Quote from: RPGPundit on July 21, 2022, 07:22:25 PM
Background: Port Blacksand p.71

Armor rules: Dungeoneer p.163

"Different and unique initiative system" means nothing.
"different and unique encumbrance system" means nothing

Magical misfires: Dungeoneer p.200

"Completely different system for character advancement" means nothing

Wow! I thought you'd argue semantics OR move the goal posts, but you did both. And still managed to be about 87% wrong. That's almost impressive.

1. Blacksand introduces a sort of new trait here, Social Scale. It is used much in the same way that the other traits (Skill, Stamina and Luck) are used. Yes, it does say that the new trait "applies to a Hero's background". But this is a trait, and not in any way analogous to the 36 different Backgrounds, which are simple classes, each with their own Ability, that are part of Troika!'s character generation. In trying to conflate these two things, you are either desperately grasping at straws, or being deliberately dishonest.

2. Okay, I can kind of give you this one. Dungeoneer says that Armour is already taken into account. Every Hero is considered to be "Armoured". There are no bonuses for wearing it, and no different types of Armour. This is what I meant when I said AFF had no Armor rules. Troika! has three different levels of Armor. Not very granular, but in AFF the guy in Plate is exactly the same as the guy in Leather. There is a penalty for removing Armour in AFF, though. Weird. Shields are given a rudimentary set of rules. All shields are considered equal in value in both games, though Troika! has the option of using the shield as a weapon, where AFF does not. In any event, "Everyone has Armour, and it's all the same, so there are no stats or bonuses for it unless you take it off" is basically the extent of AFF's Armour rules, so I'm calling this an edge case.

3. "Different and unique initiative system means nothing" - translation: you can't refute it, so you're dismissing it out of hand. Semantical horseshit. AFF largely handwaves initiative, assuming simultaneous attacks in most cases and leaving the rest to GM fiat. The fact is, Troika!. which you claimed was a direct copy of FF/AFF, uses a totally different initiative system, one I've not seen anywhere else, putting the lie to your claim that Troika! is just a copy of its parent game.

4. "Different and unique encumbrance system means nothing" - same rebuttal as that for Initiative. Totally different system, and not one I've seen elsewhere. That actually does mean something, it means that, counter to your claims, Troika! did not just copy FF/AFF.

5. On this point, you are correct, and I was wrong. Dungeoneer does indeed have a table for magical misfires, called in both games The Oops! Table. Troika! has over twice as many entries in its table, but that does not change the fact that I was wrong here. Point to you.

6. "Completely different system for character advancement means nothing" - Again, more semantical horseshit. Initiative, Encumbrance and Advancement are all important mechanical innovations, and the fact that two of these seem to be unique to Troika! is significant.

Try harder.

Quote is not edit

All osr is fake; only DnD is real.

When I say that those things "mean nothing", what I mean is that it is a replacement for another mechanic, not a mechanic that was missing in the original game. Saying "my game uses a different encumbrance system" doesn't mean that the old system didn't have encumbrance, or that the new system is better than the old.

When *I* say that things "mean nothing", what I mean is that they mean nothing: neither nothing more nor less.