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Pen & Paper Roleplaying Central => Pen and Paper Roleplaying Games (RPGs) Discussion => Topic started by: obryn on May 07, 2008, 01:44:58 AM

Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: obryn on May 07, 2008, 01:44:58 AM
So, with my extra money from the government, I decided to buy some more dice.  I mean, I can't buy 4e yet, I'm done with 3e for now, there haven't been any new SWSE products in months, and I basically have everything I want for WFRP2.  I want to get something gaming-related that I'll actually use... so - DICE!

I got my first set of Gamescience dice this year at Gen Con.  I've seen Lou Zocchi's ads since my earliest days of gaming - when I saw his "dice stacks" picture in both Dragon and some Distributor catalog.  I stayed away before last year because, frankly, Gamescience dice are a bit pricier than Chessex and whatnot.

Anyways, since then I've used them for everything.  I love 'em.  They're my best-looking dice and my absolute favorite.

So, I wanted to get more.

The thing is, it's damned tough to find them!

I couldn't find complete sets anywhere outside of eBay, so instead I went to AdvancingHordes.com - and whaddaya know, they're closing and short on stock.  Sigh.  I contented myself with a few d20's, a few d10 pairs, and 20 of the B&J "vintage" dice that AdvancingHordes dug up.

So... back to my main point.  Gamescience dice.  Anyone use them?  Anyone love them?  For that matter, does anyone hate them?

-O
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: Aos on May 07, 2008, 01:53:12 AM
this place appears to have some:
the third page of the Gamescience Dice section has several available complete sets.
http://www.g2ch.com/
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: Pierce Inverarity on May 07, 2008, 02:10:00 AM
I've bought Zocchi dice from G2, they're good people. Noble Knight has some, too. Naturally, I possess their Traveller dice and a set of opaque vomit-colored polygons, both of which I love to death.
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: J Arcane on May 07, 2008, 02:18:33 AM
Stiggybaby has lots of 'em, and cheap.  I intend to get some myself soon.
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: Zachary The First on May 07, 2008, 08:48:56 AM
Here's (http://www.advancinghordes.com/about_gamescience.php) where I go.
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: stu2000 on May 07, 2008, 10:02:31 AM
Chessex bought the molds, but they don't use the same plastic. If you shoot a Chessex Gamescience die from a wrist rocket at a basement wall, it will break. Old Gamescience dice didn't. I don't think wrist rockets or basement walls have improved that much, so it must be the dice.

I don't advise shooting dice at walls.


You could put an eye out.
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: Dr Rotwang! on May 07, 2008, 01:33:52 PM
Lookin' kinda pricey.  What gives?

EDIT: Must be the plastic.
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: Koltar on May 07, 2008, 02:12:51 PM
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Lookin' kinda pricey.  What gives?

EDIT: Must be the plastic.

Maybe Lou Zocchi's rent got raised?


- Ed C.
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: Pierce Inverarity on May 07, 2008, 02:15:11 PM
That's Colonel Zocchi for you, Klingon.
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: J Arcane on May 07, 2008, 02:18:58 PM
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!Lookin' kinda pricey.  What gives?

EDIT: Must be the plastic.
Gamescience dice are purportedly cut to much higher standards of probability variance than most dice.  

Basically, the reason the average gamer dice tend to seem streaky or less random than they should be, is because poor design throws off the balance of the die, and thus affects the probabilities of the numbers.

Gamescience dice are supposed to be designed to more precise standards, thus ensuring a die that is as close to true random as possible.  This is for instance, why the edges are so sharp, and why they had to clip off the corners on the d4, lest it become a lethal device.  Statistically speaking, they're supposed to be even better than casino dice.  

That's the pitch any way, and that, plus the rarity of them, somewhat accounts for the high prices some retailers charge for them.
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: Koltar on May 07, 2008, 02:22:13 PM
Quote from: Pierce InverarityThat's Colonel Zocchi for you, Klingon.

He didn't make a big deal out of that when I met him. Mostly he was happy that someone was browsing his booth at Gencon.



- Ed C.
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: GrayPumpkin on May 07, 2008, 03:05:25 PM
My only problem with gamescience dice, and I own a fair amount of them, is that the ink doesn't stay on and after a few months you have to be filling them in again, which can get to be monotonous.
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: obryn on May 07, 2008, 07:53:11 PM
Quote from: Zachary The FirstHere's (http://www.advancinghordes.com/about_gamescience.php) where I go.
Yep, but sadly they're the ones that are going out of business...

-O
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: Zachary The First on May 07, 2008, 07:59:49 PM
Quote from: obrynYep, but sadly they're the ones that are going out of business...

-O

I know.  May 31. :(
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: GameDaddy on May 07, 2008, 08:45:30 PM
Quote from: obrynSo, with my extra money from the government, I decided to buy some more dice.  I mean, I can't buy 4e yet, I'm done with 3e for now, there haven't been any new SWSE products in months, and I basically have everything I want for WFRP2.  I want to get something gaming-related that I'll actually use... so - DICE!

I got my first set of Gamescience dice this year at Gen Con.  I've seen Lou Zocchi's ads since my earliest days of gaming - when I saw his "dice stacks" picture in both Dragon and some Distributor catalog.  I stayed away before last year because, frankly, Gamescience dice are a bit pricier than Chessex and whatnot.

Anyways, since then I've used them for everything.  I love 'em.  They're my best-looking dice and my absolute favorite.

So, I wanted to get more.

The thing is, it's damned tough to find them!

So... back to my main point.  Gamescience dice.  Anyone use them?  Anyone love them?  For that matter, does anyone hate them?

Love em, Gonna have to order more since i lost my baby crown royal bag with most of my gamescience dice, meh... eight weeks now to Origins, I'll just get them from the man. For those of you that won't be able to attend and buy direct, I obtained permission from Lou to provide his contact info a few years back for those folks that want to purchase his most excellent gamescience precision polyhedra dice.


Lou Zocchi
7604 Newton Drive
N. Biloxi
Mississippi 39532-2830
(228) 392-4177

If you have trouble getting ahold of him, just let me know, and I'll pick up some extra dice sets at Origins... been meaning to make a big buy anyway to stock up some.
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: Koltar on May 08, 2008, 10:43:20 AM
Gamedaddy,

 I want an assortment of blues and greens - ALL types of dice....and some black 6 siders with red pits or numbers to be my tRAVELLER dice.


 Or...heck - I could try to get up there myself this year , its only 2 hours north of here . (ORIGINS that is)


- Ed C.
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: stu2000 on May 08, 2008, 06:47:04 PM
Wasn't it Lou that made the old Traveller dice? Black with the distinctive sunburst? Do they still distribute those?
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: Pierce Inverarity on May 08, 2008, 06:55:28 PM
Yes--I got mine last year, from G2 IIRC.
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: Zachary The First on May 09, 2008, 08:19:00 AM
Quote from: stu2000Wasn't it Lou that made the old Traveller dice? Black with the distinctive sunburst? Do they still distribute those?

Yep.   Got my pair.

I also got my pair of "tablewreckers" from Col. Lou at Gen Con--pewter percentile dice--clearly not the clean design of Dwarven Bones from Crystal Caste.  These are rough-hewn, ugly, and mean-looking.  At they destroy my players on crits every time.  They covet, fear, and hate them all at once. :D
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: Engine on May 09, 2008, 06:38:49 PM
Okay, I gotta ask: do people actually have problems with the randomness of their dice? I've done some informal statistical tests and never noticed anything out-of-the-ordinary, but perhaps I just happen to have some dice with reasonably good weight distribution. I just can't quite imagine anyone thinking, "You know, these dice aren't quite random enough."

Although, at our table, we do have one player, now that I think of it, who rolls more 1s on 20-sided dice than I've ever seen anything like in my life. It's...statistically noticeable. To people not even in the same room.
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: J Arcane on May 09, 2008, 08:14:06 PM
Quote from: EngineOkay, I gotta ask: do people actually have problems with the randomness of their dice? I've done some informal statistical tests and never noticed anything out-of-the-ordinary, but perhaps I just happen to have some dice with reasonably good weight distribution. I just can't quite imagine anyone thinking, "You know, these dice aren't quite random enough."

Although, at our table, we do have one player, now that I think of it, who rolls more 1s on 20-sided dice than I've ever seen anything like in my life. It's...statistically noticeable. To people not even in the same room.
My last game I rolled over a 10 on the d20 like three times over the course of a ten hour long marathon D&D session.
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: obryn on May 09, 2008, 11:59:07 PM
Quote from: EngineOkay, I gotta ask: do people actually have problems with the randomness of their dice? I've done some informal statistical tests and never noticed anything out-of-the-ordinary, but perhaps I just happen to have some dice with reasonably good weight distribution. I just can't quite imagine anyone thinking, "You know, these dice aren't quite random enough."

Although, at our table, we do have one player, now that I think of it, who rolls more 1s on 20-sided dice than I've ever seen anything like in my life. It's...statistically noticeable. To people not even in the same room.
Since dice bias won't show up in just a few trials, I doubt very many people will notice the their dice aren't rolling evenly.  Figuring it out probably requires actual statistical analysis.

That's not to say it won't make a difference, mind you.  However, the truer-to-random is probably least among the reasons I like gamescience dice.  The appearance, material, history, and Lou himself all figure more prominently.

-O
Title: Gamescience Dice!
Post by: GameDaddy on May 11, 2008, 02:53:24 AM
Quote from: obrynSince dice bias won't show up in just a few trials, I doubt very many people will notice the their dice aren't rolling evenly.  Figuring it out probably requires actual statistical analysis.

Lou just stacks his dice. If they won't stack up evenly, they are not true polyhedrals and won't roll with an even probability. Works every time to get you dice where you will need statistical analysis to determine how far off the deviations are. If the dice do stack evenly, the deviations are so minor as to be inconsequential as far as RPG gaming goes.

I think if I can find one of his catalogs, I can post a demonstration of this.