A recent, remarkably honest thread on RPG.net talks about how Exalted as played by most normal people is apparently an utterly different game than "RPG.net Exalted", the game as people on RPG.net like to talk about it.
I think this is a pretty common freaking phenomenon, where if you were to believe what people write about a game online, you'd think that it was actually played a certain way, but the way most normal people have fuck all to do with that.
One other example I can immediately think of is WFRP, where the whole "enemy within" crowd imagine the game as this basically "fantasy Cthulhu" game where the PCs are never doing anything even vaguely resembling D&D and spend all their time trying to decipher deep conspiracies only to be massacred in the end because combat is Frowned Upon. Whereas most people play the game as straightforward fantasy roleplaying with lots of combat, renaissance gritty-roleplay with lots of religious persecution of Mutant Scum, and a bit of investigation on the side.
Other examples?
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;306711One other example I can immediately think of is WFRP, where the whole "enemy within" crowd imagine the game as this basically "fantasy Cthulhu" game where the PCs are never doing anything even vaguely resembling D&D and spend all their time trying to decipher deep conspiracies only to be massacred in the end because combat is Frowned Upon.
Only you think the
TEW crowd think this way.
QuoteWhereas most people play the game as straightforward fantasy roleplaying with lots of combat, renaissance gritty-roleplay with lots of religious persecution of Mutant Scum, and a bit of investigation on the side.
This is more what most people think of
WFRP, with
TEW crowd liking more of the investigation aspect which the design philosphy of the original game empahsized.
As for other examples
4E.
Regards,
David R
Quote from: David R;306714This is more what most people think of WFRP, with TEW crowd liking more of the investigation aspect which the design philosphy of the original game empahsized.
No. It really, really didn't. Read the 1e manual. There is NOTHING in that whole big manual which would suggest this "design philosophy".
It was pretty bog-standard fantasy adventuring complete with random treasure tables (which made it hilarious that later, the Swine were shocked at the idea of including random treasure tables for 2e suggesting that this somehow was a "betrayal" of what WFRP was "all about" even though its something that was there from the very beginning and was later omitted).
RPGPundit
For what it's worth, WHFRP was one of the first roleplaying campaigns I played in and in retrospect the "fantasy Cthulhu" description sort of fits. It was plot-intensive, fairly dark and there wasn't much in terms of combat. Of course being new to the hobby that didn't strike me as odd or unusual at the time. It was actually good fun.
I am not saying my experience as a player with WHFRP is representative of how everyone played WHFRP or even an indication of how it should be played, just saying you can't blame online communities for the "fantasy Cthulhu" take on Warhammer because it was clearly being widely played that way long before the Internet became available to regular people.
As for what maks for a "normal person", I'm not even going there. :D
For me the biggest disconnect between what I've expereinced as a roleplayer and what I read on blogs and forums is the whole length of campaign thing. You read about campaigns that have run for 10, 20 years even. In my experience 10 sessions is a long campaign.
Quote from: RPGPundit;306716No. It really, really didn't. Read the 1e manual. There is NOTHING in that whole big manual which would suggest this "design philosophy".
It was pretty bog-standard fantasy adventuring complete with random treasure tables (which made it hilarious that later, the Swine were shocked at the idea of including random treasure tables for 2e suggesting that this somehow was a "betrayal" of what WFRP was "all about" even though its something that was there from the very beginning and was later omitted).
No, Read the design thoughts from the designers themselves found in
White Dwarf - I have quoted the section many times whenever you have brought this nonsense up - and take a look at the
TEW campaign itself - everything but
Empire in Flames, which did not go down well with anyone.
WFRP could be played in any way something the designers encouraged but it was investigation/roleplaying in a grim perilous world that the designers thought separated this game from the other high fantsay games of the times. They were even pleased with the term "grubby" fantasy. Actually it's pretty interesting, there was a
WD adventure called
Moorglum's (sp) Marauders which made fun of the fact that
WFRP sessions seemed to be stuck in the cities and characters sniffing around nobles hoping to get a whiff of chaos......
Regards,
David R
I have no idea how the "majority" plays anything.
I have played a lot of WFRP 1e and it's best strength is "Fantasy Cthulhu" and certainly never BOG standard (if BOG = generic D&D). The Oldenhaller Contract intro adventure sets the tone nicely - lots of adventure, bloody combat, gritty grubby roleplay and the requisite stink of Chaos.
Of course, in my CoC games, PCs are there to confront the Mythos - quite often with shotguns, not just burn books and run away which seems to be a common online whine.
However, you are 100% right about the random magic item chart. Good stuff...'course, I prefer the chart in the Realms of Chaos books.
Quote from: Halfjack;306733I have no idea how the "majority" plays anything.
Agreed.
For my own part, the only local Exalted campaign I have information on seems to run exactly like the RPGnet description.
Also, "WFRP = fantasy CoC" totally works for me, but I seem to run CoC differently from many online reports. In my CoC games Deep Ones are tommy-gunned by the truckload, PCs are to the Yellow Sign what Wyatt Earp in
Tombstone was to the Red Sash, and generally shit gits blown up.
Well, first I'd need an offline gaming group to compare...
There's always personal horror vs. superheroes with fangs in WoD...
Here's one from online play: The GM and other players matter a lot more than system and setting. You just need a half-decent system and setting; you need better than that for GM and players.
Enthusiasm is key.
The only RPG I would consider "fantasy Call of Cthulhu", besides Cthulho Dark Ages, obviously, is Aquelarre.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_So7zkuxJuPo/RqsymKiaUuI/AAAAAAAAAQM/jCCnDuYi6yo/s320/aquelarre+orig.jpg)
Quote from: jrients;306737Also, "WFRP = fantasy CoC" totally works for me, but I seem to run CoC differently from many online reports. In my CoC games Deep Ones are tommy-gunned by the truckload, PCs are to the Yellow Sign what Wyatt Earp in Tombstone was to the Red Sash, and generally shit gits blown up.
My CoC games run similar as well. As I always say, my CoC games much more resemble Dashiell Hammet stories than Lovecraft ones.
'Dashiell Hamet'?
Quote from: Narf the Mouse;306767'Dashiell Hamet'?
Are you asking why I would mix pulp detective novels with my Cthulhu plots? Or just unfamiliar with the author?
If the former, it's because I like noir stuff, and slipping in some extra Cthulhu horror just adds to the fun. In one campaign I ran in college, the PCs were actually all gangsters or connected acquaintances of gangsters, who ran across some horrific goings-on in the course of business. Hilarity ensued (my version of CoC has a lot of dark humor, too).
If the latter, let Wikipedia guide you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashiell_Hammett (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashiell_Hammett)
Ah, I use '?' as a general, direct inquiry on the subject matter quoted, indicated a lack of knowledge on it. So it would be a question about 'Dashiell Hamet'. ;)
Thanks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashiell_Hammett
on that note, you should probably also have a look at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Chandler
If you haven't read these guys, you are in for a treat. Just about any book store or library is going to have some work form both of them- if not in the mystery section, in the lit section.
Yeah, I'm considering it. :)
I don't know about majority, but anyone who claims that there is no room for interesting stories and characterization in D&D and it's all about killing monsters and taking their stuff needs to spend some time at my table.
Quote from: jgants;306766My CoC games run similar as well. As I always say, my CoC games much more resemble Dashiell Hammet stories than Lovecraft ones.
Can I play in your game?
Quote from: Caesar Slaad;306786I don't know about majority, but anyone who claims that there is no room for interesting stories and characterization in D&D and it's all about killing monsters and taking their stuff needs to spend some time at my table.
Why not both?
(And even though you don't, there are plenty of those who state that there is no room for killing things and taking their stuff if you want interesting stories and characterization.)
Quote from: Old Geezer;306791Why not both?
Oh, I never said that killing their monsters and taking their stuff didn't happen in my game. :) But that wasn't the all too commonly parroted wrongness I was refuting.
I don't think this phenomenon is limited to Exalted. I've run across several bizarro statements that tell me that the person may have read the game rules, but hasn't actually used them in play.
d20 Traveller for example, when you read the combat section and its Lifeblood rules they seem kind of confusing, except when you use them in play they work smoothly. I've seen some commentary difference with that between online and real world.
Every time I hear someone whine about the GM needs to have limits on their power in a game, it strikes me as someone who has read a lot of forum talk about gaming but has yet to have extensive actual play time. Why? Because when they refer to stories of GMs being dicks, it has been my experience that asshole GMs don't have Players for long because the Players will leave the game - thus making it a self-correcting problem.
I'll comment more later on.
Quote from: Old Geezer;306791Why not both?
(And even though you don't, there are plenty of those who state that there is no room for killing things and taking their stuff if you want interesting stories and characterization.)
Indeed! One of my most intense characterizations was a wizard in a typical D&D adventure game.
He was Neutral Good, an Elven Wizard, liked architecture...And had a cold, cruel side and was noticably racist towards culturally-disliked races. One of the scenes (Spontaneous, I might add), involved mental torture of a captured goblin on the off chance he had information.
And yes, enemies were there to be killed and looted and combat was half (Or more) of the game.
I don't pop over RPG.net too often these days so I'm curious: what the hell do RPG.netters say Exalted is like?
What about other games, for that matter?
Well, there were so many Exalted threads that disolved in flames, they had to institute rules that you couldn't do that in appropriately-marked threads.
I didn't pay attention to the arguments, however, finding flame-threads either amusing, boring, innane and/or repetitious. Three to one means I rarely even glance at them.
So, I couldn't tell you what that was about. You can always ask Pundit; you're sure to get an opinion. Generally an interesting one, amusingly-phrased. Wether it'll be correct is a matter of much debate, it seems.
You want to know? Hit up Google for "Jon Chung"; he's the guy that's most notorious for breaking the game, and then showing how he did it- and then explaining why this is a bad thing in terms of setting logic.
Tried Google - Stuff that wasn't about RPGs and stuff about Jon Chung. Link, please?
Narf, BC explained the basic thrust of Jon Chung quite well so looking up individual threads is not necessary. The typical counterresponse however needs to be mentioned. Essentially, it's "LOL, it doesn't matter!" Seeing how I believe that rules should support the setting, I find the respondants (which includes various freelancers who were paid for fucking up) very irritating.
Anyway, the majority of the D&D campaigns I have experienced were along these lines...
A) A low-magic picaresque like The Adventures of A Simpleton
B) A multi-book fantasy epic like The Wheel of Time
C) The first part of Clockwork Orange in fantasy drag
The various campaigns where elements were derived solely from the logical consequences of the rulesets were the tiniest minority but I found them the most fun.
*Sigh* I cannot evaluate the effectiveness of Jon Chungs' evaluations without seeing them. I did not find them on google, so I asked for a link.
If I had thought Bradfords' explanation sufficient, I would not have asked for source.
Oh, come now, there are those GMs who have their own little posse. They love each other dearly, but let someone deign to want to play with their group. And, BAM, that person becomes the butt of all jokes and unfortunate happenings. You've never met up with that? I've seen it too often.
"Oh, he's the best GM I've ever had."
Translation: "He treats me well because I'm as close to a woman as he'll ever get."
Rpg.net does lavish a lot of ink on Exalted. Some are interesting. Some are stupid. It's like any other forum.
I like to come to this forum on occasion to see a somewhat different side of gaming in some ways. There are several forums I find very interesting. Tis why I keep coming back to them. :)
Quote from: teckno72;306844"Oh, he's the best GM I've ever had."
I wish I got some of this love. My players more or less ignore me. After a particular thrilling session of
Star Trek, all I got was a "
did anyone else notice that the wine was not served at room temperature" And why the fuck is this a common complaint around my table.
Regards,
David R
...You need better players. Mayhap game with people who aren't wine snobs?
Quote from: David R;306846I wish I got some of this love. My players more or less ignore me. After a particular thrilling session of Star Trek, all I got was a "did anyone else notice that the wine was not served at room temperature" And why the fuck is this a common complaint around my table.
Regards,
David R
I usually get loyal players who really LIKE my games and the way I GM. It just they actually have busy lives - its harder to schedule session times.
Did you ask that player if they wanted cheese with their whine?
Or suggest they bring the drinks next time?
- Ed C.
Nah, they are a great group, but like Mr. Burns I always go - "Where are my kudos ?".
Regards,
David R
Quote from: David R;306852Nah, they are a great group, but like Mr. Burns I always go - "Where are my kudos ?".
I often have fun with mine, and occasionally get feedback.
At the same time, there's an awful lot of times that dealing with the group makes me feel like that Family Guy episode where Stewie had the Star Trek TNG cast around. It is amazing how being a DM to a group of adults in their 20s to 60s can be so close to being a daycare worker at times...
Quote from: David R;306846I wish I got some of this love. My players more or less ignore me. After a particular thrilling session of Star Trek, all I got was a "did anyone else notice that the wine was not served at room temperature" And why the fuck is this a common complaint around my table.
Regards,
David R
Somehow, Player love is like family. They'll defend you and your game to the death, get in fistfights about it, jealously guard the entry of any other players (unless it is their idea, then look out), drink your wine (my wine cellar is already wincing and we don't play until tonight), complain about every single ruling some nights, exploit every loophole, talk about your love love, talk about the love-life of any Player not present, ...
And we invite them back...very regularly.
I haven't actually played exalted, but the post in that thread seemed to suggest that "RPG.net Exalted" was "You play these guys with incredible godlike powers and set out conquering empires and making long monologues about dealing with infinite power and you kick everyone's ass with perfect charm combos!!!!111ONE!1111!", whereas real Exalted is apparently "you're a guy who's being hunted by really powerful dudes and need to keep your profile as low as possible and try to get by in this fantasy world of massive powers, of which you are just one".
RPGPundit
Here, let me quote him from a recent thread:
Quote from: Jon Chung@RPGNetA summary of my position: it's really easy to die in Exalted, because the system weights attack higher than defense and damage more than soak without Charms applied, and there are a lot of people trying to kill player characters by default in the setting. This makes it easy for an inexperienced Exalted GM to accidentally kill his players, even if he's not trying to. Therefore, it's a good idea to start with a 2-4 charm selection of defensive effects at character creation. You may not be able to do everything you want to do right out of the gate, but at least you won't be unceremoniously killed before you can grow into it.
If you have to worry about the risk of death, pick up one of the Charms here: Heavenly Guardian Defense or Seven Shadow Evasion, with the third option of Iron Skin Concentration (with a really high Resistance pool). Just reserving one of the above for your Charm action is enough to save you from the vast majority of attacks in the game. If your GM may throw a ninja ambush scenario at you, pick up Reflex Sidestep Technique too. If you're likely to be fighting other Exalted from the start of the game, you probably want Leaping Dodge Technique to go with Seven Shadow Evasion.
For offense, it's probably a good idea to pick up one of the Grand Weapons if you're planning to be a Melee fighter: the grand goremaul, grand daiklave or grand grimcleaver/grimscythe. These things do a ridiculous amount of damage, and can often slay opponents (even Exalted opponents) in a single blow, even with no Charm enhancement. Solar Charms that grant extra attacks (such as Iron Whirlwind Attack or Solar Counterattack) ignore the low Rate of such weapons, allowing you to unleash terrible flurries of incredibly lethal strikes. Even without such Charms, the Solar magical material orichalcum grants these weapons an extra point of Rate.
Disregard my advice if your GM is the type to ensure PCs don't die no matter what: in this case, pick whatever looks cool.
jgants, Lord Vreeg good posts. I was going to go on a ramble but your posts sums up my position nicely..... with far fewer words.
Reading BC Walker's quote from tBP, all I can say is, here's where Pseudoephedrine's Philosophy of Play comes in. I'd also add Malcolm Sheppard's and Kyle Aaron's (I can't seem to find the links) views on actual plays.
Regards,
David R
Gee, I have read a 1st ed WFRP rulebook, and a later printing of it is what I have. Aside from the hardcover, and the massive errata issues, they are the same. And the whole "You're going to go insane" element is there in both.
Now, I've also run "BOG" type adventures with WFRP. Buy a D&D 1st level module. Replace the stat blocks with the closest WFRP critters. Let the dying horrendously commence. It will probably be the PC's, not the monsters. B2 Keep on the Borderlands took a party a month to beat. (Well, 3.5 sessions.)
So, either I'm in the TEW crowd (and it rocked), or WFRP1 is about trying not to go insane while you face down the terrors that lurk in the corruption of the old world, or both.
Now, WFRP2E is a very different game. But it is equally just as much about trying not to go off the deep end despite your adventuresome self.
On the WFRP front, i really don't care about all this TEW swine business. Who cares how some people prefer to play the game?
The thing of importance here is that they do play the game.
The thing that winds me up is endless warhammer threads that decend into saying that if you don't shit on the characters, beat them up, rob them and drop them into stinking puddles of excrement, you're not doing it right. Don't give them money or equipment, or if you do, give it a sting in the tail so that they don't want it, get robbed of it or get burnt for it.
Bollocks. Grim 'n' gritty not Grim 'n' shitty.
I want my players coming back to play and enjoying themselves, thus i conclude that many of the folk on forums who take the grim 'n' shitty route don't play the game regularly.
Quote from: Old Geezer;306790Can I play in your game?
Me too, Hammett for the win.
Actually, I prefer Chandler, but I'd game some Hammett CoC in a heartbeat.
On topic, when I read the thread title, I thought Exalted.
Rpg.net is all "you play gods, capable of defeating armies and reshaping the world!". I didn't get that from the RAW and certainly didn't from the example intro scenario (apparently, to be fair, it is famously bad) where you go into a dungeon and fight some city guards.
As I always say, WFRP1e can be about a lot of things.
Your party consists of a Labourer, a Student and an Agitator? Probably an urban, investigative game.
Your party consists of a Road Warden, a Tunnel Runner, a Militiaman and an Apprentice Wizard? Welcome to the dungeon baby.
Like most successful games it's actually pretty flexible.
Quote from: One Horse Town;307043On the WFRP front, i really don't care about all this TEW swine business. Who cares how some people prefer to play the game?
The thing of importance here is that they do play the game.
The thing that winds me up is endless warhammer threads that decend into saying that if you don't shit on the characters, beat them up, rob them and drop them into stinking puddles of excrement, you're not doing it right. Don't give them money or equipment, or if you do, give it a sting in the tail so that they don't want it, get robbed of it or get burnt for it.
Bollocks. Grim 'n' gritty not Grim 'n' shitty.
I want my players coming back to play and enjoying themselves, thus i conclude that many of the folk on forums who take the grim 'n' shitty route don't play the game regularly.
Well put. And to avoid doing two "ditto" posts in a row, I very much agree with Balbinus' statement about the versatility of WFRP as well.
RPGPundit
I have found Shadowrun falls under this label. The way people discuss Shadowrun on Dumpshock would make you think that the game was a future real life simulator other than a game with Cyberware and elves! The Matrix has to be real, yet I find most people just kind of handwave it. Magic is broken! Well, possession traditions and possession itself is broken in Fourth Edition. Why the devs decided to give a power (Immunity to Normal Weapons) which A.) Does not explain well enough what the mechanical effects are for the power and B.) No critter in the book has that power, period. Even spirits do not have Immunity to Normal Weapons. Otherwise, magic works well.
Some people forget that they are playing a game! The rules have to be so important. I mean, have you ever had to sit through reading grandmaster_cain's fucking Mr. Lucky bullshit? Beyond the fact that a good GM would smack that stuff down, it is just a blatant attempt to twink the rules.
Shadowrun is very much a game that is played differently than it is described online.
"Traveller is about a bunch of old guys in a decrepit freighter trying to pay the mortgage."
That's my favorite way to start the game, but with a little bit of acumen and a little bit of luck, it's pretty easy to be running a planet in relatively short order. Running a shipping line, dealing with interplanetary politics, catering to the foibles of nobility: my experience tends toward the merchant prince end of the spectrum, not Firefly.
*Sarcasm* But if you can't yell "You're doing it wrong!", you're not a gamer!
I don't know how Ars Magica is played in real life, but I doubt it's about crunching the math on magic research and relentlessly creating new spells. Reading the Ars forums, it's extremely rare to come across anything resembling adventure.
Quote from: Haffrung;307312I don't know how Ars Magica is played in real life, but I doubt it's about crunching the math on magic research and relentlessly creating new spells. Reading the Ars forums, it's extremely rare to come across anything resembling adventure.
I know how my friends and I ran it.
Session order:
1) set up plans for current season
2) ask for any adventures; since most of my friends in those games were experienced GM's, there usually were 2-3.
3) make rolls for current season.
The adventures were usually fairly short.
An example evening, from our Isle de Sark campaign (Sark was between habitations at the time, so it was a great location):
set up tasks.
Peter, myself and Ben all have story bits to do.
Mine is the annual vis hunt. everyone else's characters say where they are looking, and I adjudicated it. One particular area had a complication, which Ben's magus and Steph's comtes for same found... and a fight ensued.
Peter's was next up. He narrates a nasty summer storm, and a ship being wrecked upon the reef by it. We (the other 7 players) each had a character in the fray trying to rescue by magic and/or mundane means the various survivors. One child is rescued who has the gift... and then he stops.
Ben puts his on hold. Ben and I get into character as our magi, and several others join us... we decide to train her as an apprentice of the covenant... a violation of the code... and lay out her training for the rest of the season. Nominally, Joe is GMing that section.
Ben runs his bit, a nasty interruption to "normalcy" for the covenant... a visitor trying to find reason to duel my Magus. The covenant rallies, and we send him off, unhappy and not too well minded... we sent him off in regio, not mundania...
Then on to resolution... Ben rolls a botch on the joint lab work between his and my characters. 15 d10's get rolled, and 5 "0"'s come up; some roleplay of the results of the botch... Drop back into roleplay mode for the end of season covenant meeting, and reassess lab assignments in light of the meeping mushrooms and breathing walls of Ben's magus' lab.
Quote from: aramis;307317I know how my friends and I ran it.
Session order:
1) set up plans for current season
2) ask for any adventures; since most of my friends in those games were experienced GM's, there usually were 2-3.
3) make rolls for current season.
The adventures were usually fairly short.
An example evening, from our Isle de Sark campaign (Sark was between habitations at the time, so it was a great location):
set up tasks.
Peter, myself and Ben all have story bits to do.
Mine is the annual vis hunt. everyone else's characters say where they are looking, and I adjudicated it. One particular area had a complication, which Ben's magus and Steph's comtes for same found... and a fight ensued.
Peter's was next up. He narrates a nasty summer storm, and a ship being wrecked upon the reef by it. We (the other 7 players) each had a character in the fray trying to rescue by magic and/or mundane means the various survivors. One child is rescued who has the gift... and then he stops.
Ben puts his on hold. Ben and I get into character as our magi, and several others join us... we decide to train her as an apprentice of the covenant... a violation of the code... and lay out her training for the rest of the season. Nominally, Joe is GMing that section.
Ben runs his bit, a nasty interruption to "normalcy" for the covenant... a visitor trying to find reason to duel my Magus. The covenant rallies, and we send him off, unhappy and not too well minded... we sent him off in regio, not mundania...
Then on to resolution... Ben rolls a botch on the joint lab work between his and my characters. 15 d10's get rolled, and 5 "0"'s come up; some roleplay of the results of the botch... Drop back into roleplay mode for the end of season covenant meeting, and reassess lab assignments in light of the meeping mushrooms and breathing walls of Ben's magus' lab.
That sounds pretty cool. You rarely see stuff that like on the Ars forums.
Quote from: Haffrung;307331That sounds pretty cool. You rarely see stuff that like on the Ars forums.
I haven't ever done the Ars forums. I've got 2nd,3rd, ad 4th eds... and we do troupe style when we do it.
I'd been running Exalted for a while (and hopefully I'll get a chance to do it again, soon), and I was surprised by the huge discrepancy between PCs. I was running it in fairly standard high-powered fantasy mode but one PC would have been instantly slaughtered if it hadn't been for some sturdy armor.
Exalted powers break down by Charms and if you don't have it, you're just a normal person in that aspect. If you get into a fight, you need fighting Charms. Here's where it's different online then in play:
Powers are charms, and like I said, if you get into a fight you'd better have some fighting powers. Even on the low end of Exalted power (Dragon-Blooded or whatever), you're likely to run into someone with fighting powers. Fighting powers always beats no fighting powers. It's that simple.
One player wanted to be someone who was good in a fight, but refused to take defensive powers, assuming that armor would do the trick. She basically ignored anything I said to the contrary. Forums assume that you're going to have these powers, and that if the player doesn't know better then you, as the storyteller, will helpfully inform said player and the player will logically do as you suggest.
Nevermind that many players do not appreciate having the ref building their character for them. She was particularly stubborn (and really just stopped getting invited back), but I can imagine times when players really don't have any interest in going that direction, but that really threw me because I had to play with kid gloves lest I flatten several party members.
Exalted players on forums, and I really just mean RPG.net here, tend to assume a fairly large swath of charms for PCs, and that gets very pricy. To get those loadouts, you need to play for a long time. I gave huge buckets of XP to players every game, so they average a new charm per session, and they still didn't look anything like what you hear about on a forum.
Likewise, you hear about invulnerable elder Exalts, and even with scads of XP, you're seeing them gifted with not just every charm that's in a book, but also customs and large combo arrays. Theoretical battles are played out where the mere existence of a power is proof that the NPC in question has it, and has it in a combo. I find it hard to believe that people build their worlds and run their games like that. No wonder they're so frustrated. It's like every NPC is goddamn Elminster The Pain In Your PCs Ass.
They wouldn't be playing out large, theoretical battles if they were actually playing.
Exalted char op makes 3e's look positively simplistic. Which I always found ironic, given how many of the Exalted fanboys would shit on D&D at every opportunity.
Said Exalted fanboys warmed up to 3E in time.
Heck, I recall how Kasumi used to orgasm on the TBP about the D&D campaign where they used all of the Completes and leveled up every adventure (which isn't a bad advancement scheme if you think about it but still).
Quote from: DeadUematsu;307414Said Exalted fanboys warmed up to 3E in time.
Heck, I recall how Kasumi used to orgasm on the TBP about the D&D campaign where they used all of the Completes and leveled up every adventure (which isn't a bad advancement scheme if you think about it but still).
I'm sure to an uninitiated Exalted player, the move to a more discrete and codified advancement process probably seems like a dream come true.
I just could never shake the feeling that Exalted was created primarily so that WW fans could indulge in all those nasty powergaming tendencies they all claimed to be above, and nWoD hitting everything with the nerf bat didn't do much to dissuade me from that conclusion.
I ran an Exalted campaign for three years.
Yes, that discrepancy exists. I had to fight with one hand crippled and the other behind my back because four of the six PCs were quite vulnerable. (Three of the five Dragon-Bloods and the one Sidereal.) One of them relied heavily on Presence Charms to mind-fuck potential hostiles out of action and whatever remained could be handled. The last was an Immaculate Martial Artist that knew how to play; he was the tough nut to crack, at times literally.
The group, collectively, never fought anything more Exalted than some Outcastes and the Sidereal had some not-quite-lethal fights against other Sidereals. Aside from a dogpile against a young Lunar, they faced no Celestials as a group until the end: they fought, and won, against a Circle of barely-trained Abyssals. Half of the group died in the end; the rest escaped- and never did I truly take off the gloves.
Had I been cruel, I would've thrown just one Invulnerable Sword Princess at them; stacked Persistents and superior mobility means I Win At Mote Attrition against anyone that lacks those abilities, and that is what Exalted combat comes down to amongst those that know how to play the game.
Quote from: J Arcane;307415I'm sure to an uninitiated Exalted player, the move to a more discrete and codified advancement process probably seems like a dream come true.
I just could never shake the feeling that Exalted was created primarily so that WW fans could indulge in all those nasty powergaming tendencies they all claimed to be above, and nWoD hitting everything with the nerf bat didn't do much to dissuade me from that conclusion.
Of course. I've always argued that Exalted is like "Art Porn" that they show on Bravo! tv... its really just porn, but they make it a little slicker and call it "art", so that "sophisticates" don't have to feel guilty about wanting to watch porn.
RPGPundit
Forgive my greenback newb ignorance but is it blasphemy to post a link to the Exalted post you are referring to here Pundit? Or perhaps maybe just a title so I can hunt it down? Searching for a particular post about Exalted on rpg.net is like trying to find a potential lay without HIV at a Heroin Addicts Anonymous meeting.
Okay to throw my two bits in...
The game of Exalted I ran for 2 years was a bit like how Pundit sees the RPG net guys describe it. I had some setting revisals I wanted to do to the game so I thought "Hey why not let the players carry out the epic setting changes themselves so they feel cool about themselves." That was the story, so admittedly I was a bit light on them, but we all had fun and it was a nice epic game.
A good friend of mine runs Exalted like new World of Darkness + Call of Cthulhu blended with the most extreme golden railroad philosophy I've ever seen. Hers is a game of true horror where you watch helplessly as demons tear apart your girlfriend, and if you step out and use your powers in any obvious way you better have a ticket out of town ready because everything and their dire hound will be on your trail 15 seconds later.
Ultimately there's no one way to play it just like any RPG. I can do power gaming just fine in most games, but ran by a couple of my friends that just doesn't work. It's the way they run.