me to the madness *loses d10 sanity

I have always wanted to play ACKS, and met Tavis years ago at a convention. Seemed like a cool guy.

If Macris has been targeted for wrongthink, and for being politically unreliable, it gives me even more reason to purchase the game and start playing it.

Quote from: HorusArisen;1043708However my morbid curiosity is enticed, what does ACKs have to do with genocide?

See how hard it is to ignore :D

And I encountered this individual in a thread full of people trying to shame others into not buying ACKs, because once you know the connections doing so makes you a garbage human.

Quote from: HorusArisen;1043718is their anyone in the RPG world not sexually harassing, molesting or looking at someone in the wrong way?

No.

It really is as bad as women say. The problem is the 'community' they foster enables this kind of harassment. And you just need to look up 'reset the clock' to see how many of their members have been outed for sexual harassment, pedophilia, or being on the fucking sex offender registry.

There also comes a point where you have to worry about the connections when/if you discuss gaming with non-gamers, which is exactly the kind of thing necessary to expand the 'community'. And while they may not be familiar with #Gamergate, they've likely been exposed to MSM stories which paint us as misogynists, Nazis, and school shooters.

In short, certain members of the gaming community continually paint their community as being full of bad people, shame people who are unaware of this nonsense, attack people who don't want to deal with this nonsense, and then wonder why there aren't more good people involved. Like a lot of game designers they've created a system which does exactly the opposite of that intended, and all they'll be left with are a handful of bitter angry people ruling over an empire of ash.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1043745See how hard it is to ignore :D

And I encountered this individual in a thread full of people trying to shame others into not buying ACKs, because once you know the connections doing so makes you a garbage human.



No.

It really is as bad as women say. The problem is the 'community' they foster enables this kind of harassment. And you just need to look up 'reset the clock' to see how many of their members have been outed for sexual harassment, pedophilia, or being on the fucking sex offender registry.

There also comes a point where you have to worry about the connections when/if you discuss gaming with non-gamers, which is exactly the kind of thing necessary to expand the 'community'. And while they may not be familiar with #Gamergate, they've likely been exposed to MSM stories which paint us as misogynists, Nazis, and school shooters.

In short, certain members of the gaming community continually paint their community as being full of bad people, shame people who are unaware of this nonsense, attack people who don't want to deal with this nonsense, and then wonder why there aren't more good people involved. Like a lot of game designers they've created a system which does exactly the opposite of that intended, and all they'll be left with are a handful of bitter angry people ruling over an empire of ash.

Lol I just assumed there was some fantasy equivalent of the killing fields going on. I won't buy ACKs because it uses a system I don't like anything else is just white noise polluting the gaming airwaves.

As to the rest I shall blissfully go back to my ignorance.

Quote from: HorusArisen;1043766I won't buy ACKs because it uses a system I don't like anything else is just white noise polluting the gaming airwaves.

All good and moral decent humans have a sacred duty to buy ACKS!

And Dwimmermount, if you're feeling really hardcore.

Quote from: jhkim;1043524If regular convention attendees are being ejected for no good reason, then talk about that. That sounds bad to me if it is really happening.

Instead, the tragedies that I'm hearing about is that some people are being denied their God-given right to be guest of honor, or people are being horrendously forced to have a politically-related talk somewhere in the same hotel that they are gaming at.

The injury is not so much to Larry. It is to the people who wanted to see him at the con. Most of them were going to the con anyway. Some of them were thinking about going and his invitation pushed them over the edge. Others, I only know one who fit this description, were not even considering going but decided to go because of Larry. I don't think any of those people can get their money back. I don't know any of the people who complained about his being invited but, if the data could be gotten, that a large minority of them or more had no plans to attend.

Quote from: S'mon;1043810All good and moral decent humans have a sacred duty to buy ACKS!

And Dwimmermount, if you're feeling really hardcore.

When he converts it all to BRP I’ll take a look :p

Quote from: HorusArisen;1043879When he converts it all to BRP I'll take a look :p

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2546[/ATTACH]

Quote from: WillInNewHaven;1043849Others, I only know one who fit this description, were not even considering going but decided to go because of Larry. I don't think any of those people can get their money back.

I personally know of one who complained to GAMA about Larry's disinviting and was able to get her money back as a result.

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;1043880[ATTACH=CONFIG]2546[/ATTACH]

Thanks but I was joking, I'm pretty sure I could hack an ACKs style game using Mythras and say Empires and classic fantasy. There's never a good reason to waste time or money on a D&D/d20 derived game, it's usually being done better elsewhere.

Quote from: HorusArisen;1043896Thanks but I was joking, I'm pretty sure I could hack an ACKs style game using Mythras and say Empires and classic fantasy. There's never a good reason to waste time or money on a D&D/d20 derived game, it's usually being done better elsewhere.

So was I. That book is a relic of a bygone age. ;)

Quote from: Nerzenjäger;1043900So was I. That book is a relic of a bygone age. ;)

Ah well played sir :cool:

The entire real point of anti-harassment policies is to enable the would-be SJW-overlords of the hobby to kick out anyone they don't like, with no logical reason required, since their mere presence is 'offensive'.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1044620The entire real point of anti-harassment policies is to enable the would-be SJW-overlords of the hobby to kick out anyone they don't like, with no logical reason required, since their mere presence is 'offensive'.

This.

SJWs Always Project.

Therefore they seek do what they accuse of others, and using vague and easily games "harassment" policies or Codes of Conduct is now a well-known scam they routinely pull; put the tool in place, and then get put into place to wield it. Wield early and often to purge wrong-thinkers, completing the conquest and convergence of the organization/event.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1044620The entire real point of anti-harassment policies is to enable the would-be SJW-overlords of the hobby to kick out anyone they don't like, with no logical reason required, since their mere presence is 'offensive'.

To say that all anti-harassment policies are bad because some folks use them abusively is a bit short-sighted. In fact there's technically one for this forum, which in my opinion you've over-enforced.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1041709I'm like Johnny Ringo, and I am standing up to Anita by NOT going to GenCon.

And besides, your mom won't let you go.

Quote from: DocJones;1045297And besides, your mom won't let you go.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2562[/ATTACH]

Quote from: bayonetbrant;1043895I personally know of one who complained to GAMA about Larry's disinviting and was able to get her money back as a result.

That's great news.

Quote from: bayonetbrant;1043895I personally know of one who complained to GAMA about Larry's disinviting and was able to get her money back as a result.

Well, that's appropriate at least.

Here you go  the Anita Sarkeesian GENCON 2018 appearance showing she knows fuck all about TRPGs and even when given a softball question cannot even answer it properly. https://watch.thefantasy.network/gen-con-industry-guest-of-honor/season:1/videos/gen-con-conversations-anita-sarkesian (https://watch.thefantasy.network/gen-con-industry-guest-of-honor/season:1/videos/gen-con-conversations-anita-sarkesian)

Got a time stamp?  I can't force myself to sit through Crane and Sarkeesian's verbal mutual-masturbation.

Quote from: kythri;1089054Got a time stamp?  I can't force myself to sit through Crane and Sarkeesian's verbal mutual-masturbation.

40:45 is a good one.

Quote from: kythri;1089054Got a time stamp?  I can't force myself to sit through Crane and Sarkeesian's verbal mutual-masturbation.

Greetings!

My god, Kythri. Sarkeesian mentions on more than one occasion that she's an "activist." The special liberal buzz-words that spew from her mouth....*sigh* Oh, but it's all of those evil, white racists, misogynists, and bigots that want everyone in gaming to be so *oppressed*!!!:D

This chick is so dense and narcissistic she can't even begin to imagine why anyone would find her so repulsive.

I struggled through almost the whole thing--most of the latter half. The constant yammering about activism, oppression, sexism, problematic, on and on. What kind of games do these morons actually play? I love this one quote...she said something like.."Once you learn about all of the misogyny, racism, and oppression...you begin to see it everywhere!"

My mind wanted to explode from a grenade right there. Who the fuck is playing games at your table where they *see* all of this, everywhere? Furthermore, geesus...I wouldn't *want* to play with anyone that noticed all of this, everywhere. Before recent times, I can't think of any normal gamer that ever brought any of this stupid shit up.

*sigh* These delusional morons actually are baffled and so deeply shocked that so many gamers hate them? They are so shocked that so many gamers don't want to game with them, or come to see them at a convention? *SHARK smacks forehead*:D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK;1089072Greetings!

My god, Kythri. Sarkeesian mentions on more than one occasion that she's an "activist." The special liberal buzz-words that spew from her mouth....*sigh* Oh, but it's all of those evil, white racists, misogynists, and bigots that want everyone in gaming to be so *oppressed*!!!:D

This chick is so dense and narcissistic she can't even begin to imagine why anyone would find her so repulsive.

I struggled through almost the whole thing--most of the latter half. The constant yammering about activism, oppression, sexism, problematic, on and on. What kind of games do these morons actually play? I love this one quote...she said something like.."Once you learn about all of the misogyny, racism, and oppression...you begin to see it everywhere!"

My mind wanted to explode from a grenade right there. Who the fuck is playing games at your table where they *see* all of this, everywhere? Furthermore, geesus...I wouldn't *want* to play with anyone that noticed all of this, everywhere. Before recent times, I can't think of any normal gamer that ever brought any of this stupid shit up.

*sigh* These delusional morons actually are baffled and so deeply shocked that so many gamers hate them? They are so shocked that so many gamers don't want to game with them, or come to see them at a convention? *SHARK smacks forehead*:D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

She's not a zealot tho, she's a con artist getting all the bucks she can from the woke crowd. The smart ones usually don't believe the BS they peddle, just like the gay televangelists of yore.

As with communism/socialism (intersectionality is cultural marxism) the smarter ones don't believe and the morons are the zealots and useful idiots.

Quote from: SHARK;1089072The constant yammering about activism, oppression, sexism, problematic, on and on. What kind of games do these morons actually play?

I think the simplest answer, while perhaps reductive, is "they don't."

Sarkeesian in particular has turned this sort of faux social outrage over hobbies she has never actually participated in (obvious from her multiple stories about how she got into videogames, RPGs, how her 'career' developed, etc. which blatantly conflict with each other in MAJOR ways) into a personal for-profit enterprise, but she's hardly the only one guilty of doing so.

Between stirring up (honestly more like 'conjuring up') new shit, offering terrible and overpriced 'services' (a few of which I'm pretty sure have been cons, but I haven't read into those far enough to know) that get purchased by people enamored with her message, and sucking imbecilic morons into her Patreon to fund... something, presumably... and because women (??).

Well, she's got a pretty good gig going. Particularly considering how she's wormed her way into the limelight consistently and repeatedly, now to the point of being invited to major panels and speaking events like she's some kind of fucking soothsayer for the 'marginalized,' giving her easy exposure for future ventures and virtually enshrining her presence in wider 'geekdom' for as many years as she cares to stay.

The most interesting part, to me, is how blatant she is about it. Even with the insane ideas she has about these hobbies, gamergate, blah blah she doesn't come off as remotely sympathetic or genuine about any of her causes. She's grinning through pointed teeth as she purposefully inflames/distresses/exploits people she claims to be 'fighting for' in the simple pursuits of cold, naked profit and personal notoriety.

Normally I'd say I wouldn't piss on her to put out the fire, but I think I'd honestly prefer watching my piss melt her into a puddle ala the Wicked Witch of the West.

"What a world! What a worlddd..."

Quote from: Antiquation!;1089078I think the simplest answer, while perhaps reductive, is "they don't."

Sarkeesian in particular has turned this sort of faux social outrage over hobbies she has never actually participated in (obvious from her multiple stories about how she got into videogames, RPGs, how her 'career' developed, etc. which blatantly conflict with each other in MAJOR ways) into a personal for-profit enterprise, but she's hardly the only one guilty of doing so.

Between stirring up (honestly more like 'conjuring up') new shit, offering terrible and overpriced 'services' (a few of which I'm pretty sure have been cons, but I haven't read into those far enough to know) that get purchased by people enamored with her message, and sucking imbecilic morons into her Patreon to fund... something, presumably... and because women (??).

Well, she's got a pretty good gig going. Particularly considering how she's wormed her way into the limelight consistently and repeatedly, now to the point of being invited to major panels and speaking events like she's some kind of fucking soothsayer for the 'marginalized,' giving her easy exposure for future ventures and virtually enshrining her presence in wider 'geekdom' for as many years as she cares to stay.

The most interesting part, to me, is how blatant she is about it. Even with the insane ideas she has about these hobbies, gamergate, blah blah she doesn't come off as remotely sympathetic or genuine about any of her causes. She's grinning through pointed teeth as she purposefully inflames/distresses/exploits people she claims to be 'fighting for' in the simple pursuits of cold, naked profit and personal notoriety.

Normally I'd say I wouldn't piss on her to put out the fire, but I think I'd honestly prefer watching my piss melt her into a puddle ala the Wicked Witch of the West.

"What a world! What a worlddd..."

Anita Sarkeesian is the Fred Phelps of the Left.

Seriously, she needs to get her ass kicked by a guy like Archie Bunker.

After she gets beaten like the bitch she is, Anita Sarkeesian should make Archie a sandwich and give him a blowjob. And if she doesn't swallow his cum, then we'll deport her to North Korea!

Here is a great video where Archie Bunker utterly annihilates the concepts of "intersectionality" and "critical race theory"

[video=youtube;ffh09f4TdM8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffh09f4TdM8&t=7s[/youtube]

Commie Punks Fuck Off!

There is nothing white people like more than a pretty white woman. Good thing she has no market power.

Quote from: Lurtch;1089096There is nothing white people like more than a pretty white woman. Good thing she has no market power.

Indeed!

How else do you think a murderous hillbilly bitch like Amanda Knox was able to get away with murder?

She was a pretty white girl and the liberal media raised a stink, so the Obama Administration violated protocol and strong-armed Italy (one of our own NATO allies) into releasing a murderous redneck cunt.

Amanda Knox was the biggest miscarriage of justice since OJ Simpson.

Well, until the SJW harpies sent the Radfem Inquisition otherwise known as #MeToo after a talented and innocent voice actor like Vic Mignogna.

They slandered Vic for his religious beliefs (he is a devout Christian) and for his Italian-American heritage.

I'm no fan of Christianity but you don't ruin an innocent man's life because you don't agree with his personal religious convictions.

Also, the SJW's hate the proud Italian people since they helped lay the foundations of Western Civilization (Roman Empire, The Renaissance, and so forth) and they are not the precious "POC's" that the SJW's fetishize and they're not the inbred Celtic-blooded evolutionary cul-de-sacs like Amanda Knox or the SJW's themselves.

Most white SJW's tend to all be green-eyed micks. Either they're Shanty Irish urban hipsters in the coastal cities or they're inbred Scots-Irish hillbillies rightfully ashamed of their degenerate and inferior barbarian culture and have decided to overcompensate by adapting far-left intersectional bullshit.

The Reformation was a mistake and we should have turned the Scots-Irish away from the docks when they came to this country.

VIVA ITALIA! SENATUS POPULUS QUE ROMANUS!

[video=youtube;fqTSWch2s7Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqTSWch2s7Y[/youtube]

SEND THE CELTS BACK TO THEIR BOGS! REMOVE CORNBREAD!

Quote from: Lurtch;1089096There is nothing white people like more than a pretty white woman. Good thing she has no market power.

She's pretty..?

Quote from: Brad;1089106She's pretty..?

By the standards of inbred green-eyed Celtic chuds, she is.

The insular Celtic peoples of Ireland, Scotland, and Wales are infamous for fucking sheep.

And the Scots-Irish diaspora in Appalachia have been known to stick their dicks into anything, from their own blood relatives to Ned Beatty.

I mean, I'm a degenerate green-eyed Appalachian untermensch, but I don't find Anita Sarkeesian attractive because I educated myself and know better.

I may be a Celt, but I am a Romanized Celt, goddammit!

Quote from: Lurtch;1089096There is nothing white people like more than a pretty white woman. Good thing she has no market power.

Well she does not have danger hair so that is one plus.

Quote from: Shasarak;1089111Well she does not have danger hair so that is one plus.

For once, Shasarak is right about something.

Brightly colored hair only looks attractive on anime characters.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1089113For once, Shasarak is right about something.

Brightly colored hair only looks attractive on anime characters.

I guess that makes us 1 - 0

Quote from: Shasarak;1089114I guess that makes us 1 - 0

More like 1-1, but New Zealand's schools are even shittier than America's.

At least our mass shooters are smart enough not to livestream their massacres to campy Serbian polka music.

Enjoy your trip to Sunday worship, hope you don't get capped by some pissed-off Australian tard trying to ignite a jihad because PewDiePie and Spyro the Dragon told him to.

REMOVE MUTTON! AMERICA STRONG!

[video=youtube;0tUUe7Y29To]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tUUe7Y29To[/youtube]

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1089116More like 1-1, but New Zealand's schools are even shittier than America's.

I guess that makes me 2 - 0 now.

Thanks for playing.

Quote from: Shasarak;1089119I guess that makes me 2 - 0 now.

Thanks for playing.

More like 2-1, given your own stupidity and the far more grevious stupidity of your government.

You New Zealanders really are a bunch of dumb fags.

Remember that time your country's national police were cucked by the admin of a Chris-Chan trolling forum? (by the name of Kiwi Farms, no less!)

Spoiler

Boone's Farm Remembers (https://kiwifarms.net/threads/2019-03-17-new-zealand-police-we-would-like-to-preserve-any-posts-and-technical-data-including-ip-addresses-email-addresses-etc.54376/) (Warning: Kiwi Farms link, possibly NSFW, but text only)

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1089075She's not a zealot tho, she's a con artist getting all the bucks she can from the woke crowd. The smart ones usually don't believe the BS they peddle, just like the gay televangelists of yore.

As with communism/socialism (intersectionality is cultural marxism) the smarter ones don't believe and the morons are the zealots and useful idiots.

Early in someone called her out as a grifter. And watching her vids she is practically telegraphing how much she does not believe any of this and is just milking the woke and epecialy the rubes of every dime she can.

But I think at some point she may have snapped and started being poisoned by her own venom. Either that or she had some sort of grander scam in the works that seems to have fallen apart. Least I hope so. Everyone would have been totally fucked had she gotten her way at the UN meeting. And she very nearly did too.

Quote from: Omega;1089121Early in someone called her out as a grifter. And watching her vids she is practically telegraphing how much she does not believe any of this and is just milking the woke and epecialy the rubes of every dime she can.

But I think at some point she may have snapped and started being poisoned by her own venom. Either that or she had some sort of grander scam in the works that seems to have fallen apart. Least I hope so. Everyone would have been totally fucked had she gotten her way at the UN meeting. And she very nearly did too.

Well she's got her claws in some video games related stuff, WotC, Google, Twater and who knows where else (Intel?), so we dodged a MOAB and are being peppered with 50mm slugs.

Sometimes the conartist starts believing their own tripe.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1089107By the standards of inbred green-eyed Celtic chuds, she is.

The insular Celtic peoples of Ireland, Scotland, and Wales are infamous for fucking sheep.

And the Scots-Irish diaspora in Appalachia have been known to stick their dicks into anything, from their own blood relatives to Ned Beatty.

I mean, I'm a degenerate green-eyed Appalachian untermensch, but I don't find Anita Sarkeesian attractive because I educated myself and know better.

I may be a Celt, but I am a Romanized Celt, goddammit!

Are you still not taking your meds?

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1089120More like 2-1, given your own stupidity and the far more grevious stupidity of your government.

You New Zealanders really are a bunch of dumb fags.

Remember that time your country's national police were cucked by the admin of a Chris-Chan trolling forum? (by the name of Kiwi Farms, no less!)

Spoiler

Boone's Farm Remembers (https://kiwifarms.net/threads/2019-03-17-new-zealand-police-we-would-like-to-preserve-any-posts-and-technical-data-including-ip-addresses-email-addresses-etc.54376/) (Warning: Kiwi Farms link, possibly NSFW, but text only)

Signs point to "in need of medication".

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1089107By the standards of inbred green-eyed Celtic chuds, she is.

The insular Celtic peoples of Ireland, Scotland, and Wales are infamous for fucking sheep.

And the Scots-Irish diaspora in Appalachia have been known to stick their dicks into anything, from their own blood relatives to Ned Beatty.

I mean, I'm a degenerate green-eyed Appalachian untermensch, but I don't find Anita Sarkeesian attractive because I educated myself and know better.

I may be a Celt, but I am a Romanized Celt, goddammit!

You are making a complete asshole out of yourself yet again.

Quote from: Gagarth;1089144You are making a complete asshole out of yourself yet again.

It's like taking and being around someone you need to constantly walk on egg shells with. One never knows what will set that person off. Cue the constant apology about the bad behavior while blaming it on what is happening with his life yet again

Quote from: sureshot;1089145It's like taking and being around someone you need to constantly walk on egg shells with. One never knows what will set that person off. Cue the constant apology about the bad behavior while blaming it on what is happening with his life yet again

Nah, I'll own my own shit on this one.

That recent bout of bad behavior is all on me and I ain't gonna apologize to Shasarak because he's an even bigger asshole than I am.

And considering how awful I am, that is bad.

But for the sake of the thread, I will drop it.

All well and good to apologize even  better to not keep repeating the same behavior. Who knows when the next poster or post will trigger another meltdown. Only to be given another apology. Maybe it's time to take a break from this forum or the internet in general.

It's completely understandable to be in a state of personal flux.

Friends advise friends to re-center themselves in private rather than public.  If you have to apologize more than once after hitting a man, then fists aren't something good to use at the moment.  Same goes with the tongue.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1089104I'm no fan of Christianity but you don't ruin an innocent man's life because you don't agree with his personal religious convictions.

Sure I do. His name is Jesus and I do it to Him just about every day. Somehow He keeps forgiving me for it, and I try not to do it again... but I'm really bad at it.

Quote from: Tanin Wulf;1089208Sure I do. His name is Jesus and I do it to Him just about every day. Somehow He keeps forgiving me for it, and I try not to do it again... but I'm really bad at it.

Well said.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1089088Anita Sarkeesian is the Fred Phelps of the Left.

Seriously, she needs to get her ass kicked by a guy like Archie Bunker.

After she gets beaten like the bitch she is, Anita Sarkeesian should make Archie a sandwich and give him a blowjob. And if she doesn't swallow his cum, then we'll deport her to North Korea!

Here is a great video where Archie Bunker utterly annihilates the concepts of "intersectionality" and "critical race theory"

[video=youtube;ffh09f4TdM8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffh09f4TdM8&t=7s[/youtube]

Commie Punks Fuck Off!

Don't post in this thread again from here on, this is a WARNING. You are adding nothing to the conversation and you are just trying to veer off-topic into general politics. Don't do this again on the main forum.

Quote from: Lurtch;1089096There is nothing white people like more than a pretty white woman. Good thing she has no market power.

Dude, I know Hollywood has been lowering the bar on what's considered attractive, but Skankeesian isn't remotely pretty.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1089128Sometimes the conartist starts believing their own tripe.

That's my take on her as well.

She jumped on the SJW bandwagon because it gave her fame and money, and its questionable whether or not she totally had drank the Kool-Aid in the early days of Gamergate, but by 2016 it was clear she was signed on wholeheartedly to her crusade.

Quote from: shuddemell;1089142Signs point to "in need of medication".

Doc needs to get his ass off the computer and walk in those beautiful Appalachian woods. Fresh air and exercise would do more for his head than a bucketful of drugs.

Quote from: Gagarth;1089046Here you go  the Anita Sarkeesian GENCON 2018 appearance showing she knows fuck all about TRPGs and even when given a softball question cannot even answer it properly. https://watch.thefantasy.network/gen-con-industry-guest-of-honor/season:1/videos/gen-con-conversations-anita-sarkesian (https://watch.thefantasy.network/gen-con-industry-guest-of-honor/season:1/videos/gen-con-conversations-anita-sarkesian)

Uncommon conversation? More like awkward conversation.

I'm surprised they released the video at all considering how ignorant it makes her look. And despite claiming she's tired of being 'retraumitized' talking about her harassment still included a question about in the stack so she could talk about it.

Quote from: SHARK;1089072she said something like.."Once you learn about all of the misogyny, racism, and oppression...you begin to see it everywhere!"

Of course you do once you've been conditioned to interpret everything in that context! That's how conspiracy theories are established. That's how mass hysteria starts. That's how mentalists mess with our minds.

#Enigma23

It's also why #SJWs label everything which counters it hateful, harmful, and immoral. It's why they silence critics rather than engage in debate. It's why they see inquiry as a threat. It's why audience members were not allowed to film or ask questions.