I'm curious if there are games folks know of where you can play more than one character as part of a single build as part of the normal rules. I'm referring to a creature that has full intelligence and skills that can be roleplayed differently to the "main" character as an mostly independent entity and scales/advances equally with the characters level. I'm not referring to having an animal companion that is basically more like living gear or an NPC "flaw" like a helpless dependent that you mostly need to protect in games that allow them. Some examples from popular culture and gaming might be Wily Kit and Kat from the Thundercats, the trio of blind witches/hags from the 1981 Clash of the Titans film, or even Merry/Pippin and Frodo/Sam from LOTR.
The closest I've seen personally would be a Pathfinder Summoner with an Eidolon if you choose a humanoid style Eidolon that plays differently from the main character.
In the Twilight Imperium setting of the Gensys game, the Naaz-Rokha are a composite species composed of the Naaz (a tiny, six-limed primate-like thing that is really smart and sociable) and the Rokha (a big, dangerous jaguar-person). They are not physically symbiotic, but they are socially linked into pairs that are effectively inseparable (co-dependency). When a player makes a Naaz-Rokha, they make both characters using the special rules for them. Very weird and more complex than a typical character, but interesting for when someone wants to play something really different.
Someone really ought to build an RPG based on Fire Upon the Deep. Not only does the worldbuilding lend itself to a completely gonzo-yet-comprehensible universe, it has "pack" creatures composed of 4-8 separate entities that are very cool.
To your question, it seems like that's something that could be done with a lot of systems by expanding the concept of "race" (or the equivalent) to include a combo-being.
Quote from: HappyDaze on February 24, 2025, 11:21:47 PMIn the Twilight Imperium setting of the Gensys game, the Naaz-Rokha are a composite species composed of the Naaz (a tiny, six-limed primate-like thing that is really smart and sociable) and the Rokha (a big, dangerous jaguar-person). They are not physically symbiotic, but they are socially linked into pairs that are effectively inseparable (co-dependency). When a player makes a Naaz-Rokha, they make both characters using the special rules for them. Very weird and more complex than a typical character, but interesting for when someone wants to play something really different.
Thanks and I'll take a look as that does sound like an example of what I'm looking for. I've played Twilight Imperium a couple times (though not for 10+ years) but only as the board game in a mega-weekend session and am not familiar with the backstory of the universe. I'm not looking for something that is more powerful (and am totally fine with each sub-character being the D&D equivalent of a couple levels lower than a true character in that same party) but rather something that allows for different roleplaying opportunities.
Another slightly lesser version I though of since posting (another Paizo example) was playing a Starfinder 1e mechanic with a humanoid drone where you purposefully pick different skills/abilities. In that case though you're basically hobbling your primary character's utility by doing this to an extent as the drone is typically very helpful in your primary role as the spacefantasy fix-it guy or gal.
Quote from: Zalman on February 25, 2025, 08:36:56 AMTo your question, it seems like that's something that could be done with a lot of systems by expanding the concept of "race" (or the equivalent) to include a combo-being.
I think that definitely works for a scifi setting with some sort of symbiote/parasitic race but I'm also including fantasy settings where you're just interested in playing multiple less powerful beings like playing a litter of a couple of lesser goblin rabble where each sibling has different interests represented by each skill/feat/ability/etc. Ultimately, as long as the GM is ok with it, you could just roleplay it via the normal rules for a single character and say that they're always milling about next to each other but that's not what I'm referring to.
In the Glog system one of the character classes is a group of lackeys (The Crew, Many Goblins, Many Wizards, The Cult). The combination of weak individuals makes it equal to a regular character. Wouldn't be hard to make a few of this group have personalities.
Characters in the Glog don't survive long so the folks are more willing to pick a wacky character from time to time.
In the Fantasy Flight 40K Imperial Gaurd style rpg, Only War, the low power of the individual characters is offset by giving most PCs (excepting particular specialists like commisars) a "comrade" which is a super basic NPC henchman. This effectively give the PCs an extra pair of hands, althought they don't have their own skill levels or anything, so not quite what you're talking about.
Quote from: Ruprecht on February 25, 2025, 10:09:53 AMIn the Glog system one of the character classes is a group of lackeys (The Crew, Many Goblins, Many Wizards, The Cult). The combination of weak individuals makes it equal to a regular character. Wouldn't be hard to make a few of this group have personalities.
Characters in the Glog don't survive long so the folks are more willing to pick a wacky character from time to time.
I tried looking it up and found a blog with dozens of individual files but it was a bit of a cluttered mess to go through and couldn't find that class (though I found many others). It is though an interesting idea to base a full class around the idea.
Quote from: Zenoguy3 on February 25, 2025, 02:43:39 PMIn the Fantasy Flight 40K Imperial Gaurd style rpg, Only War, the low power of the individual characters is offset by giving most PCs (excepting particular specialists like commisars) a "comrade" which is a super basic NPC henchman. This effectively give the PCs an extra pair of hands, althought they don't have their own skill levels or anything, so not quite what you're talking about.
I wasn't aware of that though I do recall a talent that gave you an IG squad as a mob under your control. The lack of skills makes me think of it more like an animal companion as you mentioned rather than what I'm looking for.
Albedo: Platinum Catalyst does this.
Quote from: Zalman on February 25, 2025, 08:36:56 AMSomeone really ought to build an RPG based on Fire Upon the Deep. Not only does the worldbuilding lend itself to a completely gonzo-yet-comprehensible universe, it has "pack" creatures composed of 4-8 separate entities that are very cool.
To your question, it seems like that's something that could be done with a lot of systems by expanding the concept of "race" (or the equivalent) to include a combo-being.
Wow, I hadn't thought of that book in years. The communal aliens were very cool, especially the one nomad who kept swapping out parts, essentially becoming a new person every time.
I think the grogs from Ars Magica would be an example of what the OP is looking for.
Quote from: Mishihari on February 26, 2025, 02:57:00 AMI think the grogs from Ars Magica would be an example of what the OP is looking for.
I am unfamiliar with the system and obviously the rules as well but a quick search revealed this:
https://www.redcap.org/page/Character_type
https://www.redcap.org/page/Grog
I don't know how current/accurate it is but the grog does sound like what I'm referring as a supplemental character. Can you play two grogs or a grog and a magus at the same time as a standard option via some combo of character abilities/upgrades instead of just a single character?
Quote from: RNGm on February 25, 2025, 05:58:50 PMQuote from: Ruprecht on February 25, 2025, 10:09:53 AMIn the Glog system one of the character classes is a group of lackeys (The Crew, Many Goblins, Many Wizards, The Cult). The combination of weak individuals makes it equal to a regular character. Wouldn't be hard to make a few of this group have personalities.
Characters in the Glog don't survive long so the folks are more willing to pick a wacky character from time to time.
I tried looking it up and found a blog with dozens of individual files but it was a bit of a cluttered mess to go through and couldn't find that class (though I found many others). It is though an interesting idea to base a full class around the idea.
The Glog in general is a cluttered mess. It was designed as non-commercial license so it attracts people that aren't invested enough to create a complete product but want to share their creativity (and a lot of story gamers). That is why its an almost ran kind of game.
Here is a link to "The Crew (https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.com/2018/08/osr-glog-pirate-classes.html)" class and a link to "The Extras (http://udan-adan.blogspot.com/2016/09/bx-class-extras.html)" class.
Quote from: Ruprecht on February 26, 2025, 09:59:32 AMThe Glog in general is a cluttered mess. It was designed as non-commercial license so it attracts people that aren't invested enough to create a complete product but want to share their creativity (and a lot of story gamers). That is why its an almost ran kind of game.
Here is a link to "The Crew (https://coinsandscrolls.blogspot.com/2018/08/osr-glog-pirate-classes.html)" class and a link to "The Extras (http://udan-adan.blogspot.com/2016/09/bx-class-extras.html)" class.
Thanks for the links! Yeah, the crew sounds like it could work for the type of character idea I'm suggesting if you just assume it's 2-3 people in one or two squares instead of 1d12+6 in a 20ft square. The Named Character option is a nice touch.
Quote from: RNGm on February 26, 2025, 08:26:40 AMQuote from: Mishihari on February 26, 2025, 02:57:00 AMI think the grogs from Ars Magica would be an example of what the OP is looking for.
I am unfamiliar with the system and obviously the rules as well but a quick search revealed this:
https://www.redcap.org/page/Character_type
https://www.redcap.org/page/Grog
I don't know how current/accurate it is but the grog does sound like what I'm referring as a supplemental character. Can you play two grogs or a grog and a magus at the same time as a standard option via some combo of character abilities/upgrades instead of just a single character?
In an adventure in standard play you have 3 options, 1) bring your mage, 2) play a companion, or 3) control a big group of grogs. In actual practice, of course, you're free to do whatever you want. I've only read the game - never had a group that wanted to play it - so my knowledge past that is peripheral at best.
I recently tried "Broken Worlds" - an RPG set in the weird setting of the "Kill Six Billion Demons" webcomic, using Powered-by-the-Apocalypse mechanics.
https://killsixbilliondemons.com/ksbd-rpg/
One of the playbooks is "The Boss", which uses a group of minions. Below is from the playtest doc (https://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1498429726220.pdf). The published version is similar but I don't have a copy on hand.
QuoteStrength in Numbers
You are the boss of a large gang of lackeys of questionable morality. Detail your
gang and some of its members to your GM and name it.
Choose 1 main racket for your gang. This is how your gang makes its living:
- Extortion and 'Dues'
- Mercenary work and 'Protection'
- Smuggling and other 'Business'
- Thievery and 'Acquisitions'
- Trading in goods of 'Acceptable legality'
Your gang completely lacks any semblance of discipline, brains, or bravery, but they love each other very much.
At any point, you have about 10-15 of these total bastards hanging around,
protecting you and doing your dirty work. You'll always have about that many no matter
what or how many you lose (they'll come out of the woodwork eventually). If they all get
wiped out, revolt, or if you get totally separated from them for whatever reason, you lose
the ["group"] tag and the use of your gang-based moves until you rest and can get them
back.
Think about your gang as an extension of yourself.. Members of your gang can
separate out and perform tasks for you, but when they do, they are handled much like
other npcs. Similarly, you can separate from your gang, but can't command them
effectively if you do. You and the gang are basically synonymous.
When you're with your gang and commanding them, you gain the [group] tag, so you
deal +1 damage to non-group targets and take -1 damage from them. When you
separate from your gang, you lose this tag. Your gang doesn't function effectively
without you commanding them (they're a bit thick), and if your gang needs to perform a
task separate from you (for example, guarding an area while you split from them) a Dirty
Work move will determine how well they do. Otherwise use your statistics to represent
the gang.
Your gang fights with a motley assortment of weaponry and styles. They might even
all fight with the same weapon (there's a reason they call them the Axe Gang). Decide
what weapons they have.
Thanks again to you both for the suggestions and I'll check them out as well!
Quote from: RNGm on February 28, 2025, 08:22:33 AMThanks again to you both for the suggestions and I'll check them out as well!
You literally just described Paranoia. You are trapped in a Logan's Run world with an insane computer and a bunch of clones ready to take your place when your party members betrays/kills/disintegrates you.
Quote from: honeydipperdavid on February 28, 2025, 03:50:18 PMQuote from: RNGm on February 28, 2025, 08:22:33 AMThanks again to you both for the suggestions and I'll check them out as well!
You literally just described Paranoia. You are trapped in a Logan's Run world with an insane computer and a bunch of clones ready to take your place when your party members betrays/kills/disintegrates you.
It's been 25+ years since I last looked at Paranoia but I don't recall playing multiple clones simultaneously as a standard thing but rather in sequence as your character dies.
BESM has 'companions' which have independent stats from what I recall.
Not what you're looking for.
Quote from: JanDevries on February 25, 2025, 10:59:53 PMAlbedo: Platinum Catalyst does this.
It does alot of things... badly.
4e D&D Gamma World allows you to create a PC that was a humanoid shaped swarm of smaller critters/things. A human shaped swarm if kittens! They could split up if had the right powers.
Not what you want but that came to mind right off.
White Wolf's Aberrant super hero RPG though does have powers that allow you to split up into multiple entities or just duplicate yourself.
TSR's Marvel Superheroes RPG could allow for it. Messy, but could be done.
I will be totally surprised if there is not at least one in Rifts!
AD&D allowed for playing multiple PCs at once to fill out a party as needed. BX and OD&D as well. Not sure on 2e. 3e is a bit too complex for that. But 4e's board game focus would certainly allow for it.
Honestly any RPG can handle playing more than one PC to one degree or another.
Quote from: Omega on March 01, 2025, 01:36:06 PMQuote from: JanDevries on February 25, 2025, 10:59:53 PMAlbedo: Platinum Catalyst does this.
It does alot of things... badly.
The ship fights are improved on at least, aren't they? In the earlier versions you could die really easily in air combat.
Quote from: D-ko on March 02, 2025, 07:46:41 PMQuote from: Omega on March 01, 2025, 01:36:06 PMQuote from: JanDevries on February 25, 2025, 10:59:53 PMAlbedo: Platinum Catalyst does this.
It does alot of things... badly.
The ship fights are improved on at least, aren't they? In the earlier versions you could die really easily in air combat.
That was the whole point. Combat across the board was highly lethal in the original 2 editions. Moreso than even 1st ed Shadowrun.
Quote from: RNGm on February 24, 2025, 10:21:18 PMI'm curious if there are games folks know of where you can play more than one character as part of a single build as part of the normal rules. I'm referring to a creature that has full intelligence and skills that can be roleplayed differently to the "main" character as an mostly independent entity and scales/advances equally with the characters level. I'm not referring to having an animal companion that is basically more like living gear or an NPC "flaw" like a helpless dependent that you mostly need to protect in games that allow them. Some examples from popular culture and gaming might be Wily Kit and Kat from the Thundercats, the trio of blind witches/hags from the 1981 Clash of the Titans film, or even Merry/Pippin and Frodo/Sam from LOTR.
The closest I've seen personally would be a Pathfinder Summoner with an Eidolon if you choose a humanoid style Eidolon that plays differently from the main character.
You know, if you're willing to scale this idea up, it could make for an interesting wet navy/space navy kind of game where your "character" is the key officers and their crew members who are on the different sections of the ship, hmmm.
Prowlers and Paragons:
(https://i.imgur.com/CR0tG7k.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/7lMpfeI.png)
Of course, you don't necessarily need specific rules - the GM can just allow people to create and control multiple characters. In that case, those who choose not to should be provided with some sort of benefit to compensate.
Alternate method : Play a group of Minions as per the Summoning power rules. Rather than being summoned by a particular character (although you could do that as well), you play the minions themselves. Of course, you would have the normal amount of Hero Points to allocate to yourself(selves) so that they are more effective than typical Minions would be.
Quote from: Banjo Destructo on March 03, 2025, 05:12:17 PMQuote from: RNGm on February 24, 2025, 10:21:18 PMI'm curious if there are games folks know of where you can play more than one character as part of a single build as part of the normal rules. I'm referring to a creature that has full intelligence and skills that can be roleplayed differently to the "main" character as an mostly independent entity and scales/advances equally with the characters level. I'm not referring to having an animal companion that is basically more like living gear or an NPC "flaw" like a helpless dependent that you mostly need to protect in games that allow them. Some examples from popular culture and gaming might be Wily Kit and Kat from the Thundercats, the trio of blind witches/hags from the 1981 Clash of the Titans film, or even Merry/Pippin and Frodo/Sam from LOTR.
The closest I've seen personally would be a Pathfinder Summoner with an Eidolon if you choose a humanoid style Eidolon that plays differently from the main character.
You know, if you're willing to scale this idea up, it could make for an interesting wet navy/space navy kind of game where your "character" is the key officers and their crew members who are on the different sections of the ship, hmmm.
I actually have a system like that for my game, which is essentially 1600s fantasy buccaneers. If the player party controls a ship during a naval action, they take the roles of pilot, gunner, carpenter, marine lieutenant, captain, and others. They each have a crew complement assigned to their function and control the group as a whole. It looks good, but I haven't had a chance to test it yet.