Brad, what was your impression of NTRPGCon vs. GaryCon?

Quote from: JRT;1077829Ernie and his partner Benoist are the ones doing the Hobby Shop Dungeon.  That is becoming a fiasco and backers are getting upset, but Luke Gygax has nothing to do with that project at all.  If that one fails, it will be a black mark on Ernie Gygax and people are not going to trust him if it fails, but it's not going to affect GaryCon's reputation.

This is The RPGPundit's total lack of surprise.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1077902How popular of a guest is Frank Mentzer?

AKA, have any of you attended GaryCon or other con where Frank was present? Was he popular with attendees? Was he popular with other special guests? AKA, did he run big events or well attended panels?

I ask because I'm trying to look at this idiotic shitfest from an "Old School Con" marketing perspective. If GaryCon wants to be focused on "Gary's games and Gary's old crew", then I wonder how much Frank has value as "Gary's Old Crew" for drawing attendees.

Of course, it sounds like GaryCon was an Old School Con when it began, but has since transitioned into a General Gaming Con so perhaps "Gary's Old Crew" aren't a necessary (or even desired) element.

Maybe SJW human garbage are a key demographic of GaryCon attendees and Luke is just taking care of his actual customers? AKA, maybe Luke is just following the money and protecting his dollars.  

I don't know the GaryCon demographic as I've never attended, but answers to most questions in life can be solved by following the money.

Not quite what you asked, but Frank's marketing value mostly lies in the fact that, outside of the US, he is a megastar compared to other figures from the days of yore: AD&D only saw a very limited release in Europe (and in Asia, IIRC), and the version that people here have been playing if they were born in the 80s is usually Mentzer D&D, either through the boxes, or through the Rules Cyclopedia (like myself). - So, his name value, and the weight of his word is not to be underestimated.

My impression (never having attended) is that Gary Con was initially for friends and family to celebrate the man's life. As it has gotten bigger they want to attract a wider audience. And I think Gary would have wanted everyone to be welcome. The problem comes when that larger audience start applying purity tests to attendees. Tests which, applied fairly and without bias, would reject everyone including the hosts themselves.

I don't know how much influence Frank still has. Obviously not much given these events. But from all accounts that I have heard, he and Deb are the nicest people in the hobby; and they really didn't deserve this.

GaryCon wants to grow beyond old school.  Honor it perhaps, but the model seems to "normal con that reserves space for older games/styles".

NTRPG is only about the old ways, and doesn't care to attract everyone

If I had to budget for only one, it would be Texas.  But GC is still good.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1077945Brad, what was your impression of NTRPGCon vs. GaryCon?

Quote from: EOTB;1078040GaryCon wants to grow beyond old school.  Honor it perhaps, but the model seems to "normal con that reserves space for older games/styles".

NTRPG is only about the old ways, and doesn't care to attract everyone

If I had to budget for only one, it would be Texas.  But GC is still good.

EOTB echos my views; NT is a small con that hasn't expanded on purpose. It's small because it gives greater access to the special guests. My buddy likes Garycon and is a special guest this year (he lives in WI so it's an easy drive for him), but even he said it's just morphing into what is essentially Gencon-light. For a "small con", Garycon sure did feel pretty large.

I'll probably go to Gamehole con once next year maybe to check it out, but if I attend any other cons in the future (debatable at the rate I'm going) it'll basically be NT and that's it.

EDIT: This reminds me to ask him to pick up some gaming crap for me...

Quote from: Brad;1078072It's small because it gives greater access to the special guests.

It's a heck of an Old School/OSR guest list too:

Quote from: NTRPGKelley Allen, Chris Clark, David "Zeb" Cook, Darlene, Jeff Dee, Jeff Easley, Larry Elmore, Alyssa Faden,  Matt Finch, Alex Gygax, Ernie Gygax, Allen Hammack, Alex Kammer, Timothy Kask, Doug Kovacs, David "Diesel" LaForce, Jeff Leason,  Manda "Talzhemir", Steve Marsh, Erol Otus, Steve Perrin, Jon Peterson, Stefan Pokorny, Merle Rasmussen, Dr. Scott Robinson, Elizabeth Stewart, Dr. Dennis Sustare, Jim Wampler, Bill Webb, Steven Winter

I saw someone say on MeWe that there were like nearly three times more D&D 5e Adventurer's League or whatever it's called games than all the old-edition D&D games put together this year.

Is that true?

Quote from: RPGPundit;1078954I saw someone say on MeWe that there were like nearly three times more D&D 5e Adventurer's League or whatever it's called games than all the old-edition D&D games put together this year.

I'm a big 5e fan, and my experience of players coming in via Critical Role has been very positive, but Organised Play is truly a Blight Upon the Land!

Quote from: RPGPundit;1078954I saw someone say on MeWe that there were like nearly three times more D&D 5e Adventurer's League or whatever it's called games than all the old-edition D&D games put together this year.

Is that true?

Adventurer's League. Kinda what the RPGA used to be. Except without the problems the RPGA eventually developed.

As for their being more AL games than older editions being played. Where? At GaryCon? Seems an exaggeration or they were counting non AL 5e sessions in there? All indicators were that GC hosted more non-5e games.

GenCon on the other hand I'd expect there to be alot of AL stuff either company hosted or AL member hosted.

Quote from: S'mon;1078963I'm a big 5e fan, and my experience of players coming in via Critical Role has been very positive, but Organised Play is truly a Blight Upon the Land!

How so?

I just nabbed a copy of the latest packet and had a quick clance over it and seems pretty ok so far. Nothing leaps out as bad in chargen except for one little thing.
Can use the PHB+1 other book for chargen
Array or Point Buy for stats. Array being the one from the PHB. 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8.
Choose a background. AL adds some sort of renown system to your PCs background. Not sure what that is yet.
Alignment can be any non-evil one unless you are in the Lords Alliance or Zentarim factions. Being in a Faction is optional.
Equip the character.

Levelling is interesting. No EXP. You accumulate points for adventuring. At a guess at milestone points in modules.
Also garner points that can be used to purchase special items.

Overall it reads remarkably similar to how Dragon Storm's Stormrider Guild worked.

The one bit of quirk noted was that  Blessing of Corellon was brought up in the list of the variants race options a PC can take. I do not think this was an "agenda" thing. But it is bemusing to see it listed.

Quote from: Omega;1078967How so?

It pushes out proper D&D!!

Quote from: S'mon;1078971It pushes out proper D&D!!

Again. How so? From all I have seen so far its running much like the RPGA used to when they had the "Living" series of organized play going. Ravens Bluff, Living Jungle, Living Seattle and so on?

Quote from: Omega;1078972Again. How so? From all I have seen so far its running much like the RPGA used to when they had the "Living" series of organized play going. Ravens Bluff, Living Jungle, Living Seattle and so on?

I didn't say the RPGA didn't push out Proper D&D. Depends on popularity. Any kind of no-continuity PC-centric Org Play system is a degraded form IMO. It's relatively harmless if it doesn't get too popular.

Quote from: Omega;1078972Again. How so? From all I have seen so far its running much like the RPGA used to when they had the "Living" series of organized play going. Ravens Bluff, Living Jungle, Living Seattle and so on?

Because in order to be fair to all participants the designers have to homogenize campaigns and settings. Encounters has to be balanced and treasure awards appropriate for the difficulty and level.

A home campaign in contrast can flows more naturally with life of the setting of a campaign. My campaign can feature a stingy treasure distribution that comprised of mundane valuable items where your campaign can feature a rich treasure distribution that mostly comprised of various magical items.

Both make sense in terms of our respective settings. While organized play has to set on a single standard that pleases the average player ranging from Seattle Washington to Miami Florida.

In addition the choices of character creations likewise must be balanced. A Fighter can be different and specialized can't be more efficient over the course of a organized play campaign compared to a wizard. And vice versa. This also distorts the design of adventures as they have to design to allow for all the character creation options to shine. Which usually includes everything in the core book.

To any of this otherwise would result in a unfair outcome for a segment of those involved in organized play.

These issues are not limited to organized play for tabletop roleplaying. They also effect MMORPGS and LARPS that are part of national organizations. Something I experienced when I own a NERO boffer LARP chapter from 1999 to 2003. As a favor I will run organized play events at my local game store and when I first did this it was very similar to some of the things I had while managing events for my LARP chapter.

The upside to all this is the sense of community one develops through participating. Knowing that you are part of a larger whole grappling with the current campaign season. That you can go to a convention or another event and take your character and items with you.

Most of the people who are heavily involved in organized play are not there because they couldn't cut it in a home campaign. Because they become part of the local organized play group and develop friendships with those involved.