Quote from: ColonelHardisson;229498I'd consider doing it, but I just got the PHB, and have yet to get the rest of the books. My initial assessment, after giving a fairly cursory look/skim of the PHB, is that while it would be fairly easy to keep Gandalf and the other "big guns" at 3rd/4th/5th level, the hobbits would be harder to depict, especially at the beginning of the story. At least, in my opinion. The classes of 4e seem more powerful at first level than the hobbits seemed to me at the opening of the book, and there aren't any NPC classes in 4e. It might be worthwhile to use 3e's NPC classes, or strip away some of the powers/abilities 4e's classes have at first level, and have them progress through one or two "zero levels" before hitting first.

Hence my sarcastic comment that someone as powerful as Superman would only count as a first level fighter.

Quote from: jgants;229502Hence my sarcastic comment that someone as powerful as Superman would only count as a first level fighter.

I got what you were getting at, but I'd actually been thinking about doing what you mentioned in the first part of the post.

If an anime company ever does LotR, I am sure the 4e rules will do Gandalf and crew just fine.

And hot damn, I would love to see that.

Halfling Tears           Halfling Attack 0
You burst into tears compelling those affected to comfort you, and say wise, compassionate things.
At will* martial fail
Standard Action         Halfling
Targets: Other halflings, elves, cranky wizard guys
Attack: Charisma vs Will
Hit: All parties shift up to three squares and begin patting you on the back. someone will also be compelled to mention how strong you and all the little folk are. Targets will be unable to do anything but offer comfort or eat elf toast until the end of your next turn.

Quote from: ColonelHardisson;142283I really would have to sit down and put on my thinking cap to figure out how Gandalf defeated the Balrog. This is especially true because of Gandalf's account of his battle all the way down and then back up again to the top of the mountain with the creature.

Maybe Gandalf made it all up. Maybe he just ran away. I mean, did he ever present any proof he'd slain the Balrog? A head, or even a big toe? Nope!

Combine that with "oh yes I'm terribly powerful but if I use it I'll draw nasty attention to us," and what you get is that Gandalf was a level 5 Magic-User, and a level 10 Bullshitter.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;229634Maybe Gandalf made it all up. Maybe he just ran away. I mean, did he ever present any proof he'd slain the Balrog? A head, or even a big toe? Nope!

Combine that with "oh yes I'm terribly powerful but if I use it I'll draw nasty attention to us," and what you get is that Gandalf was a level 5 Magic-User, and a level 10 Bullshitter.

You've got it all wrong.  Gandalf was, lore speaking, a demi-god.  He was definitely powerful enough.

Where he tended to bullshit was in fact making himself seem weaker than he really was.  

It's a sort of religious thing, really, the way he works.  He could do more, but that would interfere too much, kinda like God committing too many miracles would destroy faith, Gandalf letting go too much of his power in front of the normies would lead them to not rely enough on their own strength instead.

He's a manipulative bastard, really.  Even that whole showy transformation to the White Wizard is basically a way of him just using more of the power he already had, but having a "story excuse" to get away with it and still not spook the locals.

Quote from: Calithena;229446Just for Balbinus:

Exalted can totally do Gandalf and Middle Earth. Just use these house rules...

(page of blather)

Come the revolution, while you may not be first against the wall, I shall certainly be sure to save you a spot just for this post.

All I need now is for someone to explain how Dogs is the ideal game for LotR and I shall shout thread bingo...

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;229634Maybe Gandalf made it all up. Maybe he just ran away. I mean, did he ever present any proof he'd slain the Balrog? A head, or even a big toe? Nope!

Combine that with "oh yes I'm terribly powerful but if I use it I'll draw nasty attention to us," and what you get is that Gandalf was a level 5 Magic-User, and a level 10 Bullshitter.

It really depends which books you use doesn't it?

Just the Hobbit, he ain't that tough.

LotR, he's fairly tough, but it seems pretty limited and as you say we take a lot of it on faith.

Silmarillion, he's a madwhack voodoo ninja.

Huh. I guess DitV could do it. Gandalf, Radagast, those guys could be Dogs. Then Saruman would be a fallen Dog who summoned demons...hmm...yep, Frodo and Sam passing judgment on Gollum, Gandalf on the Steward of Minas Tirith, it's all there. This is totally a Dogs adventure.

Actually, though, I think Wushu would be an even better fit. I mean, yes, Tolkien does go into lots of quasi-historic and descriptive detail, even describing the equipment people bring on some occasions, and the fighting seems pretty naturalistic, but since you just bring your own descriptions in, Wushu would work great. Oh, and the Uruk Hai are totally mooks. Totally. The hobbit fighting style involves a lot of sneaking and hiding, but...

*BAM*

Yeah, I hate this kind of post too.

Quote from: Balbinus;229678It really depends which books you use doesn't it?

Just the Hobbit, he ain't that tough.

LotR, he's fairly tough, but it seems pretty limited and as you say we take a lot of it on faith.

Silmarillion, he's a madwhack voodoo ninja.

Coincidentally, my Risus write-up for the big G has Madwhack Voodoo Ninja [4] as one of his cliches.

Quote from: Calithena;134344So how do we reconcile our intuition with the bare facts? Well, for one thing, as I hinted above, the universe of LOTR was magic-weak. It is easy to assume that it was run by “ a very tough DM” who rewarded experience so slowly that it would take 2000 years for a pseudo-angel to get to the 5th level, and 6000 years or so for an EHP to reach 12th. But it is still unsettling. I would rather place the blame on the scale we are using: the D&D magic system. It seems a more likely thing for Gygax and Arneson to misjudge the spell levels. So what can we do? Change the spell system, the experience system or the levels of the spells, or all of the above? What is your response?

My response is that the game rules are doing their job, and that it's best for me to actually change my own perspective to fit OD&D's frame rather than try and alter the D&D game in ways that just create more problems elsewhere.

This post is an awesome read. I just had to resurrect the thread for those who might have missed it.

Quote from: ColonelHardisson;134432Y'know, here's something I posted to this very site over a year ago...

Wow. That's awesome too (click quote arrow to see what the Colonel is quoting).

Quote from: jrients;229741Coincidentally, my Risus write-up for the big G has Madwhack Voodoo Ninja [4] as one of his cliches.

I pretty sure thats a Rifts OCC.

If not, it would make a great splatbook.

Quote from: Benoist;442169My response is that the game rules are doing their job, and that it's best for me to actually change my own perspective to fit OD&D's frame rather than try and alter the D&D game in ways that just create more problems elsewhere.

This post is an awesome read. I just had to resurrect the thread for those who might have missed it.

Indeed. Never once while playing Traveler did anyone whine because you can't "beam up" like in Star Trek, or cross the galaxy in a couple of hours as in Star Wars. Traveler isn't Star Wars or Star Trek.

D&D isn't Tolkien -deal with it.

Traveller is a terrible example.
Everyone I knew bitched about the lack of blasters. Everyone.