OK, I started out telling myself that GEEK was going to stay small, but I have been sought out to help with starting the Knoxville Gaming Convention. May God have mercy on my soul.
The soft launch of this will be 08/24-08/25 as part of the local horror convention called CreepyCon, so not a lot of time to prepare. The feeling I have is that this could either be totally awesome or absolutely suck, there won't be much in-between. The full convention will be next year at the end of July, so plenty of time to prepare for that.
So, wish me luck. People with more experience, give me all the advice you can. I will be picking the brains of the massive knowledge base that hangs out on this forum.
And now, I've got to call in the troops and do some planning.
Good luck.
What are you using for a location? Still library's?
Quote from: Headless;1044083Good luck.
What are you using for a location? Still library's?
No, much bigger than the library meeting rooms. Right now, the Knoxvile Convention Center is the venue site and that is a 500,000 square foot facility. I'm thinking that it is a bit too large to start out with, but I'm not the one footing the bill.
FYI for everyone, here's the CreepyCon website
https://creepyconknoxville.com
BTW, their code of conduct rocks:
If you are behaving like a douche bag, we will remove you from Creepycon without a refund.
Here is video from their first con in 2017
https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/2017/09/09/inaugural-creepycon-attracts-thousands/105433612/
Jeff, you have 2 months. You're that special kind of fucked where you have just enough time to work your ass off to get shitty results. I don't envy you in the slightest and if I was a douchebag, I'd send my thoughts and prayers.
But I'm an asshole, not a douche, so here's my advice:
1) Forget about the 2019 convention for now. All guns on the August 24th CreepyCon target.
2) Tell us EXACTLY what the deal is for your crew at CreepyCon. Data dump on us like German scheisse porn!
3) LARP motherfucker LARP! CreepyCon is ground zero for cosplay. Might as well do some live roleplay with them.
4) Sound the local alarm. You need all the organized play goobers of all stripes. WTF the Camarilla is calling itself, the 5e AL, Paizo's PFS, are the first targets. THEN you go onto the official boards of all the "major" games and call for their demo teams to show their asses. I know Palladium has GMs in Knoxville. BTW, Kevin has been advertising local cons via his weekly Palladium newsletter.
5) Can you give free badges to GMs who work X hours? If so, what is X?
6) You need to advertise the fuck out of this, both online and off, starting NOW. Does GEEK have a FB page? The answer is yes by tomorrow. It also will need a website by the end of the week. Your org needs to look bigger and more professional to give itself credibility so people want to trust you can deliver fun. Also, legitimacy makes it easier to source prize support from companies and vendors.
7) Do you have a budget? How much? AKA, for marketing, badges, prizes, etc? If not, get one ASAP. Free food is a huge draw. Snack bowls, thank you baggies for GMs, bowl of M&Ms, homemade cookiets, etc.
8) Is this RPGs only? If not, you need a horror boardgame track. There are a fuckton of current horror boardgames from Arkham Horror, Elder Sign, Cthulhu Wars, Zombicide, etc. I would limit boardgames to horror themed as its CreepyCon. Hell, I'd get ALL the non-Org Play RPG GMs to focus on horror events.
Answer questions and I will armchair general more noise at you!
Quote from: Spinachcat;1044254FYI for everyone, here's the CreepyCon website
https://creepyconknoxville.com
BTW, their code of conduct rocks:
If you are behaving like a douche bag, we will remove you from Creepycon without a refund.
Here is video from their first con in 2017
https://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/2017/09/09/inaugural-creepycon-attracts-thousands/105433612/
I know! I love it! They are NO BULLSHIT!
Quote from: Spinachcat;1044254Jeff, you have 2 months. You're that special kind of fucked where you have just enough time to work your ass off to get shitty results. I don't envy you in the slightest and if I was a douchebag, I'd send my thoughts and prayers.
But I'm an asshole, not a douche, so here's my advice:
Yup, I'm already busy as Hell. I cancelled this month's GEEK event to concentrate on this.
Quote from: Spinachcat;10442541) Forget about the 2019 convention for now. All guns on the August 24th CreepyCon target.
And more importantly, how things go at CreepyCon will show me where I need to concentrate my efforts because a year away is still a year away and a lot can happen in a year.
Quote from: Spinachcat;10442542) Tell us EXACTLY what the deal is for your crew at CreepyCon. Data dump on us like German scheisse porn!
We have been given a space with ample room for ten tables. GEEK gets to manage the tabletop gaming and have a table of our own. I get a badge for the weekend and every GM who works for 8 hours gets one. There will be a game library available there.
So far the plan is to have me work the whole convention and have other demonstration team members who run given badges for the days they run.
Quote from: Spinachcat;10442543) LARP motherfucker LARP! CreepyCon is ground zero for cosplay. Might as well do some live roleplay with them.
Cosplayers have been alerted to the venue and I have three of them who are also ex-dancers talked into being booth babes. I plan to have them alternating working the tables (because they also game) and roaming the convention floor handing out flyers and free bottles of water. Yes, I am a horrible horrible man because I will be using innocent women and their feminine wiles to help sell a gaming convention idea.
Quote from: Spinachcat;10442544) Sound the local alarm. You need all the organized play goobers of all stripes. WTF the Camarilla is calling itself, the 5e AL, Paizo's PFS, are the first targets. THEN you go onto the official boards of all the "major" games and call for their demo teams to show their asses. I know Palladium has GMs in Knoxville. BTW, Kevin has been advertising local cons via his weekly Palladium newsletter.
Yeah, I'll be talking to the Organized Play people tomorrow. Local AL annoys me with their leadership's attitude, but running games there will get butts in seats.
Quote from: Spinachcat;10442545) Can you give free badges to GMs who work X hours? If so, what is X?
A free 1-day badge goes to each GM who runs 2 3-hour convention games. I know, not a lot of time, but just enough to get people's feet wet.
Quote from: Spinachcat;10442546) You need to advertise the fuck out of this, both online and off, starting NOW. Does GEEK have a FB page? The answer is yes by tomorrow. It also will need a website by the end of the week. Your org needs to look bigger and more professional to give itself credibility so people want to trust you can deliver fun. Also, legitimacy makes it easier to source prize support from companies and vendors.
GEEK FB page. (https://www.facebook.com/groups/1953923471603492/) One of the perks of working with the local library system is that helps us look legit.
I want to see if this works before I start begging publishers for prize support.
Quote from: Spinachcat;10442547) Do you have a budget? How much? AKA, for marketing, badges, prizes, etc? If not, get one ASAP. Free food is a huge draw. Snack bowls, thank you baggies for GMs, bowl of M&Ms, homemade cookiets, etc.
I am budgeting $500 for this adventure. A banner is already being designed. I have giveaway copies of all the games that I will be demonstrating and will be trying to help do the same with the others. As far as snacks go, there will be some available for those who participate in the games. Plus the free cold bottled water being given away by the booth babes.
Quote from: Spinachcat;10442548) Is this RPGs only? If not, you need a horror boardgame track. There are a fuckton of current horror boardgames from Arkham Horror, Elder Sign, Cthulhu Wars, Zombicide, etc. I would limit boardgames to horror themed as its CreepyCon. Hell, I'd get ALL the non-Org Play RPG GMs to focus on horror events.
It is not RPGs only. We have a member who specializes in board games and one who specializes in wargames. Everything we plan on running that con will have a horror theme.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1044254Answer questions and I will armchair general more noise at you!
Schweet!
Awesome! Good luck! :cool: (And may God have mercy on your soul. :( )
Good luck!
A couple things I've learned helping run a convention or two, and attending several;
1. There are lots of examples; but "game looking for players" stand up signs for the table, with the number of players needed. Super helpful in the board/card game area.
2. Keep sign-ups for board/card games in one area, and RPGs in another (and LARPS, and ...). Make it clear this is where people can sign up. Bonus points using a digital solution. Orca Con uses Sched (https://sched.com/?utm_campaign=web&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=header&utm_source=orcacon2018). Dragonflight uses Tabletop Events (https://tabletop.events/). Both are easy to use. Sched has a mobile app with alerts IIRC.
3. Include "power" options for RPG signups. Lots of GMs these days need extension cord for laptop. It's best when mapping out the floor to designate "powered" tables and strategically tape down cords with the least amount of foot traffic.
4. Lights!! Been to several conventions where the RPG setup is too dark! Check lighting at night in the various gaming areas and ensure they are well lit. If not, negotiate with your venue to provide additional lighting.
5. Wi-Fi! Even if you have to charge a nominal feel to cover the venue charge, gamers often need internet access and people are very connected these days.
If I think if other things, I'll post 'em here.
Just another cosplay MeetUp.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1044254BTW, their code of conduct rocks
Quote from: jeff37923;1044270I know! I love it! They are NO BULLSHIT!
Hmm, I dunno. All that's really different is they don't virtue signal. If you look at the policy, there's 3 points.
1. As a ticket holder for Creepycon, we expect you to be kind and respectful to each other, to our vendors, to our performers and to our staff as well as the staff of SMG and the World's Fair Exhibition Hall.
2. If you are behaving like a douche bag, we will remove you from Creepycon without a refund.
3. If you feel your safety is at risk at anytime, please locate a member of the Creepycon staff or an employee of the World's Fair Exhibition Hall with your concern and we will take care of the problem.
Without any specifics given for #2, combined with #3, means they can kick you out because your zombie cosplay included a MAGA hat, or you looked at the hot chick barely dressed as Vampirella, same as any SJW con.
Quote from: CRKrueger;1044424Hmm, I dunno. All that's really different is they don't virtue signal. If you look at the policy, there's 3 points.
1. As a ticket holder for Creepycon, we expect you to be kind and respectful to each other, to our vendors, to our performers and to our staff as well as the staff of SMG and the World's Fair Exhibition Hall.
2. If you are behaving like a douche bag, we will remove you from Creepycon without a refund.
3. If you feel your safety is at risk at anytime, please locate a member of the Creepycon staff or an employee of the World's Fair Exhibition Hall with your concern and we will take care of the problem.
Without any specifics given for #2, combined with #3, means they can kick you out because your zombie cosplay included a MAGA hat, or you looked at the hot chick barely dressed as Vampirella, same as any SJW con.
It's usually better off that way since you can't account for every possible scenario that comes up and sometimes someone hasn't showered for 3 months and has to be kicked out.
Quote from: trechriron;1044372Good luck!
A couple things I've learned helping run a convention or two, and attending several;
I'm all ears and taking notes.
Quote from: trechriron;10443721. There are lots of examples; but "game looking for players" stand up signs for the table, with the number of players needed. Super helpful in the board/card game area.
One of the first things I did was get some plastic table toppers from Office Depot so that we looked professional - they have helped immensely.
Quote from: trechriron;10443722. Keep sign-ups for board/card games in one area, and RPGs in another (and LARPS, and ...). Make it clear this is where people can sign up. Bonus points using a digital solution. Orca Con uses Sched (https://sched.com/?utm_campaign=web&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=header&utm_source=orcacon2018). Dragonflight uses Tabletop Events (https://tabletop.events/). Both are easy to use. Sched has a mobile app with alerts IIRC.
OK, the specific genres of games will be split up like you suggest already.
The smartphone apps you are suggesting will be tested to see which and if they are good fits for implementation. I only have experience with these type of apps from ConNooga, but I really liked the results. Thank you for those links!
Quote from: trechriron;10443723. Include "power" options for RPG signups. Lots of GMs these days need extension cord for laptop. It's best when mapping out the floor to designate "powered" tables and strategically tape down cords with the least amount of foot traffic.
4. Lights!! Been to several conventions where the RPG setup is too dark! Check lighting at night in the various gaming areas and ensure they are well lit. If not, negotiate with your venue to provide additional lighting.
5. Wi-Fi! Even if you have to charge a nominal feel to cover the venue charge, gamers often need internet access and people are very connected these days.
Power and WiFi access must be prepaid, but I am willing to spring for that out of my own pocket because knowing that it works in the game area will help bring in people to the spot.
Lighting, I do not know about, but I can tryu to get in to the convention center and check out the area beforehand.
Quote from: trechriron;1044372If I think if other things, I'll post 'em here.
I'd appreciate it!
OK, well I'm not doing the convention anymore. The organizer called me on the phone and informed me that the ten tables I was told I'd have are now going to be used by the local chapter of the Adventurer's League. I'd get to use a set of three tables away from the main gaming area, in another section of the convention. This just became too much of a headache to want to deal with. So I told the organizer goodbye.
I'm tired of this bullshit. The Organized Play fuck-o's want their shit to be the only public game in town and they can have it. I'm buying a house and going to direct my efforts to things that are more rewarding for me personally like home games and writing. Everything else, I am putting on hold.
Quote from: jeff37923;1053080OK, well I'm not doing the convention anymore. The organizer called me on the phone and informed me that the ten tables I was told I'd have are now going to be used by the local chapter of the Adventurer's League. I'd get to use a set of three tables away from the main gaming area, in another section of the convention. This just became too much of a headache to want to deal with. So I told the organizer goodbye.
I'm tired of this bullshit. The Organized Play fuck-o's want their shit to be the only public game in town and they can have it. I'm buying a house and going to direct my efforts to things that are more rewarding for me personally like home games and writing. Everything else, I am putting on hold.
That sucks. I know what its like from organizing LDRC where everyone's trying to fuck you and then, when you get the shit done, suddenly you now have to deal with a bunch of little red hens. I've learned so much out of doing it, about people and events and negotiation and business and... way more than I thought I would have when I first started out. But mannn... people
test you.
So what was the situation with these guys? How long's it been going on? Think you'll do con or a club independently?
That sucks, but you also dodged a potential bullet. If the organizers didn't see the value you were bringing, chances are there would have been a snafu closer to the con (or at the con) after you did even more work. I wonder if AL will be able to fill those tables. Your concept of horror themed games for a horror con make a fuckton more sense.
I really don't understand why the con would want to separate gaming spaces. I wonder if that was an AL request as well. And yes, Organized Play is VERY territorial, and an incestuous little freak club best avoided. You've got my quote in your sig and I absolutely stand by that.
I hope you continue GEEK because I believe a non-AL gaming Meetup has strong potential.
Good luck with home buying. Location is key 'cuz you can always tear down and rebuild a shack into a McMansion!
Quote from: jeff37923;1053080OK, well I'm not doing the convention anymore. The organizer called me on the phone and informed me that the ten tables I was told I'd have are now going to be used by the local chapter of the Adventurer's League. I'd get to use a set of three tables away from the main gaming area, in another section of the convention. This just became too much of a headache to want to deal with. So I told the organizer goodbye.
I'm tired of this bullshit. The Organized Play fuck-o's want their shit to be the only public game in town and they can have it. I'm buying a house and going to direct my efforts to things that are more rewarding for me personally like home games and writing. Everything else, I am putting on hold.
I wish I could buy a house in response to my headaches... :(
Oh, wait. That is tangential, isn't it? Congratulations! :)
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1053087So what was the situation with these guys? How long's it been going on?
I'm at odds with the local leaders of the Adventurer's League, and one of them is close friends of the owner of a local bar who is loaning arcade style videogames to the convention and my table space was part of the deal AFAIK. It is a start-up gaming convention and I should have seen this coming because the local AL are fans of social justice who have crapped on public play projects of mine in the past.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1053089That sucks, but you also dodged a potential bullet. If the organizers didn't see the value you were bringing, chances are there would have been a snafu closer to the con (or at the con) after you did even more work. I wonder if AL will be able to fill those tables. Your concept of horror themed games for a horror con make a fuckton more sense.
I really don't understand why the con would want to separate gaming spaces. I wonder if that was an AL request as well. And yes, Organized Play is VERY territorial, and an incestuous little freak club best avoided. You've got my quote in your sig and I absolutely stand by that.
I hope you continue GEEK because I believe a non-AL gaming Meetup has strong potential.
Good luck with home buying. Location is key 'cuz you can always tear down and rebuild a shack into a McMansion!
Thanks, but the first thing I must do is buy the house. The closing happens in just under three hours from now.
Quote from: Opaopajr;1053100I wish I could buy a house in response to my headaches... :(
Oh, wait. That is tangential, isn't it? Congratulations! :)
Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1053087Think you'll do con or a club independently?
When I first moved back to Knoxville, there was no dedicated gaming space in any of the FLGS's so a few married guys got together and pooled their spare cash, rented an office space, and opened up a game club known as the Adventurer's Inn. That was over 20 years ago and closed when one partner had to sell his share in order to raise money for cancer treatments.
I'm going to have a 308 sq foot (14' x 22') unattached garage with power going to it to use for whatever I want. I was originally planning a workshop, but that may change. I'm looking into the cost of installing a 1/2 bathroom in there. Might be time for a new Adventurer's Inn.
I will still have almost 1000 sq feet in the main house to do with however I wish.
I'm rethinking how I have GEEK set up and want to reorganize how I did it, with the lessons I've learned in mind. I may let it remain fallow and I may not, still a lot of thinking to do on that one. Although there is a public library branch within walking distance of the house.
Quote from: jeff37923;1053104I'm going to have a 308 sq foot (14' x 22') unattached garage with power going to it to use for whatever I want.
I'd be concerned about liability issues if someone "hurts themselves" on your property.
It sounds like the Adventurer's Inn was commercially zoned, as you referred to rented office space. If so, they probably carried cheap biz insurance.
And we live in FAR more litigious times and it sounds like you have a bit of a target on your back.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1053288I'd be concerned about liability issues if someone "hurts themselves" on your property.
It sounds like the Adventurer's Inn was commercially zoned, as you referred to rented office space. If so, they probably carried cheap biz insurance.
And we live in FAR more litigious times and it sounds like you have a bit of a target on your back.
True. I'm considering all of that. The key is to have it be a members only private club, that way I have a lot more control over who has access.
I'm hopeful. And in the words of Cassian Andor, "Rebellions are built on hope." ;)
Everyone must wear Members Only jackets!
Quote from: Spinachcat;1053319Everyone must wear Members Only jackets!
T-shirts are cheaper.
This sounds like the sjw league is starting a world of suck in your area. They did that in my city and I dumped them and all organized play like a rabid skunk. I run games on my own time and according to my players taste. AL can keep the sjw stuff.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1053319Everyone must wear Members Only jackets!
Yes! :cool: But only for eight months. Then we will all look back and laugh, yet pretend we were never caught up in it ourselves. :D
Quote from: jeff37923;1053321T-shirts are cheaper.
True... but how long will those (regretful) memories last? Members Only jackets are better, (at least for those first year early adopters). ;)
Why haven't tabards come back in style! With all the fantasy fandom in the mainstream, I would expected some medieval fashion revival by now!
Quote from: Spinachcat;1053379Why haven't tabards come back in style! With all the fantasy fandom in the mainstream, I would expected some medieval fashion revival by now!
They'll get caught up in the millenials' bicycle chains, is why. ;) (I keeed! I keeed cuz I luuuv! :D)
If Millennials brought capes back into fashion, it would forgive a multitude of sins.
Jeff, tell us about how a GEEK members only club would work. Even if its just off the cuff brainstorming and thoughts from your previous experiences.
As for T-shirts, you can get those all-over, wrap-around designs at surprisingly good prices these days.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1053446If Millennials brought capes back into fashion, it would forgive a multitude of sins.
Jeff, tell us about how a GEEK members only club would work. Even if its just off the cuff brainstorming and thoughts from your previous experiences.
As for T-shirts, you can get those all-over, wrap-around designs at surprisingly good prices these days.
Well, I had my Business Advisor come by and take a look at the space and I threw the idea by her. The basics are that we fix up the garage to be a habitable space (insulation, drywall, a half-bathroom, window mount A/C unit), place a couple of tables with six chairs each, a microwave oven, a fridge (possible mini, but I can get a full sized one for the same price used), some cheap totes and cabinets for storage of books/terrain/minis, and a small sofa/love seat in there. The members would pay $20 a month for the use of a key to get into the garage and use the club whenever they wish (since it is my house, I get final say over who gets a key). Snacks and drinks will be in the fridge, with a cash box for deposits in order to fund the snacks and drinks supply. The small sofa was suggested for anybody who wants to bring along their significant other to hang out if they don't game. Email and Facebook would be used to communicate and pass on requests for snacks to purchase. Any extra money from the club will be used to pay for utilities, improvements, and club owned gaming gear for use by members.
A lot of the money will be done on an honor system because this will be set up like a club, not necessarily a business, even though I plan to keep financial records and have them be open for perusal by members of the club.
It worked pretty well in the past and I don't see why it wouldn't now. Besides the Adventurer's Inn locally, there also used to be the Yankee Peddler which started out as a wargame club and grew into a FLGS (incidentally where I bought my first copy of Traveller).
Quote from: jeff37923;1053449Well, I had my Business Advisor come by and take a look at the space and I threw the idea by her. The basics are that we fix up the garage to be a habitable space (insulation, drywall, a half-bathroom, window mount A/C unit), place a couple of tables with six chairs each, a microwave oven, a fridge (possible mini, but I can get a full sized one for the same price used), some cheap totes and cabinets for storage of books/terrain/minis, and a small sofa/love seat in there. The members would pay $20 a month for the use of a key to get into the garage and use the club whenever they wish (since it is my house, I get final say over who gets a key). Snacks and drinks will be in the fridge, with a cash box for deposits in order to fund the snacks and drinks supply. The small sofa was suggested for anybody who wants to bring along their significant other to hang out if they don't game. Email and Facebook would be used to communicate and pass on requests for snacks to purchase. Any extra money from the club will be used to pay for utilities, improvements, and club owned gaming gear for use by members.
A lot of the money will be done on an honor system because this will be set up like a club, not necessarily a business, even though I plan to keep financial records and have them be open for perusal by members of the club.
It worked pretty well in the past and I don't see why it wouldn't now. Besides the Adventurer's Inn locally, there also used to be the Yankee Peddler which started out as a wargame club and grew into a FLGS (incidentally where I bought my first copy of Traveller).
Awesome! You're founding your very own club. I wish you all the success in the world. If there were more people like us, the RPG world would be
dominating right now.
That said, I'm gonna put this out there: you really need to think of this as a "business", not your little hangout spot. I'm sure you're not but there is NO understating this (also, humans have this weird thing where we don't listen to the cold, rational side of brains).
I strongly suggest you taking up the mantle as Head GM. You will very likely be hosting the first ever games your club does. The people who pay membership for your club: they are not your friends. You may become friends through it but most of the people at your club will stay acquaintances at best -- it is inveitable. If you want this club to grow -- and I'm sure you do -- you will need to let in people that you don't know very well. However, the cash buy-in will filter most any trash and leave you with the serious players in your area only. $20 a month is a bit low I'd figure, you should aim to double that, especially IF they have anytime access to the venue.
You'll want to bring on others to volunteer to help run and organize the club. I know I did. It's a mixed bag. These guys will likely be those you already know or be drawn from the first set of members you recruit. You'll want to eventually have a deputy GM who can run that second table for you. Consider an Admin to organize games, handle payments, liase with members, handle gear purchases and manage advertising online. When you get big enough, you might split that role into an Admin AND a Community Manager.
If members can have access any time, you should consider deputizing anyone with a key. Not everyone needs a key -- plus it helps with security. You'll probably want to get some cheap cameras to install interior/exterior. Also, consider what kind of games you'll want to allow and if its RPG-exclusive or even exclusive to one RPG series (WOD, COC, SWRPG, D&D et al.).
This is exciting dude! I've got more advice and suggestions from my own years doing the club thing but that'll be it for this evening from me.
Quote from: jeff37923;1053080OK, well I'm not doing the convention anymore. The organizer called me on the phone and informed me that the ten tables I was told I'd have are now going to be used by the local chapter of the Adventurer's League. I'd get to use a set of three tables away from the main gaming area, in another section of the convention. This just became too much of a headache to want to deal with. So I told the organizer goodbye.
I'm tired of this bullshit. The Organized Play fuck-o's want their shit to be the only public game in town and they can have it. I'm buying a house and going to direct my efforts to things that are more rewarding for me personally like home games and writing. Everything else, I am putting on hold.
I've hesitated to respond to this for several reasons; besides our political disagreements in the RPGPundit Forum, I play in Adventurers League.
I am sorry that the AL organizers in your area are jerks; at the last convention I volunteered at with AL for our local group, the organizer went on and on in praising the volunteer DMs for the positive feedback we got, and we must have looked confused about why it deserved so much mention because he added, "Yeah, that's not always the case." So some of the positive feedback seems to have been "we were happy that you guys weren't jerks like they were at another convention I went to".
I am also sorry that gaming conventions will lose your efforts; I believe you had posted in the past about running games for charity. Consider local gaming stores that have space to play, as they typically do not want one game to take over, because variety will get them more business.
[/HR]
The current changes for the next AL season threaten to put me off; the XP rules (that are mentioned in the append of Xanathar's Guide to Everything) are OK (essentially, one hour scheduled is worth 1/4 or 1/8th of the XP to the next level) but there's a wealth-by-level thing that threatens to make it pointless. And maybe an implication that adventures won't be allowed to be risky. I've played in AL as much because I like 5e, it's easier to find a game, I get to connect with friends who also play, and it's nostalgia for the late 70s when we had a sprawling multiverse of DM worlds you could freely move among. I've already shifted from playing at one game store to a common room at someone's apartment building, although we're still AL there for the present.
I would note that AL groups tend to want more and more tables at conventions because the organizers want to run the big events (epics and opens) where it's more fun if there are a lot more tables for the sprawling event, but maybe more because they might get the chance to create their own content or other perks if they are seen as having a lot of participation. I do think they should get their space at remote parts of the convention for that kind of thing, since it's typically aimed at people who are specifically looking for them - the intro games of all sorts and a variety of games should be front and center at every convention.
Quote from: jeff37923;1053449Well, I had my Business Advisor come by and take a look at the space and I threw the idea by her. The basics are that we fix up the garage to be a habitable space (insulation, drywall, a half-bathroom, window mount A/C unit), place a couple of tables with six chairs each, a microwave oven, a fridge (possible mini, but I can get a full sized one for the same price used), some cheap totes and cabinets for storage of books/terrain/minis, and a small sofa/love seat in there. The members would pay $20 a month for the use of a key to get into the garage and use the club whenever they wish (since it is my house, I get final say over who gets a key). Snacks and drinks will be in the fridge, with a cash box for deposits in order to fund the snacks and drinks supply. The small sofa was suggested for anybody who wants to bring along their significant other to hang out if they don't game. Email and Facebook would be used to communicate and pass on requests for snacks to purchase. Any extra money from the club will be used to pay for utilities, improvements, and club owned gaming gear for use by members.
A lot of the money will be done on an honor system because this will be set up like a club, not necessarily a business, even though I plan to keep financial records and have them be open for perusal by members of the club.
It worked pretty well in the past and I don't see why it wouldn't now. Besides the Adventurer's Inn locally, there also used to be the Yankee Peddler which started out as a wargame club and grew into a FLGS (incidentally where I bought my first copy of Traveller).
Does it speak well of me that the first idea passing through my head was LARPing Hallmark Channel Mysteries, like a Detective's Club of nosy suburbanites messing with cold cases and getting in danger? :o
Then we can all dress up, invade private spaces, and pretend we are solving cases. Whoever gets locked up last is a rotten egg! :)
Quote from: rawma;1053546I've hesitated to respond to this for several reasons; besides our political disagreements in the RPGPundit Forum, I play in Adventurers League.
Whatever our political disagreements are, and I know I can be an asshole about them, and your involvement in the Adventurer's League - I do not hold that against you personally. The AL is composed of a lot of people and I do not think that the jackass I have to deal with is representative of them all.
Quote from: rawma;1053546I am sorry that the AL organizers in your area are jerks; at the last convention I volunteered at with AL for our local group, the organizer went on and on in praising the volunteer DMs for the positive feedback we got, and we must have looked confused about why it deserved so much mention because he added, "Yeah, that's not always the case." So some of the positive feedback seems to have been "we were happy that you guys weren't jerks like they were at another convention I went to".
I am also sorry that gaming conventions will lose your efforts; I believe you had posted in the past about running games for charity. Consider local gaming stores that have space to play, as they typically do not want one game to take over, because variety will get them more business.
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The current changes for the next AL season threaten to put me off; the XP rules (that are mentioned in the append of Xanathar's Guide to Everything) are OK (essentially, one hour scheduled is worth 1/4 or 1/8th of the XP to the next level) but there's a wealth-by-level thing that threatens to make it pointless. And maybe an implication that adventures won't be allowed to be risky. I've played in AL as much because I like 5e, it's easier to find a game, I get to connect with friends who also play, and it's nostalgia for the late 70s when we had a sprawling multiverse of DM worlds you could freely move among. I've already shifted from playing at one game store to a common room at someone's apartment building, although we're still AL there for the present.
I would note that AL groups tend to want more and more tables at conventions because the organizers want to run the big events (epics and opens) where it's more fun if there are a lot more tables for the sprawling event, but maybe more because they might get the chance to create their own content or other perks if they are seen as having a lot of participation. I do think they should get their space at remote parts of the convention for that kind of thing, since it's typically aimed at people who are specifically looking for them - the intro games of all sorts and a variety of games should be front and center at every convention.
I think that organized play has a lot of potential, but a lot of times I wonder if it will be realized. It all comes down to the people. Every time.
EDIT: Hypothetical - Let's say that I wanted to run AL games at the club. Would I have to work through WotC's local representative and regional coordinator or could I just go through WotC directly. I'm thinking that if I can just avoid the schmuck, then I won't have to deal with the BS.
Quote from: Opaopajr;1053549Does it speak well of me that the first idea passing through my head was LARPing Hallmark Channel Mysteries, like a Detective's Club of nosy suburbanites messing with cold cases and getting in danger? :o
Then we can all dress up, invade private spaces, and pretend we are solving cases. Whoever gets locked up last is a rotten egg! :)
I hadn't thought of LARPing with that space, but now I am.
Jeff, I suggest leaving AL to AL, especially in your zone. There are other Org Play options (Shadowrun, 13th Age, DCC, etc) that might risk less drama.
BTW, here's an idea our crew wanted to do but sadly scheduling dorked us. Since 5e is effectively 2e compatible, you can use all the Living City modules (many which are quite good) in a home 5e "org play" and the DMs will have a very easy time converting. Of course, there's also a fuckton of DM Guild adventures so creating your own Jeffworld 5e League would be easy, and WotC and its clowns gets avoided entirely.
Quote from: jeff37923;1053550I think that organized play has a lot of potential, but a lot of times I wonder if it will be realized. It all comes down to the people. Every time.
Org Play becomes great with the right people, but inevitably the company's bureaucracy and the fucking asshole segment of the player base wears down the volunteers.
Unfortunately, my quote about Org Play being an asshole magnet comes from significant experience.
Quote from: rawma;1053546So some of the positive feedback seems to have been "we were happy that you guys weren't jerks like they were at another convention I went to".
That doesn't surprise me at all. Stupid conventions fuck attendees over by not managing the quality of their volunteer GMs.
I was RPGA DM from the TSR era (and watched that cool org sadly go to shit) and I was recruited into the 4e LFR by good friends expressly to help turn around DM issues. Getting and keeping good volunteers is extremely hard, especially because TSR/WotC/Paizo bureaucracy combined with asshole entitled players wears volunteers down.
Kudos to your crew for getting those compliments. The players mean it.
Quote from: jeff37923;1053550I think that organized play has a lot of potential, but a lot of times I wonder if it will be realized. It all comes down to the people. Every time.
Short of turning it into a solo computer game, I can't see how people could be prevented from ruining any game. But since I couldn't tell you the goals of organized play beyond vague platitudes I guess I'm not surprised it hasn't realized its potential.
QuoteEDIT: Hypothetical - Let's say that I wanted to run AL games at the club. Would I have to work through WotC's local representative and regional coordinator or could I just go through WotC directly. I'm thinking that if I can just avoid the schmuck, then I won't have to deal with the BS.
I really don't know what it's going to be with the start of the new season (next month). I played in the 2018 Open (Gangs of Waterdeep), which was a lot of roleplaying (pregen characters with a lot of background and relationships in the setting, who are shady but not murderhobos; very few fights resulted, by design); this was said to be a preview for one of the campaign settings for the new season, and that could be a positive direction. But with the other changes, somebody at the last con guessed that they were intentionally ruining it in part to cater to beginners more and in part to set up release of the sixth edition; I'm not yet willing to buy that theory, but maybe.
A year ago I would have said it's easy to run AL on your own; you have to use point buy (so you can't start off above +3 in any ability score), and the standard amount of hit points at each level advance rather than rolling, and mostly the character options in the PHB plus one of the other source books (so for example if you play a monster race from Volo's you can't also use the spells from the Princes of the Apocalypse appendix), and there are certain things ruled out (no aarakocra or tieflings with functional wings - a flying speed at 1st level is judged too powerful; no DMG options like Death Clerics), and various rules on crafting and training (downtime and gold being currency for such, but no making magic items beyond a healing potion). And players are not allowed to mess with each other; no PvP and cooperate with the other players. Each season there are PDFs with the various restrictions, downloadable free at the DMs Guild site; faction guide, players guide, FAQ, etc. So you shouldn't need any organizer/contact.
And then you could run the starter set or any of the campaign books (I think; maybe only the most current one, but we discussed finishing ones we didn't get through) (but only award treasure that is actually in a block labeled "Treasure") or any of the modules you can buy at the DMs Guild website; characters have to be within the stated level range. There are the weird season specific rules - if your character is in Barovia that character can only play in Barovia until they get out (some of the modules gave ways to get out short of defeating Strahd) or if you're playing in the Tomb of Annihilation season below 11th level then the Death Curse applies (no returning from the dead; characters previously raised waste away as the Death Curse continues, etc). (An advantage of connecting with other people is to share the cost of modules; until they get a better quality of editing, they're generally overpriced.) And the DM and players should have DCI numbers if you intend to take the characters somewhere (in theory they might look at your log sheets but I don't think anyone ever has). And the standard five factions were somewhat significant in the adventure hooks and for various bonuses (e.g., faction members with enough renown and a secret mission could buy magic items with downtime and money) - that's apparently going away. You could do all that on your own and whatever else you like, but if you stuck to AL you could jump into AL games at a convention or game store with the same character, and it's easier to find players if your group dwindles (as I think is true if you play closer to the standard rules of any other popular game).
It's late and I've probably forgotten or misrepresented something about it; apologies if so, and please point it out.
What's it going to be like? I've mostly concentrated my game time on playing in order to finish the Tomb of Annihilation, and almost all the info I have is second hand from people I've played with. So ask me again in a couple of months. If I'm still playing AL, I'll tell you about what it turned into, and if I'm not I'll tell you what put me off.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1053564Jeff, I suggest leaving AL to AL, especially in your zone.
Org Play becomes great with the right people, but inevitably the company's bureaucracy and the fucking asshole segment of the player base wears down the volunteers.
Unfortunately, my quote about Org Play being an asshole magnet comes from significant experience.
I'm just brainstorming, but I'll take your advice. I hate the way that I have been treated and just would like to provide an alternative for local gamers.
Quote from: jeff37923;1053080OK, well I'm not doing the convention anymore. The organizer called me on the phone and informed me that the ten tables I was told I'd have are now going to be used by the local chapter of the Adventurer's League. I'd get to use a set of three tables away from the main gaming area, in another section of the convention. This just became too much of a headache to want to deal with. So I told the organizer goodbye.
I'm tired of this bullshit. The Organized Play fuck-o's want their shit to be the only public game in town and they can have it. I'm buying a house and going to direct my efforts to things that are more rewarding for me personally like home games and writing. Everything else, I am putting on hold.
Any chance it was politically motivated?
Quote from: RPGPundit;1053982Any chance it was politically motivated?
I don't know, but I sure wouldn't doubt it.
Jeff, I'm sorry to hear you were treated like this. I applaud your efforts for starting a game club! I have been a member of Metro Seattle Gamers off and on over the years, and it's a great way to play games. I will come back when I'm done with Dragonflight and offer some ideas/experiences from the game club perspective.
Quote from: jeff37923;1053080OK, well I'm not doing the convention anymore. The organizer called me on the phone and informed me that the ten tables I was told I'd have are now going to be used by the local chapter of the Adventurer's League. I'd get to use a set of three tables away from the main gaming area, in another section of the convention. This just became too much of a headache to want to deal with. So I told the organizer goodbye.
I'm tired of this bullshit. The Organized Play fuck-o's want their shit to be the only public game in town and they can have it. I'm buying a house and going to direct my efforts to things that are more rewarding for me personally like home games and writing. Everything else, I am putting on hold.
My public event was sabotaged by the organized play mob. I just found out the yanked all of my promotional stuff from the local game shops.
Why would they do that?
I am confused how or why your public event threatened them.
Quote from: dungeon crawler;1054108My public event was sabotaged by the organized play mob. I just found out the yanked all of my promotional stuff from the local game shops.
Whoah, what?
Quote from: dungeon crawler;1054108My public event was sabotaged by the organized play mob. I just found out the yanked all of my promotional stuff from the local game shops.
Yeah, that has been done to me in the past as well. Organized Play is just the unpaid advertising arm of the parent game company that gang is beholden to. This may be going overboard, but they too often act like low rent Antifa acting for a specific game line, identity politics run amuck.
Well, that totally sucks. It's a pity you don't actually have proof it was political, because then at least you could cause a scandal.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1054339Well, that totally sucks. It's a pity you don't actually have proof it was political, because then at least you could cause a scandal.
Even if I did have proof, I wouldn't want to cause a scandal because it does not serve my purposes.
The goal I have is to spread the word about TTRPGs and get more people (both new and lapsed players) enthusiastically involved with the hobby. A scandal would create publicity, but not necessarily the kind that would attract potential players. I want to concentrate on gaming and not so much this culture war, even though I am in the middle of it whether I want to be or not.
Then there is Save vs Hunger. The shits that I have sabotaging me are also the driving forces behind that charitable event. While I wish to see their social justice crap bite them in the ass and leave nothing but bloody chunks, the charity they have created does good work that helps people and does not deserve my ire for being treated poorly by its creators.
So no, a scandal would be nothing but counter-productive in my view.
Quote from: jeff37923;1054350Even if I did have proof, I wouldn't want to cause a scandal because it does not serve my purposes.
The goal I have is to spread the word about TTRPGs and get more people (both new and lapsed players) enthusiastically involved with the hobby. A scandal would create publicity, but not necessarily the kind that would attract potential players. I want to concentrate on gaming and not so much this culture war, even though I am in the middle of it whether I want to be or not.
Then there is Save vs Hunger. The shits that I have sabotaging me are also the driving forces behind that charitable event. While I wish to see their social justice crap bite them in the ass and leave nothing but bloody chunks, the charity they have created does good work that helps people and does not deserve my ire for being treated poorly by its creators.
So no, a scandal would be nothing but counter-productive in my view.
Well, that's noble about you. If the people running Save vs. Hunger are really SJW types, though, is there enough transparency in their operation to be sure that they're on the up and up, and aren't engaged in corruption?
Quote from: RPGPundit;1054954Well, that's noble about you.
Thank you.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1054954If the people running Save vs. Hunger are really SJW types, though, is there enough transparency in their operation to be sure that they're on the up and up, and aren't engaged in corruption?
I couldn't tell you. Honestly, after being screwed three times in a row, I've made every effort to distance myself from them and their charity. I want nothing to do with them.
Quote from: dungeon crawler;1054108My public event was sabotaged by the organized play mob. I just found out the yanked all of my promotional stuff from the local game shops.
1) Was this DDAL or some other organized play group?
2) DDAL has some pretty strict rules on inclusivity, which you may or may not want to subscribe to - but that shouldn't have any bearing on you doing your own independent (non-DDAL) thing at a wider convention
3) If DDAL members are sabotaging a legitimate parallel event,
in the name of DDAL, it certainly sounds like something that should be escalated up their chain of command
the above said....
This (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?39385-Gencon-2018-filled-with-Nazi-s&p=1052770&viewfull=1#post1052770)doesn't really scan, getting thrown out of multiple conventions for not denouncing Trump or a particular religious faith? Sounds more like local interpersonal drama to me.
Quote from: Motorskills;10550311) Was this DDAL or some other organized play group?
2) DDAL has some pretty strict rules on inclusivity, which you may or may not want to subscribe to - but that shouldn't have any bearing on you doing your own independent (non-DDAL) thing at a wider convention
3) If DDAL members are sabotaging a legitimate parallel event, in the name of DDAL, it certainly sounds like something that should be escalated up their chain of command.
the above said....
This (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?39385-Gencon-2018-filled-with-Nazi-s&p=1052770&viewfull=1#post1052770)doesn't really scan, getting thrown out of multiple conventions for not denouncing Trump or a particular religious faith? Sounds more like local interpersonal drama to me.
Well that is some backhanded bullshit from the peanut gallery.
"What you describe is horrible and shitty! But since it is besmirching the honor of some Crusaders of Inclusivity, we must throw the shade of doubt upon the anecdote and its originator."
Go fuck yourself, Motorskills. Or at the very least, pull your head out of your ass.
Almost ALL the Org Play bullshit I've seen over the years was due to "local interpersonal drama" AKA, whenever a petty shitbag gets the top volunteer gig and then acts like they've had a 12th century coronation.
They tend to implode their local scene because Org Play is all about volunteer DMs and pissed off DMs just stop showing. And lo and behold, good DMs tend to bail first which snowballs to good players leaving which then leaves the weak DMs and weak players who attend religiously because they have nowhere else that wants them, but that is disastrous for recruitment. I've watched that dance repeatedly in LA over the decades.
Sometimes, reporting the Petty Princes to the Regional Monkey can help...if they haven't been making their numbers. BUT usually the Regionals are just thankful to have any volunteers to take the workload off them. AKA, if they chastise the Petty Prince, the Regional might lose them and have to take over their workload. Petty Princes volunteer their hours in exchange for control of their fiefdoms, fuck with that control and they meltdown and stomp off.
When you have your own private club, you should launch your club's charity "Dice 4 Food" mini-con and donate to the local food bank. Or whatever charity you like to support.
Fuck WotC. Fuck Paizo. Fuck WW. Support publishers who deserve your support.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1055040Almost ALL the Org Play bullshit I've seen over the years was due to "local interpersonal drama" AKA, whenever a petty shitbag gets the top volunteer gig and then acts like they've had a 12th century coronation.
They tend to implode their local scene because Org Play is all about volunteer DMs and pissed off DMs just stop showing. And lo and behold, good DMs tend to bail first which snowballs to good players leaving which then leaves the weak DMs and weak players who attend religiously because they have nowhere else that wants them, but that is disastrous for recruitment. I've watched that dance repeatedly in LA over the decades.
Sometimes, reporting the Petty Princes to the Regional Monkey can help...if they haven't been making their numbers. BUT usually the Regionals are just thankful to have any volunteers to take the workload off them. AKA, if they chastise the Petty Prince, the Regional might lose them and have to take over their workload. Petty Princes volunteer their hours in exchange for control of their fiefdoms, fuck with that control and they meltdown and stomp off.
When you have your own private club, you should launch your club's charity "Dice 4 Food" mini-con and donate to the local food bank. Or whatever charity you like to support.
Fuck WotC. Fuck Paizo. Fuck WW. Support publishers who deserve your support.
That's true, but there's a scale of DDAL activities - home games, store games, small conventions, large conventions. Meltdowns at home games and store games, well that's nothing new.
Getting thrown out of multiple conventions? That's certainly something different.
It doesn't explain what happened with the removal of stuff from the local stores. Was the stuff stolen (including someone misrepresenting themselves to the store owners), or did someone make a successful pitch to the store owners not to carry the advertisements?
If the former, that certainly sounds reportable, if the latter, must have been pretty strong stuff.
Quote from: Motorskills;1055060Getting thrown out of multiple conventions? That's certainly something different.
I don't recall armchair gamer ever saying that he was thrown out of multiple conventions. I'm wondering why you did not confront him about his story in the thread where he made the claim and have instead decided to disrupt this thread by bringing it up here.
Please though, don't let this stop your ongoing melodramatic disruption. It is so quintessentially pathetic that it could only have been authored by you.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1055040Fuck WotC. Fuck Paizo. Fuck WW. Support publishers who deserve your support.
Damn right.