Quote from: S'mon;1078974It's relatively harmless if it doesn't get too popular.

Sorry but that a pipe dream, the shared community experience and tracking of items and experience is quite addictive. What needs to be done to make sure that game companies keep their organized play material and considerations out of their core books. And hold them to that.

A major issue with D&D 3.5 and D&D 4e was that both were designed with organized play considerations within the core rule book. D&D 4e moreso.

Quote from: estar;1078997Most of the people who are heavily involved in organized play are not there because they couldn't cut it in a home campaign. Because they become part of the local organized play group and develop friendships with those involved.

This has been my experience with the Starfinder Society (Paizo's version of organized play) My brother and I, our personal groups are rather unreliable, but the society is pretty good at getting people in seats. The price you pay, as you said, is that the gaming is more regimented and standardized.

Quote from: estar;1078998Sorry but that a pipe dream, the shared community experience and tracking of items and experience is quite addictive. What needs to be done to make sure that game companies keep their organized play material and considerations out of their core books. And hold them to that.

A major issue with D&D 3.5 and D&D 4e was that both were designed with organized play considerations within the core rule book. D&D 4e moreso.

   I'm one of the few people on this forum who appreciates 4E, and even I have to concede this. But I'm not sure that's ever going to change now--WotC has a history of successful Organized Play that goes back to before they even acquired D&D.

Quote from: estar;1078998Sorry but that a pipe dream, the shared community experience and tracking of items and experience is quite addictive. What needs to be done to make sure that game companies keep their organized play material and considerations out of their core books. And hold them to that.

A major issue with D&D 3.5 and D&D 4e was that both were designed with organized play considerations within the core rule book. D&D 4e moreso.

From working with Dragon Storm I can attest to that. Players loved it. Until the people running the Guild progressively ruined it.

So far it seems like its been the other way around for 5e and its organized play. They just recently adapted into AL elements from the books instead. And not sure, but far as I ever saw way back, little from Ravens Bluff ever seemed to actually make it outside of the RPGA. Same for Living Jungle. If any of that ever made it to published books I never saw it. For now at least the AL seems mostly open ended with the ongoing events from modules being there to play in. But from reading the packet seems you are free to adventure in other stuff within certain limits.

With AL the one thing I have not yet pinned down is if you can run prior modules and still garner points. Like for example hosting Tyranny of Dragons first before rolling into the current event which I believe is Dragon Heist?

I found this little gem in the comments on Frank's Facebook:

QuoteI looked at the Garycon website forums and noted that the "Other" forum is described as "Politics, sports, and how to pick up chicks."
That told me enough about them.
"Cast out the mote in one's own eye..."

and then:

QuoteWow...I read the the thread...they apologize for the title of the forum containing the word Chicks...insisted that it was a left over from the previous forums....so now the scrubbed the apology for not acting until Frank pointed it out.... A non apology for an apology

As I said, if they applied their Draconian rules fairly, they'd ban themselves.

The situation seems to continue on social media. What shall I say? - I am glad that I wrote what I wrote here a month ago.

This is not about principles. This is about Frank being treated very unfairly, from all we know so far. Let's take care that this is corrected.

I don't think anything should change.  

He doesn't have a right to be a guest of honor.  Garycon parted ways with him; that's their right.  

From everything I've seen on this thread, there are plenty of reasons to disinvite him.

Mind you that the way GaryCon generally handles their guests is not on trial here: That they're making a bad argument while removing one specific guest is.

So, their plan for taking the high road was to call Frank out in public by branding him as a "harbinger", and then spend, what, two months on social media bitching about how that callout was totally misunderstood, supposedly out of context, and ? - Again, not much to say here, other than that the self-appointed leaders of the OSR should behave in a more professional fashion.

If Frank is a harasser, as they claim - in ways that transgress what his original accuser has stated -, they are empowering him by their own stupidity.

If Frank is not, and they are accusing him in the court of public opinion based on false claims or based on hearsay, they are undermining their own authority and interests in a way that is remarkable.

In any case, not my battle to fight. Hard to watch, though, as a general fan of the hobby. For ten years, whenever my mates and I talked about visiting the states, it was all about GaryCon. Not any more, now.

So now that the dust has settled. What was the result? Some were crowing that GC had an even bigger attendance this year as if removing Frank was the reason.

Wouldn't it be just reasonable to assume that the dust up caused enough coverage that more people knew GC existed? (As in why would they leap directly to the conclusion that the removal was the reason instead of just getting talked about more in any context increased awareness.)

The people that were bitching about Bill Webb or Frank Mentzer being at a convention were not people that were every seriously considering attending these conventions in the first place, so, no, I don't believe that any of these cons benefited from increased attendance due to those actions.

I mean, seriously - does anyone truly believe that fuckwits like Stacy Dellofano or Jessica Price would attend GaryCon, Gamehole Con or NTRPGcon?

Bill Webb still went to GaryCon, and Frank Mentzer wasn't banned from GaryCon, he just wasn't a "special guest" - he could have attended if he desired.  I'm quite sure that if he had decided to attend, it would have had no effect, positive or negative, on other's attendance at the con.

Quote from: kythri;1081697The people that were bitching about Bill Webb or Frank Mentzer being at a convention were not people that were every seriously considering attending these conventions in the first place, so, no, I don't believe that any of these cons benefited from increased attendance due to those actions.

I mean, seriously - does anyone truly believe that fuckwits like Stacy Dellofano or Jessica Price would attend GaryCon, Gamehole Con or NTRPGcon?

Bill Webb still went to GaryCon, and Frank Mentzer wasn't banned from GaryCon, he just wasn't a "special guest" - he could have attended if he desired.  I'm quite sure that if he had decided to attend, it would have had no effect, positive or negative, on other's attendance at the con.

Attendance was up this year at GaryCon, we set a new record. We had more than 2,500 registered attendees by the time I showed up on Thursday Afternoon, and these counts didn't include the Friday and Saturday drop-ins that just show up and purchase badges at the show. That reminds me, I need to finish my Sunday report and then post links for all four of my GaryCon Blog reports. Monday Morning seems good to wrap up for this, and I'll post links for my conventions reports here in the morning! Blog reports for the first three days are already up on the website linked below, if you want a look-see...

Oh, don't get me wrong - I'm not saying you didn't have record attendance.

I'm saying the SJW outrage over Mentzer and Webb didn't contribute to that.  I don't believe for a second that any of the perpetually-outraged ever considered going to your con before the incidents, and I don't believe that the attempted appeasement of these assholes by your con convinced these people to attend, where they wouldn't have otherwise.

Yeah, the idea that attendance to an OSR convention was due to the censoring of well-known OSR people is ridiculous.

From reports, Garycon is not an OSR convention, but a convention with a large OSR element.  

GameDaddy, was this year's increase in attendance among the OSR side or the 5e/PF OrgPlay side?