Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1053087So what was the situation with these guys? How long's it been going on?

I'm at odds with the local leaders of the Adventurer's League, and one of them is close friends of the owner of a local bar who is loaning arcade style videogames to the convention and my table space was part of the deal AFAIK. It is a start-up gaming convention and I should have seen this coming because the local AL are fans of social justice who have crapped on public play projects of mine in the past.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1053089That sucks, but you also dodged a potential bullet. If the organizers didn't see the value you were bringing, chances are there would have been a snafu closer to the con (or at the con) after you did even more work. I wonder if AL will be able to fill those tables. Your concept of horror themed games for a horror con make a fuckton more sense.

I really don't understand why the con would want to separate gaming spaces. I wonder if that was an AL request as well. And yes, Organized Play is VERY territorial, and an incestuous little freak club best avoided. You've got my quote in your sig and I absolutely stand by that.

I hope you continue GEEK because I believe a non-AL gaming Meetup has strong potential.

Good luck with home buying. Location is key 'cuz you can always tear down and rebuild a shack into a McMansion!

Thanks, but the first thing I must do is buy the house. The closing happens in just under three hours from now.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1053100I wish I could buy a house in response to my headaches...

Oh, wait. That is tangential, isn't it? Congratulations!

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1053087Think you'll do con or a club independently?

When I first moved back to Knoxville, there was no dedicated gaming space in any of the FLGS's so a few married guys got together and pooled their spare cash, rented an office space, and opened up a game club known as the Adventurer's Inn. That was over 20 years ago and closed when one partner had to sell his share in order to raise money for cancer treatments.

I'm going to have a 308 sq foot (14' x 22') unattached garage with power going to it to use for whatever I want. I was originally planning a workshop, but that may change. I'm looking into the cost of installing a 1/2 bathroom in there. Might be time for a new Adventurer's Inn.

I will still have almost 1000 sq feet in the main house to do with however I wish.

I'm rethinking how I have GEEK set up and want to reorganize how I did it, with the lessons I've learned in mind. I may let it remain fallow and I may not, still a lot of thinking to do on that one. Although there is a public library branch within walking distance of the house.

Quote from: jeff37923;1053104I'm going to have a 308 sq foot (14' x 22') unattached garage with power going to it to use for whatever I want.

I'd be concerned about liability issues if someone "hurts themselves" on your property.

It sounds like the Adventurer's Inn was commercially zoned, as you referred to rented office space. If so, they probably carried cheap biz insurance.

And we live in FAR more litigious times and it sounds like you have a bit of a target on your back.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1053288I'd be concerned about liability issues if someone "hurts themselves" on your property.

It sounds like the Adventurer's Inn was commercially zoned, as you referred to rented office space. If so, they probably carried cheap biz insurance.

And we live in FAR more litigious times and it sounds like you have a bit of a target on your back.

True. I'm considering all of that. The key is to have it be a members only private club, that way I have a lot more control over who has access.

I'm hopeful. And in the words of Cassian Andor, "Rebellions are built on hope."

Everyone must wear Members Only jackets!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1053319Everyone must wear Members Only jackets!

T-shirts are cheaper.

This sounds like the sjw league is starting a world of suck in your area. They did that in my city and I dumped them and all organized play like a rabid skunk. I run games on my own time and according to my players taste. AL can keep the sjw stuff.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1053319Everyone must wear Members Only jackets!

Yes! :cool: But only for eight months. Then we will all look back and laugh, yet pretend we were never caught up in it ourselves.

Quote from: jeff37923;1053321T-shirts are cheaper.

True... but how long will those (regretful) memories last? Members Only jackets are better, (at least for those first year early adopters).

Why haven't tabards come back in style! With all the fantasy fandom in the mainstream, I would expected some medieval fashion revival by now!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1053379Why haven't tabards come back in style! With all the fantasy fandom in the mainstream, I would expected some medieval fashion revival by now!

They'll get caught up in the millenials' bicycle chains, is why. (I keeed! I keeed cuz I luuuv! )

If Millennials brought capes back into fashion, it would forgive a multitude of sins.

Jeff, tell us about how a GEEK members only club would work. Even if its just off the cuff brainstorming and thoughts from your previous experiences.

As for T-shirts, you can get those all-over, wrap-around designs at surprisingly good prices these days.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1053446If Millennials brought capes back into fashion, it would forgive a multitude of sins.

Jeff, tell us about how a GEEK members only club would work. Even if its just off the cuff brainstorming and thoughts from your previous experiences.

As for T-shirts, you can get those all-over, wrap-around designs at surprisingly good prices these days.

Well, I had my Business Advisor come by and take a look at the space and I threw the idea by her. The basics are that we fix up the garage to be a habitable space (insulation, drywall, a half-bathroom, window mount A/C unit), place a couple of tables with six chairs each, a microwave oven, a fridge (possible mini, but I can get a full sized one for the same price used), some cheap totes and cabinets for storage of books/terrain/minis, and a small sofa/love seat in there. The members would pay $20 a month for the use of a key to get into the garage and use the club whenever they wish (since it is my house, I get final say over who gets a key). Snacks and drinks will be in the fridge, with a cash box for deposits in order to fund the snacks and drinks supply. The small sofa was suggested for anybody who wants to bring along their significant other to hang out if they don't game. Email and Facebook would be used to communicate and pass on requests for snacks to purchase. Any extra money from the club will be used to pay for utilities, improvements, and club owned gaming gear for use by members.

A lot of the money will be done on an honor system because this will be set up like a club, not necessarily a business, even though I plan to keep financial records and have them be open for perusal by members of the club.

It worked pretty well in the past and I don't see why it wouldn't now. Besides the Adventurer's Inn locally, there also used to be the Yankee Peddler which started out as a wargame club and grew into a FLGS (incidentally where I bought my first copy of Traveller).

Quote from: jeff37923;1053449Well, I had my Business Advisor come by and take a look at the space and I threw the idea by her. The basics are that we fix up the garage to be a habitable space (insulation, drywall, a half-bathroom, window mount A/C unit), place a couple of tables with six chairs each, a microwave oven, a fridge (possible mini, but I can get a full sized one for the same price used), some cheap totes and cabinets for storage of books/terrain/minis, and a small sofa/love seat in there. The members would pay $20 a month for the use of a key to get into the garage and use the club whenever they wish (since it is my house, I get final say over who gets a key). Snacks and drinks will be in the fridge, with a cash box for deposits in order to fund the snacks and drinks supply. The small sofa was suggested for anybody who wants to bring along their significant other to hang out if they don't game. Email and Facebook would be used to communicate and pass on requests for snacks to purchase. Any extra money from the club will be used to pay for utilities, improvements, and club owned gaming gear for use by members.

A lot of the money will be done on an honor system because this will be set up like a club, not necessarily a business, even though I plan to keep financial records and have them be open for perusal by members of the club.

It worked pretty well in the past and I don't see why it wouldn't now. Besides the Adventurer's Inn locally, there also used to be the Yankee Peddler which started out as a wargame club and grew into a FLGS (incidentally where I bought my first copy of Traveller).

Awesome! You're founding your very own club. I wish you all the success in the world. If there were more people like us, the RPG world would be dominating right now.

That said, I'm gonna put this out there: you really need to think of this as a "business", not your little hangout spot. I'm sure you're not but there is NO understating this (also, humans have this weird thing where we don't listen to the cold, rational side of brains).

I strongly suggest you taking up the mantle as Head GM. You will very likely be hosting the first ever games your club does. The people who pay membership for your club: they are not your friends. You may become friends through it but most of the people at your club will stay acquaintances at best -- it is inveitable. If you want this club to grow -- and I'm sure you do -- you will need to let in people that you don't know very well. However, the cash buy-in will filter most any trash and leave you with the serious players in your area only. $20 a month is a bit low I'd figure, you should aim to double that, especially IF they have anytime access to the venue.

You'll want to bring on others to volunteer to help run and organize the club. I know I did. It's a mixed bag. These guys will likely be those you already know or be drawn from the first set of members you recruit. You'll want to eventually have a deputy GM who can run that second table for you. Consider an Admin to organize games, handle payments, liase with members, handle gear purchases and manage advertising online. When you get big enough, you might split that role into an Admin AND a Community Manager.

If members can have access any time, you should consider deputizing anyone with a key. Not everyone needs a key -- plus it helps with security. You'll probably want to get some cheap cameras to install interior/exterior.  Also, consider what kind of games you'll want to allow and if its RPG-exclusive or even exclusive to one RPG series (WOD, COC, SWRPG, D&D et al.).

This is exciting dude! I've got more advice and suggestions from my own years doing the club thing but that'll be it for this evening from me.

Quote from: jeff37923;1053080OK, well I'm not doing the convention anymore. The organizer called me on the phone and informed me that the ten tables I was told I'd have are now going to be used by the local chapter of the Adventurer's League. I'd get to use a set of three tables away from the main gaming area, in another section of the convention. This just became too much of a headache to want to deal with. So I told the organizer goodbye.

I'm tired of this bullshit. The Organized Play fuck-o's want their shit to be the only public game in town and they can have it. I'm buying a house and going to direct my efforts to things that are more rewarding for me personally like home games and writing. Everything else, I am putting on hold.

I've hesitated to respond to this for several reasons; besides our political disagreements in the RPGPundit Forum, I play in Adventurers League.

I am sorry that the AL organizers in your area are jerks; at the last convention I volunteered at with AL for our local group, the organizer went on and on in praising the volunteer DMs for the positive feedback we got, and we must have looked confused about why it deserved so much mention because he added, "Yeah, that's not always the case." So some of the positive feedback seems to have been "we were happy that you guys weren't jerks like they were at another convention I went to".

I am also sorry that gaming conventions will lose your efforts; I believe you had posted in the past about running games for charity. Consider local gaming stores that have space to play, as they typically do not want one game to take over, because variety will get them more business.

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[/HR]
The current changes for the next AL season threaten to put me off; the XP rules (that are mentioned in the append of Xanathar's Guide to Everything) are OK (essentially, one hour scheduled is worth 1/4 or 1/8th of the XP to the next level) but there's a wealth-by-level thing that threatens to make it pointless. And maybe an implication that adventures won't be allowed to be risky. I've played in AL as much because I like 5e, it's easier to find a game, I get to connect with friends who also play, and it's nostalgia for the late 70s when we had a sprawling multiverse of DM worlds you could freely move among. I've already shifted from playing at one game store to a common room at someone's apartment building, although we're still AL there for the present.

I would note that AL groups tend to want more and more tables at conventions because the organizers want to run the big events (epics and opens) where it's more fun if there are a lot more tables for the sprawling event, but maybe more because they might get the chance to create their own content or other perks if they are seen as having a lot of participation. I do think they should get their space at remote parts of the convention for that kind of thing, since it's typically aimed at people who are specifically looking for them - the intro games of all sorts and a variety of games should be front and center at every convention.

Quote from: jeff37923;1053449Well, I had my Business Advisor come by and take a look at the space and I threw the idea by her. The basics are that we fix up the garage to be a habitable space (insulation, drywall, a half-bathroom, window mount A/C unit), place a couple of tables with six chairs each, a microwave oven, a fridge (possible mini, but I can get a full sized one for the same price used), some cheap totes and cabinets for storage of books/terrain/minis, and a small sofa/love seat in there. The members would pay $20 a month for the use of a key to get into the garage and use the club whenever they wish (since it is my house, I get final say over who gets a key). Snacks and drinks will be in the fridge, with a cash box for deposits in order to fund the snacks and drinks supply. The small sofa was suggested for anybody who wants to bring along their significant other to hang out if they don't game. Email and Facebook would be used to communicate and pass on requests for snacks to purchase. Any extra money from the club will be used to pay for utilities, improvements, and club owned gaming gear for use by members.

A lot of the money will be done on an honor system because this will be set up like a club, not necessarily a business, even though I plan to keep financial records and have them be open for perusal by members of the club.

It worked pretty well in the past and I don't see why it wouldn't now. Besides the Adventurer's Inn locally, there also used to be the Yankee Peddler which started out as a wargame club and grew into a FLGS (incidentally where I bought my first copy of Traveller).

Does it speak well of me that the first idea passing through my head was LARPing Hallmark Channel Mysteries, like a Detective's Club of nosy suburbanites messing with cold cases and getting in danger?

Then we can all dress up, invade private spaces, and pretend we are solving cases. Whoever gets locked up last is a rotten egg!

Quote from: rawma;1053546I've hesitated to respond to this for several reasons; besides our political disagreements in the RPGPundit Forum, I play in Adventurers League.

Whatever our political disagreements are, and I know I can be an asshole about them, and your involvement in the Adventurer's League - I do not hold that against you personally. The AL is composed of a lot of people and I do not think that the jackass I have to deal with is representative of them all.

Quote from: rawma;1053546I am sorry that the AL organizers in your area are jerks; at the last convention I volunteered at with AL for our local group, the organizer went on and on in praising the volunteer DMs for the positive feedback we got, and we must have looked confused about why it deserved so much mention because he added, "Yeah, that's not always the case." So some of the positive feedback seems to have been "we were happy that you guys weren't jerks like they were at another convention I went to".

I am also sorry that gaming conventions will lose your efforts; I believe you had posted in the past about running games for charity. Consider local gaming stores that have space to play, as they typically do not want one game to take over, because variety will get them more business.

---

[/HR]
The current changes for the next AL season threaten to put me off; the XP rules (that are mentioned in the append of Xanathar's Guide to Everything) are OK (essentially, one hour scheduled is worth 1/4 or 1/8th of the XP to the next level) but there's a wealth-by-level thing that threatens to make it pointless. And maybe an implication that adventures won't be allowed to be risky. I've played in AL as much because I like 5e, it's easier to find a game, I get to connect with friends who also play, and it's nostalgia for the late 70s when we had a sprawling multiverse of DM worlds you could freely move among. I've already shifted from playing at one game store to a common room at someone's apartment building, although we're still AL there for the present.

I would note that AL groups tend to want more and more tables at conventions because the organizers want to run the big events (epics and opens) where it's more fun if there are a lot more tables for the sprawling event, but maybe more because they might get the chance to create their own content or other perks if they are seen as having a lot of participation. I do think they should get their space at remote parts of the convention for that kind of thing, since it's typically aimed at people who are specifically looking for them - the intro games of all sorts and a variety of games should be front and center at every convention.

I think that organized play has a lot of potential, but a lot of times I wonder if it will be realized. It all comes down to the people. Every time.

EDIT: Hypothetical - Let's say that I wanted to run AL games at the club. Would I have to work through WotC's local representative and regional coordinator or could I just go through WotC directly. I'm thinking that if I can just avoid the schmuck, then I won't have to deal with the BS.