Hello all,

I suppose an argument could be made that the method by which Gandalf can take low level spells and remaster them into something more complex points to his master of the spell that is beyond the "entry" level for that spell. Certainly it is clear that a fifth level mage can throw a fireball, but to be able to make a fireball (or lightning bolt) do more than what your everyday, generic, run-of-the-mill AD&D fireball can do takes mastery that points to eons of development.  Gandalf made it look easy, perhaps because he had the time to master it.  Perhaps an argument can be made that his SPELL LEVEL was lower, but certainly his EXPERIENCE LEVEL is much higher.

With the higher level of master (assumably) comes the higher level spells, but he just never used them (that we can tell), cared to study to get them, or was prohibited to try.

Just a thought.

I read this whole article, and I still don't know whether Gandalf could beat Kirk.

Kirk? Are you high? Gandalf couldn't even take Mighty Mouse.

Quote from: Age of Fable;228465I read this whole article, and I still don't know whether Gandalf could beat Kirk.

They would fight to a standstill, then each would realize the other was a good guy, then set about teaming up against the bad guy who had them fight.

Happens in comic books all the time.

Didn't this exact subject get a good working over back in 1977? I'm sure it featured in the letters pages of Dragon or somesuch magazine back 'in the day'.

Exactly the same conclusion.

Thanks for the Fellowship writeup, Col. I remember you breaking that down long ago. "Arcane Eye" for Sauron, indeed...

I guess if you want to get REALLY old school Gandalf was a Wizard and the Balrog was a Balrog...not going to look up what their odds against each other are in Chainmail just now...

Quote from: Mithras;228603Didn't this exact subject get a good working over back in 1977? I'm sure it featured in the letters pages of Dragon or somesuch magazine back 'in the day'.

Exactly the same conclusion.

Well, yeah. My original post in this thread (#20) was a direct response to that Dragon article from 1977, and I directly referenced it and the guy who wrote it.

Sometimes it does pay to read the thread before posting.

Personally I've always found LoTR to be much better stated out when you base it around the Warhammer rules.  Everything actually fits into place then.  You get your skilled fighter types, your almost non-gay elves and you get your really powerful but not extremely diverse spell casting wizards that could kick the shit out of a Balrog.

kryst, I'd like to see what you come up with for G and the gang, if you're up for it.

See, Gandalf fits much better in the Riddle of Steel world- Magic is much more dangerous there. In the main book, the wrong thing can actually destroy the world. Gandalf had a few botches in his history, so he appeared ancient, and was careful with his magic because he didn't want to ruin the world!

Quote from: cr0m;229368kryst, I'd like to see what you come up with for G and the gang, if you're up for it.

That would require - free time.  But I may see what I can whip up.  I should at least be able to throw the career paths together.

Just for Balbinus:

Exalted can totally do Gandalf and Middle Earth. Just use these house rules...

(page of blather)

In honor of D&D 4e, we really need an update to this article to be consistent with the latest rule changes.

Someone should write something along the lines of "Superman was only a 1st level fighter".  

Quote from: jgants;229465In honor of D&D 4e, we really need an update to this article to be consistent with the latest rule changes.

I'd consider doing it, but I just got the PHB, and have yet to get the rest of the books. My initial assessment, after giving a fairly cursory look/skim of the PHB, is that while it would be fairly easy to keep Gandalf and the other "big guns" at 3rd/4th/5th level, the hobbits would be harder to depict, especially at the beginning of the story. At least, in my opinion. The classes of 4e seem more powerful at first level than the hobbits seemed to me at the opening of the book, and there aren't any NPC classes in 4e. It might be worthwhile to use 3e's NPC classes, or strip away some of the powers/abilities 4e's classes have at first level, and have them progress through one or two "zero levels" before hitting first.