Quote from: Opaopajr;1053549Does it speak well of me that the first idea passing through my head was LARPing Hallmark Channel Mysteries, like a Detective's Club of nosy suburbanites messing with cold cases and getting in danger?

Then we can all dress up, invade private spaces, and pretend we are solving cases. Whoever gets locked up last is a rotten egg!

I hadn't thought of LARPing with that space, but now I am.

Jeff, I suggest leaving AL to AL, especially in your zone. There are other Org Play options (Shadowrun, 13th Age, DCC, etc) that might risk less drama.

BTW, here's an idea our crew wanted to do but sadly scheduling dorked us. Since 5e is effectively 2e compatible, you can use all the Living City modules (many which are quite good) in a home 5e "org play" and the DMs will have a very easy time converting. Of course, there's also a fuckton of DM Guild adventures so creating your own Jeffworld 5e League would be easy, and WotC and its clowns gets avoided entirely.

Quote from: jeff37923;1053550I think that organized play has a lot of potential, but a lot of times I wonder if it will be realized. It all comes down to the people. Every time.

Org Play becomes great with the right people, but inevitably the company's bureaucracy and the fucking asshole segment of the player base wears down the volunteers.

Unfortunately, my quote about Org Play being an asshole magnet comes from significant experience.

Quote from: rawma;1053546So some of the positive feedback seems to have been "we were happy that you guys weren't jerks like they were at another convention I went to".

That doesn't surprise me at all. Stupid conventions fuck attendees over by not managing the quality of their volunteer GMs.

I was RPGA DM from the TSR era (and watched that cool org sadly go to shit) and I was recruited into the 4e LFR by good friends expressly to help turn around DM issues. Getting and keeping good volunteers is extremely hard, especially because TSR/WotC/Paizo bureaucracy combined with asshole entitled players wears volunteers down.

Kudos to your crew for getting those compliments. The players mean it.

Quote from: jeff37923;1053550I think that organized play has a lot of potential, but a lot of times I wonder if it will be realized. It all comes down to the people. Every time.

Short of turning it into a solo computer game, I can't see how people could be prevented from ruining any game. But since I couldn't tell you the goals of organized play beyond vague platitudes I guess I'm not surprised it hasn't realized its potential.

QuoteEDIT: Hypothetical - Let's say that I wanted to run AL games at the club. Would I have to work through WotC's local representative and regional coordinator or could I just go through WotC directly. I'm thinking that if I can just avoid the schmuck, then I won't have to deal with the BS.

I really don't know what it's going to be with the start of the new season (next month). I played in the 2018 Open (Gangs of Waterdeep), which was a lot of roleplaying (pregen characters with a lot of background and relationships in the setting, who are shady but not murderhobos; very few fights resulted, by design); this was said to be a preview for one of the campaign settings for the new season, and that could be a positive direction. But with the other changes, somebody at the last con guessed that they were intentionally ruining it in part to cater to beginners more and in part to set up release of the sixth edition; I'm not yet willing to buy that theory, but maybe.

A year ago I would have said it's easy to run AL on your own; you have to use point buy (so you can't start off above +3 in any ability score), and the standard amount of hit points at each level advance rather than rolling, and mostly the character options in the PHB plus one of the other source books (so for example if you play a monster race from Volo's you can't also use the spells from the Princes of the Apocalypse appendix), and there are certain things ruled out (no aarakocra or tieflings with functional wings - a flying speed at 1st level is judged too powerful; no DMG options like Death Clerics), and various rules on crafting and training (downtime and gold being currency for such, but no making magic items beyond a healing potion). And players are not allowed to mess with each other; no PvP and cooperate with the other players. Each season there are PDFs with the various restrictions, downloadable free at the DMs Guild site; faction guide, players guide, FAQ, etc. So you shouldn't need any organizer/contact.

And then you could run the starter set or any of the campaign books (I think; maybe only the most current one, but we discussed finishing ones we didn't get through) (but only award treasure that is actually in a block labeled "Treasure") or any of the modules you can buy at the DMs Guild website; characters have to be within the stated level range. There are the weird season specific rules - if your character is in Barovia that character can only play in Barovia until they get out (some of the modules gave ways to get out short of defeating Strahd) or if you're playing in the Tomb of Annihilation season below 11th level then the Death Curse applies (no returning from the dead; characters previously raised waste away as the Death Curse continues, etc). (An advantage of connecting with other people is to share the cost of modules; until they get a better quality of editing, they're generally overpriced.) And the DM and players should have DCI numbers if you intend to take the characters somewhere (in theory they might look at your log sheets but I don't think anyone ever has). And the standard five factions were somewhat significant in the adventure hooks and for various bonuses (e.g., faction members with enough renown and a secret mission could buy magic items with downtime and money) - that's apparently going away. You could do all that on your own and whatever else you like, but if you stuck to AL you could jump into AL games at a convention or game store with the same character, and it's easier to find players if your group dwindles (as I think is true if you play closer to the standard rules of any other popular game).

It's late and I've probably forgotten or misrepresented something about it; apologies if so, and please point it out.

What's it going to be like? I've mostly concentrated my game time on playing in order to finish the Tomb of Annihilation, and almost all the info I have is second hand from people I've played with. So ask me again in a couple of months. If I'm still playing AL, I'll tell you about what it turned into, and if I'm not I'll tell you what put me off.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1053564Jeff, I suggest leaving AL to AL, especially in your zone.

Org Play becomes great with the right people, but inevitably the company's bureaucracy and the fucking asshole segment of the player base wears down the volunteers.

Unfortunately, my quote about Org Play being an asshole magnet comes from significant experience.

I'm just brainstorming, but I'll take your advice. I hate the way that I have been treated and just would like to provide an alternative for local gamers.

Quote from: jeff37923;1053080OK, well I'm not doing the convention anymore. The organizer called me on the phone and informed me that the ten tables I was told I'd have are now going to be used by the local chapter of the Adventurer's League. I'd get to use a set of three tables away from the main gaming area, in another section of the convention. This just became too much of a headache to want to deal with. So I told the organizer goodbye.

I'm tired of this bullshit. The Organized Play fuck-o's want their shit to be the only public game in town and they can have it. I'm buying a house and going to direct my efforts to things that are more rewarding for me personally like home games and writing. Everything else, I am putting on hold.

Any chance it was politically motivated?

Quote from: RPGPundit;1053982Any chance it was politically motivated?

I don't know, but I sure wouldn't doubt it.

Jeff, I'm sorry to hear you were treated like this. I applaud your efforts for starting a game club!  I have been a member of Metro Seattle Gamers off and on over the years, and it's a great way to play games. I will come back when I'm done with Dragonflight and offer some ideas/experiences from the game club perspective.

Quote from: jeff37923;1053080OK, well I'm not doing the convention anymore. The organizer called me on the phone and informed me that the ten tables I was told I'd have are now going to be used by the local chapter of the Adventurer's League. I'd get to use a set of three tables away from the main gaming area, in another section of the convention. This just became too much of a headache to want to deal with. So I told the organizer goodbye.

I'm tired of this bullshit. The Organized Play fuck-o's want their shit to be the only public game in town and they can have it. I'm buying a house and going to direct my efforts to things that are more rewarding for me personally like home games and writing. Everything else, I am putting on hold.

My public event was sabotaged by the organized play mob. I just found out the yanked all of my promotional stuff from the local game shops.

Why would they do that?

I am confused how or why your public event threatened them.

Quote from: dungeon crawler;1054108My public event was sabotaged by the organized play mob. I just found out the yanked all of my promotional stuff from the local game shops.

Whoah, what?

Quote from: dungeon crawler;1054108My public event was sabotaged by the organized play mob. I just found out the yanked all of my promotional stuff from the local game shops.

Yeah, that has been done to me in the past as well. Organized Play is just the unpaid advertising arm of the parent game company that gang is beholden to. This may be going overboard, but they too often act like low rent Antifa acting for a specific game line, identity politics run amuck.

Well, that totally sucks. It's a pity you don't actually have proof it was political, because then at least you could cause a scandal.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1054339Well, that totally sucks. It's a pity you don't actually have proof it was political, because then at least you could cause a scandal.

Even if I did have proof, I wouldn't want to cause a scandal because it does not serve my purposes.

The goal I have is to spread the word about TTRPGs and get more people (both new and lapsed players) enthusiastically involved with the hobby. A scandal would create publicity, but not necessarily the kind that would attract potential players. I want to concentrate on gaming and not so much this culture war, even though I am in the middle of it whether I want to be or not.

Then there is Save vs Hunger. The shits that I have sabotaging me are also the driving forces behind that charitable event. While I wish to see their social justice crap bite them in the ass and leave nothing but bloody chunks, the charity they have created does good work that helps people and does not deserve my ire for being treated poorly by its creators.

So no, a scandal would be nothing but counter-productive in my view.

Quote from: jeff37923;1054350Even if I did have proof, I wouldn't want to cause a scandal because it does not serve my purposes.

The goal I have is to spread the word about TTRPGs and get more people (both new and lapsed players) enthusiastically involved with the hobby. A scandal would create publicity, but not necessarily the kind that would attract potential players. I want to concentrate on gaming and not so much this culture war, even though I am in the middle of it whether I want to be or not.

Then there is Save vs Hunger. The shits that I have sabotaging me are also the driving forces behind that charitable event. While I wish to see their social justice crap bite them in the ass and leave nothing but bloody chunks, the charity they have created does good work that helps people and does not deserve my ire for being treated poorly by its creators.

So no, a scandal would be nothing but counter-productive in my view.

Well, that's noble about you. If the people running Save vs. Hunger are really SJW types, though, is there enough transparency in their operation to be sure that they're on the up and up, and aren't engaged in corruption?

Quote from: RPGPundit;1054954Well, that's noble about you.

Thank you.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1054954If the people running Save vs. Hunger are really SJW types, though, is there enough transparency in their operation to be sure that they're on the up and up, and aren't engaged in corruption?

I couldn't tell you. Honestly, after being screwed three times in a row, I've made every effort to distance myself from them and their charity. I want nothing to do with them.