GaryCom just removed Frank Mentzer from the guest list

GameDaddy · February 20, 2019, 03:16:51 AM

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1075813Because being part of a (internet) lynch mob feels good and it feels righteous.

Hmmm no. There was something else. Something new.

S'mon · February 20, 2019, 03:25:11 AM

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1075814Yeah, they're kind of a sensitive bunch, almost as bad as those guys on Citizens of the Imperium. What's wrong with just letting everyone say, "Frankie old chum, you're being a cocksmock. Now shut the fuck up and roll the dice."

I think because it was sent as a PM not a public rant, and it included an actual threat - it was pretty nasty. Whereas for his open statements on DF attacking* the site I'd probably agree. But Steve didn't ban him lightly.

*And threatening! He threatened the terrible penalty of naming a troll village in his Kickstarter setting after them!

Spinachcat · February 20, 2019, 04:01:31 AM

We will see if the Academy Awards can get viewers without a host. My bet is audience numbers drop below last year, even with Black Panther nominated.

As for game cons, they don't NEED special guests, but special guests draw in attendees.

When I worked marketing in LA Cons, we definitely noted that special guests increased attendance. Not massive numbers, but definitely those people who enjoyed getting books signed and listening to panels talk.

Personally, I felt the best guest of honor programs were "Play with the Creator" events. Those events were almost always packed tables with great feedback.

I suspect "special guests" are most important for mid-sized cons/regional events as they convince people to travel/book hotels.

Spinachcat · February 20, 2019, 04:18:56 AM

Quote from: Razor 007;1075786I guess he could start MentzerCon?

At this point, there's enough UnPersons to fill a Special Guests list for a BadWrongCon!!

And I bet it would make money.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1075783Mentzer is an idiot. But the day will come when someone accuses Luke Gygax. This is the nature of such a movement: everyone is guilty in the end.

100% agree.

Mentzer's behavior has been idiotic and he deserved to be called out, but this witch hunt bullshit has got to stop.

And the SJW clock is ticking on Luke Gygax. Like Mearls, he won't be able to doubleplus virtue dance forever.

Quote from: EOTB;1075727as I consider the ability to tell anyone in gaming to go fuck themselves to be more valuable than any dozens of gaming dollars.

100% agree.

I'd argue very few jobs are worth surrendering your honest voice.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;1075814What's wrong with just letting everyone say, "Frankie old chum, you're being a cocksmock. Now shut the fuck up and roll the dice."

Exactly. That's the alpha and the omega of what was needed to be done, but we now live in American the Dickless.

Abraxus · February 20, 2019, 06:30:50 AM

Quote from: Spinachcat;1075825Mentzer's behavior has been idiotic and he deserved to be called out, but this witch hunt bullshit has got to stop.

Until theirs a huge push back against SJWs and especially vigilante style justice by court of public opinion it will not. We have people who to be part of the cool kids club lose any and all self-respect and throw friends or family under the bus and for what so they can join the cool kids club. Mentzer actions were just stupid and lacked any social survival skills whatsoever.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1075825And the SJW clock is ticking on Luke Gygax. Like Mearls, he won't be able to doubleplus virtue dance forever.

Get woke go broke and he is next. They are not safe. I would not be surprised if Luke does not receive demands and he better do it to either condemn his fathers and/or his rpg. For whatever SJW reason they can find.

Mordred Pendragon · February 20, 2019, 01:09:01 PM

Quote from: Spinachcat;1075825At this point, there's enough UnPersons to fill a Special Guests list for a BadWrongCon!!

And I bet it would make money.

No joke, I would do everything I could to go to a BadWrongCon for RPG's.

Hmmm...maybe we should get Venger, Pundit, Grim, and maybe a few others to get this to happen.

I will volunteer as the Master of Ceremonies. Pundit would be the main guest of honor, of course.

Of course, I'd host it in the city known as the "Star City" and the "Goth Capital of the South", and that city is Roanoke, Virginia!

mightybrain · February 20, 2019, 07:16:35 PM

I've always thought in D&D that humans were capable of far more evil than any monster. This treatment of Mentzer shows just how bad the so called community can be when they put their mind to it. Vile.

Great material though. Are my players ever going to get it if they make it back to Neverwinter.

S'mon · February 20, 2019, 08:09:30 PM

Quote from: mightybrain;1075934I've always thought in D&D that humans were capable of far more evil than any monster. This treatment of Mentzer shows just how bad the so called community can be when they put their mind to it. Vile.

It gets worse - http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?657277-What-the-heck-is-going-on-with-the-professional-RPG-industry-in-regards-to-Zak-S&p=7566424&viewfull=1#post7566424

Sorry for cross-forum drama, but apparently ENW moderation is ok with some dumbfuck calling Mentzer "rapey". :mad:

kythri · February 20, 2019, 09:42:09 PM

I hadn't realized ENworld had gone full-RPG.net.

That thread is a laugh-riot, though. Someone is proposing that the ENnies strip Zak of his awards so that he can't "capitalize" on them and use his awards for future employment.

As if anyone outside of a couple of Internet forums give a rat's ass about the participation trophies known as ENnie Awards...

Hell - I'd bet hard cash that Zak is more widely known than those bullshit awards.

crkrueger · February 21, 2019, 12:48:54 AM

Quote from: jhkim;1075723On the general issue - I think S'mon's comment about criminal activity is off base. Someone doesn't need to be a criminal in order to be disinvited from being a special guest at a convention. If someone acts like a huge jerk, it's totally reasonable for them to stop getting invited to social events like cons.

I agree that Mentzer didn't do drunk leering, but what he did do was blatantly threaten to destroy people's careers in gaming just for disagreeing with him (both Price and EOTB).

You keep trying to peddle that, John, but in Price's case, conveniently, that one portion of his correspondence there is ZERO PROOF for, even though every other aspect is meticulously detailed, as you would expect from a professional victim.

jhkim · February 21, 2019, 02:30:37 AM

Quote from: jhkimOn the general issue - I think S'mon's comment about criminal activity is off base. Someone doesn't need to be a criminal in order to be disinvited from being a special guest at a convention. If someone acts like a huge jerk, it's totally reasonable for them to stop getting invited to social events like cons.

I agree that Mentzer didn't do drunk leering, but what he did do was blatantly threaten to destroy people's careers in gaming just for disagreeing with him (both Price and EOTB).

Quote from: CRKrueger;1075972You keep trying to peddle that, John, but in Price's case, conveniently, that one portion of his correspondence there is ZERO PROOF for, even though every other aspect is meticulously detailed, as you would expect from a professional victim.

I agree that there was no screen capture of the threat in question, but there wasn't screen capture of nearly all of the exchange. At least in the Twitter feed I saw from Price, there were only two screen captures of Facebook PM exchanges - covering only four messages from Mentzer. Nearly all of the back-and-forth during posts and comments was only described, not captured. So yeah, this part relies on witness testimony - like most allegations.

And really, screen capture isn't proof. It's easy to fake, like a lot of evidence. Witness testimony is crucial to any judgement.

S'mon · February 21, 2019, 02:39:41 AM

Quote from: jhkim;1075985I agree that there was no screen capture of the threat in question, but there wasn't screen capture of nearly all of the exchange. At least in the Twitter feed I saw from Price, there were only two screen captures of Facebook PM exchanges - covering only four messages from Mentzer. Nearly all of the back-and-forth during posts and comments was only described, not captured. So yeah, this part relies on witness testimony - like most allegations.

And really, screen capture isn't proof. It's easy to fake, like a lot of evidence. Witness testimony is crucial to any judgement.

Well we know what Price is like, and that she timed her revelation of year-old PMs for maximum damage to Mentzer. We also know what Mentzer is like, thanks to the Dragonsfoot debacle. So we can make an educated assessment that he likely said something obnoxious and that she put the worst possible spin on it.

SHARK · February 21, 2019, 02:50:16 AM

Quote from: S'mon;1075988Well we know what Price is like, and that she timed her revelation of year-old PMs for maximum damage to Mentzer. We also know what Mentzer is like, thanks to the Dragonsfoot debacle. So we can make an educated assessment that he likely said something obnoxious and that she put the worst possible spin on it.

Greetings!

LOL! Such wonderful, verbal surgery, S'mon!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

S'mon · February 21, 2019, 03:02:34 AM

Quote from: SHARK;1075990Greetings!
LOL! Such wonderful, verbal surgery, S'mon!

I'm at my best when I've just had my fourth coffee of the morning.

kythri · February 21, 2019, 09:12:25 AM

Quote from: S'mon;1075988Well we know what Price is like, and that she timed her revelation of year-old PMs for maximum damage to Mentzer. We also know what Mentzer is like, thanks to the Dragonsfoot debacle. So we can make an educated assessment that he likely said something obnoxious and that she put the worst possible spin on it.

I'd further posit that since we know what Price is like, we know she's an unreliable, dishonest witness, and we shouldn't give anything she says any credibility any longer.

Anyone citing statements by Price as "evidence" should be roundly mocked.