Quote from: kryystI love WFRP 2nd ed.  It's my current favorite RGP of all time.  But if you think this is true you are sadly mistaken.  It may very well be 2nd in popularity to D&D  in terms of how well known it is.  But in terms of sales to suggest it'd give D&D a run for it's money is laughable.  If you put WFRP 1st ed and 2nd together it's not even a blip on the D&D juggernaut.  Hell I know players that love GW's mini games but won't buy the RPG, favouring D&D instead.

I agree with you, WFRP 2e has only a fraction of the sales of D&D 3.5, but why is that? I think it's advertising, or rather the lack of advertising for the rpg (and the lack of levels). And I was only saying it could give D&D a run for its money if it was marketed PROPERLY (which it isn't).

GW isn't even trying, and that is a mistake.

Quote from: Sacrificial LambI agree with you, WFRP 2e has only a fraction of the sales of D&D 3.5, but why is that? I think it's advertising, or rather the lack of advertising for the rpg (and the lack of levels). And I was only saying it could give D&D a run for its money if it was marketed PROPERLY (which it isn't).

GW isn't even trying, and that is a mistake.

Sorry just not going to happen.  Even if they marketed the hell out of it it's not going to do anything and they'd probably pay more in marketing then the extra sales they'd gain.  You have D&D fans and you have 'other' fans you can put a dent into the 'other' fans but you just won't sway away the core D&D fans.  Not sure if you remember or not but when WFRP 2nd ed came out one of the top complaints about it was that it wasn't being released in D20.

Quote from: kryystSorry just not going to happen.  Even if they marketed the hell out of it it's not going to do anything and they'd probably pay more in marketing then the extra sales they'd gain.  You have D&D fans and you have 'other' fans you can put a dent into the 'other' fans but you just won't sway away the core D&D fans.  Not sure if you remember or not but when WFRP 2nd ed came out one of the top complaints about it was that it wasn't being released in D20.

This relates to a point I made many, many pages ago. All GW need do is devote some shelf space to it in their stores, have the staff talk it up and run some demos. It'd be comparatively cheap to market, and therefore low risk. For a small initial outlay the game would be exposed to tens of thousands of young gamers across hundreds of dedicated stores worldwide who've already bought into the Warhammer mythology. Even Wizards couldn't compete with that.

Of course it might not take off at all, but for a company who's profits are shrinking at a near catastrophic rate it's exactly the kind of thing I think they need to be considering.

Quote from: DrewThis relates to a point I made many, many pages ago. All GW need do is devote some shelf space to it in their stores, have the staff talk it up and run some demos. It'd be comparatively cheap to market, and therefore low risk. For a small initial outlay the game would be exposed to tens of thousands of young gamers across hundreds of dedicated stores worldwide who've already bought into the Warhammer mythology. Even Wizards couldn't compete with that.

Of course it might not take off at all, but for a company who's profits are shrinking at a near catastrophic rate it's exactly the kind of thing I think they need to be considering.

While I don't necessarily agree that putting the RPG into Games Workshop stores is going to have a significant impact one way or another.  I think they should for a few reasons.  

1) It creates brand solidarity so that people have a 1 stop shop if they are looking for all things Warhammer.
2) Potential to lure RPG fans to the mini-game and vice versa.
3) It costs them nothing to do

Quote from: kryyst1) It creates brand solidarity so that people have a 1 stop shop if they are looking for all things Warhammer.
2) Potential to lure RPG fans to the mini-game and vice versa.
3) It costs them nothing to do

Pretty much. Any rpg company you care to mention would kill for that kind of exposure.

Quote from: kryyst3) It costs them nothing to do

I'd definitely love to see GW have RPGs in their stores again. I can remember being very disappointed when they stopped selling them, so many years ago. And even if it was only BI games, that would still be great.

However, it's gotta be said: it would most definitely NOT cost GW NOTHING to sell WFRP in their stores. Beyond the obvious stock factors (storage, sales, accounting, support, promotion, etc, all of which are genuine profit issues), they don't publish the game. They don't even write the game. It would not be a non-cost process.

Besides all that, it's also a non-issue. GW decided a long time ago that any possible returns from RPGs were far too limited for their business plans. Sadly, they are right. In fact, that they actually licenced the property at all seems rather gracious, in the grand corporate scheme of things.

- Q

Quote from: jrientsTraveller once occupied the second chair held later by Vampire and Exalted, but that was a long time ago.

Speaking of a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, the most popular sci-fi RPG I can name right now isn't set in anything resembling a grim future of only war, and the dudes in heavy armor are generally the bad guys.

:rolleyes:

The Star Wars movies were completely based off video games.

I don't know about you, but I've been jonesing for an RPG based on the Atari 2600 Empire Strikes Back game for decades.

-O

Quote from: obryn:rolleyes:

The Star Wars movies were completely based off video games.

I don't know about you, but I've been jonesing for an RPG based on the Atari 2600 Empire Strikes Back game for decades.

-O

"Use the force, Luke."

Quote from: obryn:rolleyes:

The Star Wars movies were completely based off video games.

I don't know about you, but I've been jonesing for an RPG based on the Atari 2600 Empire Strikes Back game for decades.

-O

 Hardly!!!

 When STAR WARS:ANH and TESB came out - there weren't that many Video Games. I know , I was a teenager then. What video games there were - were mainly coin op.  I remember one coin-op game my friends and used to play - simple  white on black screen display , but everybody you blew up an enemy starship it would spin and look like a Starfleet ship from STAR TREK. (NOT Star Wars)

- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarHardly!!!

 When STAR WARS:ANH and TESB came out - there weren't that many Video Games. I know , I was a teenager then. What video games there were - were mainly coin op.  I remember one coin-op game my friends and used to play - simple  white on black screen display , but everybody you blew up an enemy starship it would spin and look like a Starfleet ship from STAR TREK. (NOT Star Wars)

- Ed C.

Yeah, and thank God they made a TV show from those great Star Trek arcade games!!

Those vector-drawn ones had the best cutscenes.

-O

Quote from: QuireI'd definitely love to see GW have RPGs in their stores again. I can remember being very disappointed when they stopped selling them, so many years ago. And even if it was only BI games, that would still be great.

However, it's gotta be said: it would most definitely NOT cost GW NOTHING to sell WFRP in their stores. Beyond the obvious stock factors (storage, sales, accounting, support, promotion, etc, all of which are genuine profit issues), they don't publish the game. They don't even write the game. It would not be a non-cost process.

Besides all that, it's also a non-issue. GW decided a long time ago that any possible returns from RPGs were far too limited for their business plans. Sadly, they are right. In fact, that they actually licenced the property at all seems rather gracious, in the grand corporate scheme of things.

- Q

Yep.

Sadly when they stopped designing role playing games and licensed the properties out to other companies it was made clear that RPGS as a whole is not worth their time.

The profit margin for miniatures is higher and they would rather have the space for things that make them more more.

That's why when I have gone into several game stores the game tables were being used for Warhammer 40k, rpgs seemed to be an afterthought.

Quote from: Blue DevilYep.

Sadly when they stopped designing role playing games and licensed the properties out to other companies it was made clear that RPGS as a whole is not worth their time.

The profit margin for miniatures is higher and they would rather have the space for things that make them more more.

That's why when I have gone into several game stores the game tables were being used for Warhammer 40k, rpgs seemed to be an afterthought.

Yeah, WFRP was always seen as the poor cousin, which is why they stopped supporting it entirely.

The irony is that whilst the vast majority of 40k and WFB customers from the 80's were replaced with an ever younger, ever changing set of fans WFRP players like myself are still around. It may not have been the most profitable revenue stream, but lifetime custom is something that few businessess with sense disregard.

Quote from: Blue DevilSadly when they stopped designing role playing games and licensed the properties out to other companies it was made clear that RPGS as a whole is not worth their time.

The profit margin for miniatures is higher and they would rather have the space for things that make them more more.

That's why when I have gone into several game stores the game tables were being used for Warhammer 40k, rpgs seemed to be an afterthought.

The really ironic thing about this is the huge success that wotc has had with their D&D minis game.  Rpg players clearly drive the sales- not players of the minis game itself.

Quote from: DrewName five rpgs based off 'enormously popular' video games that have gone on to dominate the tabletop market.

World of Warcraft d20
Everquest RPG
Starcraft d20
Diablo d20
...


Don't you know that all of those rpgs are so popular that they've below your elitist radar? Everyone is playing them!

Quote from: WilWorld of Warcraft d20
Everquest RPG
Starcraft d20
Diablo d20
...


Don't you know that all of those rpgs are so popular that they've below your elitist radar? Everyone is playing them!

Heh. I direct your attention to post #242....