Quote from: Erik BoielleComputer games are the principle culture of almost everyone under 35 these days.

Even if that were true (Which I doubt.  Everyone under 35 is a LOT of the world's population.) looking to computer games for how to improve and RPG will only end in tears.  Because everything both media do, the computer can do faster and probably better.

Keep in mind that I don't disagree with your basic idea that many (most) gamers like to kick ass and that on its face WFRP seems written in opposition to that.  But man, you sure do seem to be twisting strangely to support that basic point.

Quote from: Herr ArnulfeAnd do you know for certain that DH doesn't support playing an Inquisitor?

I think it does.

But the default is lackeys, so all the adventures are gonna be for lackeys, its not gonna have the kind of support that Vampire has for playing Vampires that Vampire has, only for playing inquisitors (if you take my meaning - in OWoD the first thing you do is choose what kind of vampire you want to be - do I want to be a cultured vampire who hangs around in bars, or an animalisic vampire who hangs around in bars etc. Its all about your place in Vampire society, and helping you make a character who is gonna make an interesting vampire) and in the final analysis, everyone is gonna play lackeys.

All because of a misguided belief that No One Really Likes That Stupid Games Workshop High Fantasy Macho Shit (arn't I smart fap fap fap).

--

Quotelooking to computer games for how to improve and RPG will only end in tears. Because everything both media do, the computer can do faster and probably better.

Well, it comes from musing on a comment someone made about Dungeons and Dragons not competing with other roleplaying games but instead with anything that people can spend time on. Which means video games, these days.

I think the main selling points of roleplaying over video games are:-

1: Its social - you do it with your mates, face to face
2: You can do your own dialogue
3: The world takes more notice of what you do

But, I mean, the video games I'm playing at the moment are Onimusha: Dawn of Dreams and Shinobido. I like these stories. I like characters like Soki - Oni of the Ash and Goh the Crow. I like the interaction they have with people in the cutscenes.

And I mean, these guys arn't exactly unusual in the computer game world.

I reckon these dudes are the 'Heros' of current likly roleplayers. Er, I'm old enough to dig lara Croft* and Grove Champion** the most, but I can't imagine The Youth don't love theirs as much.

So, in essence, if you deny people the ability to play these kinds of characters in these kinds of stories, not only do you need to find people who arn't playing computer games RIGHT NOW, you almost need people who ACTIVELY DON'T LIKE VIDEO GAME CULTURE, which is a dwindling source, right?

That is a tangent of my own though, although I think it shows my working.

*Tomb Raider. No bloody II. No bloody III and Certainly no bloody angel of darkness:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a0FosttxRY

**And oh god did I love Interstate 76:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JCGZFQZkdc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1itNvx7CsY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ9JuGBR1Ro

Quote from: Erik BoielleAnd I mean, these guys arn't exactly unusual in the computer game world.

    ??      ??
So, in essence, if you deny people the ability to play these kinds of characters in these kinds of stories, not only do you need to find people who arn't playing computer games RIGHT NOW, you almost need people who ACTIVELY DON'T LIKE VIDEO GAME CULTURE, which is a dwindling source, right?

 WRONG

 NOT "everyone" is playing fricking computer games - even those younger than 35.

 I actively don't like video game culture.

...and no that isn't a dwindling source.
Those online "WoW" kind of things eat up a lot of time and money. What I see more of is people trying to switch away from those or lessen the amount of time that they spend online with those things.
Some couples almost break up over one of the partners spending too much timne online on those games - uinless they figure  out a way to play then together.

 At least with a roleplaying "ata table" type game a couple could play it together, at the same time. The same is true for WARHAMMER miniatures at a table.
Remember the young lady I mentioned earlier in the thread? I believe she plays with her boyfriend and their friends once a month. Its something they do together.  (She happened to stop in the store just before my shift was ending tonight.)

Erik B., I think you are working with a lot of assumptions that just arn't true.

- Ed C.

Sorry, a little late to the party. Brief foray back onto topic...

I knew a chap (in the UK) who worked in the local GW store. He was a big fan of everything GW (and was a good evangelist too, got me playing Necromunda and a few other things) and after a couple of years he ended up as the manager of the store. That's when it all went a bit wrong. He never really said why he left the store and the hobby but he wasn't happy with the way it went.

I think it was not the big evil corporation but the change that happens when your hobby that you enjoy to relax in your own way becomes your job and livelihood. He connected GW with fun because that was his hobby. When he was simply a drone at the store (painting, working the tills, demonstrating games) he was really doing his hobby. When he got to see the workings of GW, he must have felt quite disappointed that behind his fun hobby was something unscrupulous.

I don't have enough san left to continue participating in this thread.

Quote from: BalbinusI don't have enough san left to continue participating in this thread.

It veered off topic and became The Comedy Stylings of Erik Boille a long time ago...:rolleyes:

Quote from: Herr ArnulfeThe situations aren't really comparable though. In WFRP, even the flea-ridden Charcoal Burners get to wander around getting into trouble wherever they please. They aren't subordinate to a GMPC. And do you know for certain that DH doesn't support playing an Inquisitor?

If you can't then their potential sales just halved. It's like that LUG star trek game where you had to fudge the rules just to allow players to play the sort of characters the game is meant to emulate, not Joey Redshirt.

Dark Heresy has the pc's starting off as part of an Inquisitor's retinue, performing various different missions at the behest of their master. With time and experience they can eventually attain the rank of Inquisitor, although it'll be a tough and deadly goal that only are capable of attaining.

Alternatively you could just start the game with experienced characters who are already in the Inquisitor career.

Quote from: DrewWith time and experience they can eventually attain the rank of Inquisitor, although it'll be a tough and deadly goal that only are capable of attaining.

Or, yknow, I can load up the playstation and be Solid Snake.

In fact, I think I will.





Excuse me.

Quote from: Erik BoielleOr, yknow, I can load up the playstation and be Solid Snake.

In fact, I think I will.





Excuse me.

Or you could get some exercise, or kiss a girl, or do any one of a million things that have fuck all to do with Dark Heresy.

Quote from: DrewOr you could get some exercise, or kiss a girl, or do any one of a million things that have fuck all to do with Dark Heresy.

Well exactly. But if you want to play the game you have to sell the game to your players.

And you are in competition with DnD or Metal Gear Solid, or going to the pub or whatever.

Quote from: Erik BoielleWell exactly. But if you want to play the game you have to sell the game to your players.

And you are in competition with DnD or Metal Gear Solid, or going to the pub or whatever.

...or you could state the bleedin' obvious.

Quote from: Erik BoielleWell exactly. But if you want to play the game you have to sell the game to your players.

And you are in competition with DnD or Metal Gear Solid, or going to the pub or whatever.

You are a bit of an idiot aren't you.

You do realise that those other activities are vastly more popular than roleplaying. Right?

And even within roleplaying, DnD and Vampire and Exalted are vastly more popular than anything else.

Sure, in the long run roleplaying is gonna disappear but I see no reason to make it worse than it needs to be. Especially for one of the few names who might be able to bring new people in.

I just don't think its a good idea to end up with things that not only ARN'T video games, but arn't even about the same things that enormously popular video games are about.

Quote from: Erik Boielle
I just don't think

I cut out all the useless parts to narrow in on what you really are trying to say through all that verbal diarrhea.  The existence of RPG's are not hinging on one game despite whatever pedestal you have set it up on and then promptly knocked it off of.  Video game fans are not going to go and snap up the RPG because it's based on similar content any more then the are going to rush down to their local hobby store and start buying mini's because they like Dawn of War.  Get your head out of your ass and stop trolling.  Dark Heresy has an audience it's as simple as that.  Changing the game one way or another is going to pick up fans and loose others.  You can't base popularity of a game, yet released, based on the braying of internet fanboys.