QuoteThe fact that you regard WFRP (especially v2) as de-emphasizing combat only shows that you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

That you think it doesn't shows you have never played a computer game.

Possibly you have heard of them. Its a huge industry, bigger than movies. While StS is a half dozen whinging old men...

Quote from: Erik BoielleThat you think it doesn't shows you have never played a computer game.

Possibly you have heard of them. Its a huge industry, bigger than movies. While StS is a half dozen whinging old men...

Computer games are far better at handling combat than PnP games anyway, so it's really not a valid comparison.

But you can do your own dialog in cutscenes in RPGs.

I like to think of it as:-

You can play a fat twat whose boat sinks, or, you can load up the playstation and be Solid Snake.

So, not only do you need to get people to give up on the graphics, you also need them to give up on being cool. Possibly there are some who don't like the cool characters in video games, comics and novels, but, when it comes down to it, niche market, and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

Quote from: Erik BoielleYou can play a fat twat whose boat sinks, or, you can load up the playstation and be Solid Snake.

I think you'll be a much happier man/boy if you just stick with your Playstation.

Quote from: Herr ArnulfeI think you'll be a much happier man/boy if you just stick with your Playstation.

See, if only you could come to terms with being a lunatic fringe, you could cream off burnouts from the Great Unwashed Masses.

Unfortunatly, a refusal to compromise or shut the fuck up dooms the hobby to a faster decline while at the same time selfishly denying a lot of people a lot of fun (and, not to mention, the nice people at BI a good chunk of income).

The fringe needs the mainstream.

Quote from: SettembriniErik is right about WFRP.

GW artwork (40k especially) is all about testosterone laden brit-fascism and violence porn.

WFRP is about...rat-catchers and Cthulhoid entities called Zahnarzt (german for dentist).

There is a severe disconnect, which you can see in the disconnect between players of the respective franchise.

Now, for us RPG folks, WFRP is terrific. but it is so, in spite of being set in the GW Universe, not because of.

Yup, Erik is correct both that WFRP and WFB are very different animals and he is also correct IMO that WFRP would sell better were it more like WFB.

As it is, I think it moved closer to WFB with second edition, but not enough to generate those extra sales while still being enough to piss off the old guard.  If they were doing it just for the loot (which I don't remotely think they were) they should have gone much further than they did, as it is I think they did the minimum to bring it into line with the wargame that they could and even that was too much for many.

Erik is also correct that rpg sales will not save GW, they are just way too insignificant.  I do think though rpg sales could have been used as a means to lure rpgers into the minis hobby more effectively and I think they could have been used as a means of strengthening brand loyalty.

But Erik is not interested in nuance, he's not interested in looking at whether rpgs could have been used beneficially by GW, he'd rather caricature that as saying that people think GW would have been saved by rpg sales because he can rebut that but he can't deal with reasoned argument.

Hell, he can't deal much with unreasoned argument.  He's still sore of course that Cyberpunk v3 was such a miserable piece of crap that is conspicuous only by its utter failure in the market.  Now GW is going down the tubes too, and that is also to much for him.

Past performance does not prove future performance, GW was a great and well run business, was.

Balbinus: what do you think BI could have done to bring WFRP more in line with WFB?

Quotewhat do you think BI could have done to bring WFRP more in line with WFB?

It's a hoary old argument, but



You shoulda know it was coming.

Actually, these are better:-

http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/video/easterEggs/WAR_Promo_081606.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3pOljQqvX8

Yep, I knew it was coming. Of course, you'll now fail to explain in actual words why WFRP can't do that picture.

In part because some knobend on the forum would tell you you were doing it wrong. Tell me I'm mistaken.

That said, the chances of getting a starting character who is a complete wuss and insufficent healing would likly limit your ability to act like  characters from video games.

Better if default dudes act like the fanbase would expect.

Quote from: Erik BoielleIn part because some knobend on the forum would tell you you were doing it wrong. Tell me I'm mistaken.

That said, the chances of getting a starting character who is a complete wuss and insufficent healing would likly limit your ability to act like  characters from video games.

Better if default dudes act like the fanbase would expect.

Never mind that most characters in WFB die in droves, generally have crappy healing and otherwise don't act a hell of a lot like video game characters? Sure.

Actually, crappy healing aside, I played in two Warhammer campaigns under the same GM. The first one saw fate points slipping away to the toon of two or three a session. I lost a fate point every freaking game. Not cool.

The second, however, saw the lowly scum of the earth (the PC's) slaughter all that opposed them, ranging from some sort of vampire thing in an abandoned tower, a necromancer's horde of skeletons and a really nasty ghost.  We didn't have half the magic of the first group, and at least on my part we weren't half as prepared for combat (I went from a super strong, but somewhat weedy militia man to a really pathetic gambler).  Damned if we didn't feel fairly Video Gamey killing all that shit. We even explored a dungeon of sorts... surviving the mess that wiped out nearly all the NPC's by the simple expedent of being better killers than the bad thing.






Oh, and that picture sucks eight shades of dog's balls. Least. Dynamic. Duel. EVAR!

Quote from: SpikeNever mind that most characters in WFB die in droves, generally have crappy healing and otherwise don't act a hell of a lot like video game characters?

Its worth noting they always get better for the next battle.

Characters never die - they just fall over and crawl off to lick their wounds. Says so in White Dwarf often enough.

--

See, I mean THESE are warhammer:-

http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/podcast/files/WAR-VotM_2007-03_Login.html

http://www.warhammeronline.com/english/media/video/files/Marauder-exclusive.html

It not actually my idea of warhammer, which is far more blanchian and stylish, but I dunno - some mutherfuckers are always trying to iceskate uphill.

QuoteOh, and that picture sucks eight shades of dog's balls. Least. Dynamic. Duel. EVAR!

I just like it because it has Unlikly Middenheim in the background, and has a big war coming down to single combat between the leaders of the armies - things almost guaranteed to start the geriatric half dozen clucking like angry hens.

But, I mean you get the idea:-

See, those are better. Still not the greatest in the world, but better.

That first pic? Yeah, looked like the two central characters were bad actors holding a pose waiting for the director to come back from lunch and shout 'action'.

Seriously.

Quote from: SpikeSee, those are better. Still not the greatest in the world, but better.

Hey - its warhammer - they got me young.

I think its the muscles.

Quotelooked like the two central characters were bad actors holding a pose waiting for the director to come back from lunch and shout 'action'.

I've spent much though pondering how to work the classic 'pose and grimace' warhammer moneyshot in to gaming - in a computer game you could have a special button you push where time slows down and your guys line up like they are on the cover of White Dwarf and grimace and wave their axes in the air before doing a special attack.

In short, I think its part of the charm :-)