How do you feel about games that have a complete main book but no supplementary material; no adventures or sourcebooks?

Does knowing that a game has no supplementary material turn you off from using it, or just the contrary?

I don't mind a game that doesn't have any rules supplements.  However, I think it's important for games to have adventures/modules.

Quote from: RPGPundit;811851How do you feel about games that have a complete main book but no supplementary material; no adventures or sourcebooks?

Does knowing that a game has no supplementary material turn you off from using it, or just the contrary?

The contrary. I like making up my own adventures, and sooner or later the supplementary material introduces something that damages the core game in some way; e.g., psionics in OD&D, or Unearthed Arcana in 1e AD&D. You can ban it, but the expectations are already there among the players (especially the ones who paid for that supplementary material).

That assumes that the main book(s) can really be called complete.

I've written games with supplements, including adventures, as well as those with no supplements. More and more, though, I'm writing full games out of what would once have been supplements. No need to buy the main game if what you like is the particular setting.

-clash

I like rules options and ideas. I'm a sandbox GM, so I don't really use adventures. I love ready to go maps, locations, NPCs, and the like.

For a game line, having new ideas using existing structures would be ideal for me.

Take 5e for example. I would really like a supplement that adds 3 new archetypes to each class with some new interesting class abilities. Or perhaps a supplement that emulates a specific genre with new classes/archetypes to fill useful roles within that genre. Also, a magic book with new spells, or expanded rituals with ideas on how to increase power based on spell components (with lists of those spell components). Stuff that would be useful to expand the game without adding complexity or too many options. Stuff that's optional and will not break the current game.

I will also pick up stand-alone games that don't have supplements, but I find those games tend to have a smaller scope or purpose. Broader games tend to benefit from some supplements.

Generally I prefer self-contained games, and a supplement treadmill means I won't be buying.*  That's one reason I'm not jumping on 5e; despite otherwise liking the base game, I can be pretty sure my local player base for 5e is going to want to play with all the books, ever, so running a retro-clone is basically a way of screening out guys who'd otherwise be showing up with new books and character options I wasn't planning on using.

You can draw a distinction between splatbooks and adventure modules.  Adventures are probably more useful on those occasions when you do get to run them.  But that probably comes up less often than class books.

*A partial exception is L5R 4e, but there, they did a pretty good job of giving you a full game in the core book, and keeping the core options attractive and the supplements truly optional.  Nor do I have the full line of everything published, though I did get a few supplements after reading reviews.

Self-containment is the gold standard, as far as I'm concerned. I won't necessarily stay away from a given game because of extraneous splatbooks, but I may be less inclined to buy it and I generally ignore most/all supplementary material regardless.

I rarely buy splats. I agree that self-contained games are the "gold standard" and that's what I want in a game BUT apparently people love to buy splats.

Quote from: rawma;811856... sooner or later the supplementary material introduces something that damages the core game in some way.

Correct.

Example becomes core, option become expectation, expansion becomes imposition.

I buy games without supplements. These days they have to be very good though, or have something I don't already have in a game.

Some examples of games in my collection that don't have supplements, or that didn't have supplements when they were first released include;

0D&D (Yes I can see you rolling your eyes... When I bought the white bookset there was nothing else available at the FLGS... just some JG supplements, but nothing else from TSR.)

Spycraft - 1e was standalone for I'm thinking about two years.
Terra Incognita - FUDGE Steampunk game. 15 years old now and still no supplements.

Gamma World - Yup, I have the 1e set with the US continental map. No supplements came with that though, Had to make my own campaign setting ...Colorado.

Fudge... Lets see... made a new homebrew Battelstar Galactica Campaign guide for this this... Have also used Fudge for a custom AWI/Seven Years War wargame/Rpg, but didn't by any supplements for this.

Starsiege Did a new BSG version for this too!

Metamorphosis Alpha

Runequest - My Avalon Hill Deluxe Edition came with the Europe campaign setting, but we never used it, building a brand new fantasy campaign setting for it... That was not Glorantha by the way.

Chivalry & Sorcery Redbook. About a year after I got it, I saw the Arden campaign guide for the first time, and a Saurian supplement that my friend Rodney bought for that.

RoleMaster.  Always wanted the Iron Wind Campaign setting for this, but had to do with creating a custom fantasy campaign setting using just Arms Law, Claw Law, Spell Law, Character Law and Campaign Law which were considered discrete parts of just one game.

The Compleat Warlock

Arrows of Indra

Twilight 2000. There were plenty of supplements for this, but I never got them, preferring to run games set in the East German/Poland area that was included. We also ran a US game ala Red Dawn style for this as well. I would really like to get the Mediterranean supplements for this (There are 2), just so I could run a post-apoc Mediterranean game.

The Arduin Grimoire - The original three books were considered supplements for 0D&D but we played this as a standalone game because the spells, gear and creatures were so overpowering for a standard D&D adventure party.

The Morrow Project - There were supplements for this later of course, and I picked up a few of them but the original game was this softcover paperback.

Traveller - I was actually running games for this just weeks after it was released and available in 1977. It was just the three little black books, and we were playing in subsectors that we created before the original Star Wars movie was released in theaters. I remember when we saw Star Wars when summer vacation started, it so inspired a series of Traveller campaigns for us, including one where we added Jedi!

...To Traveller.

Splat rule books are a detriment in my opinion, simply because there seems an inescapable gravitational pull that the material is higher-powered than the core material.

But otherwise completely unsupported game lines?  I don't think that's a positive either.  What would AD&D be without GDQ, S1-S4, etc.?  The modules offer a way to expand the author's vision with less threat of power creep, through showing the ruleset in action.

That doesn't mean I won't make it my own, but I appreciate seeing how the author uses the game in play.  Because if there is no sense that the author uses the game in play, it would make me less interested in using it.

Of course, I'm content with my game of choice and am not anyone's target customer for new rulesets, whether supported, unsupported, or otherwise.  So unless you're selling a module I can use or plunder, or interesting campaign material, my $ stays in my pocket.  I've enough game systems sitting on a shelf that I've never used and never anticipate using.  I'm through that buying phase, and am content.

A lack of supplementary material is never going to be a selling point to me. (I have enough self control to simply not buy or use supplements if I don't want them.)

OTOH, depending on the game, the lack of supplementary material could very easily turn me away from the game.

I'd like the rules to all be in one book. Having a good setting with a bunch of supplements for the setting only would be awesome, though (see Golarion for Pathfinder).

Yeah, being a total lore nerd, additional setting info is usually the exception to my general rule of "supplements = BAD." 'Course, even those aren't perfect. I absolutely adore Earthdawn's setting, but all the non-standard races and everything about Cathay needs to be loaded into a rocket and fired into the sun.

I like self-contained single-book games. I don't really mind supplements but all the rules should be in one book and the core book should be sufficient to run the game.