Inspired by this (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?41052-RPGs-that-will-never-have-a-2nd-edition)recent thread (RPGs that will never have a 2nd edition) I ask:
What games need(ed) a 2nd edition? Note the past tense, We can include games that had a 1st edition, but are so long gone that there's probably no hope of them ever seeing another life. And just to make it more interesting, feel free to swap out 2nd edition for "new edition." Here are my top 3:
7th Sea: A lot of people had a problem with their fantasy Europe, but IMO realistic geography means nothing in Swashbuckling Land. My problem was the system. It was pretty clunky, with attributes way more important than skills. The magic system was all over the place. Has the second edition fixed anything?
Fading Suns: I have the 2nd edition, with the Victory Point System and useless introvert stats. I think Redbrick tried to redo it but it got axed, and then FASA did a 2nd revised? Don't know if they fixed any of the problems. I'd like them to scrap whatever has gone before and just port the thing over to an existing system. Savage Worlds would be my choice.
D20 Modern: Would love to see WOTC retool this for 5th Edition D&D. I'm sure someone has done this by now, right? Is it any good?
For D20 Modern, the closest comparison I can think of would be Ultramodern5. It uses 5th edition D&D as it's baseline and covers a variety of modern to sci-fi genres.
Fading Suns I never played, so others will have to weigh in on that one.
7th Sea 2e was a hot mess. The setting itself is actually pretty good if you don't mind it being exactly Europe with the serial numbers filed off. The rules though. Holy fuck the rules are goddamned awful! The best summary of all that is wrong with it that I've come across is here (https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/cow2zs/what_is_your_opinion_on_7th_seas_system_and_why/ewllx78?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x).
Quote from: SavageSchemer;1102037For D20 Modern, the closest comparison I can think of would be Ultramodern5. It uses 5th edition D&D as it's baseline and covers a variety of modern to sci-fi genres.
Fading Suns I never played, so others will have to weigh in on that one.
7th Sea 2e was a hot mess. The setting itself is actually pretty good if you don't mind it being exactly Europe with the serial numbers filed off. The rules though. Holy fuck the rules are goddamned awful! The best summary of all that is wrong with it that I've come across is here (https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/cow2zs/what_is_your_opinion_on_7th_seas_system_and_why/ewllx78?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x).
All I had to see in that comment was "John Wick", and the rest was redundant. Accurate, but redundant.
Stars Without Number. The original version had decending AC, which is silly.
I'd love to see a GURPS 5th edition, though if it happens it's likely still a decade (or several) away. The current edition (4th) has been seeing some recent success with 3rd party licenses and several kickstarters along with continued releases by SJG (partly thanks to the reassigned manpower after being freed up from Pyramid Magazine), but at this point there have been enough of the cracks in the hull filled / wallpapered over with supplementary materials that I would really appreciate a consolidated edition with all the big / most effective changes implemented in the Basic Set. As much as I appreciate the breadth of material available for 4th edition, it gets annoying trying to remember which random article or buried sidebar has the tool I vaguely remember exists and that I want for a given campaign. At the very least a new Compendium for 4th ed. would be a huge boon.
As it stands, SJG doesn't see the demand for a new edition and neither do most GURPS players; which I understand, given SJG's rather anemic RPG-centric resources and the fact that the current edition is still perfectly serviceable as well as there being such a strong/extensive existing catalog. I appreciate the iterative design philosophy behind GURPS and I think that because of it, each edition's lifespan is increased pretty dramatically (minor nitpicks notwithstanding). I will never understand why people purchase "treadmill" RPGs designed to be re-released under an entirely revised design every 4-8 years, I vastly prefer incremental improvement (otherwise just make it a different game line, please).
Quote from: Antiquation!;1102047I'd love to see a GURPS 5th edition, though if it happens it's likely still a decade (or several) away. The current edition (4th) has been seeing some recent success with 3rd party licenses and several kickstarters along with continued releases by SJG (partly thanks to the reassigned manpower after being freed up from Pyramid Magazine), but at this point there have been enough of the cracks in the hull filled / wallpapered over with supplementary materials that I would really appreciate a consolidated edition with all the big / most effective changes implemented in the Basic Set. As much as I appreciate the breadth of material available for 4th edition, it gets annoying trying to remember which random article or buried sidebar has the tool I vaguely remember exists and that I want for a given campaign. At the very least a new Compendium for 4th ed. would be a huge boon.
As it stands, SJG doesn't see the demand for a new edition and neither do most GURPS players; which I understand, given SJG's rather anemic RPG-centric resources and the fact that the current edition is still perfectly serviceable as well as there being such a strong/extensive existing catalog. I appreciate the iterative design philosophy behind GURPS and I think that because of it, each edition's lifespan is increased pretty dramatically (minor nitpicks notwithstanding). I will never understand why people purchase "treadmill" RPGs designed to be re-released under an entirely revised design every 4-8 years, I vastly prefer incremental improvement (otherwise just make it a different game line, please).
I would love to see a GURPS 5e that was not called GURPS.
As in the idea of making a Generic Universal Roleplaying System that covers everything from "a squad of cops hunting down a serial killer to Dinosaur Wizards fighting intergalactic entropy in flying space mechs that transform" just seems appealing to me.
I think to really improve upon that idea, you have to take a step back and think about how things could be redone to be cleaner and inherently less crunchy while covering things in the same detail.
I think you end up with something closer to a Fudge/GURPS hybrid. Like maybe the core book doesn't have a hundred skills with specific default values, but it could have detailed instructions on how to make GURPS like skills and maybe have some core skills just about every campaign will use and then genre skills that just about every campaign in that genre will use.
Quote from: [BFading Suns:[/B] I have the 2nd edition, with the Victory Point System and useless introvert stats. I think Redbrick tried to redo it but it got axed, and then FASA did a 2nd revised? Don't know if they fixed any of the problems. I'd like them to scrap whatever has gone before and just port the thing over to an existing system. Savage Worlds would be my choice.
Someone actually did convert Fading Suns to Savage Worlds quite some time ago. It was a fan conversion but I think it was hosted at savageheroes.com, which seems to be gone now. There was also a FATE conversion somewhere as well.
EDIT: Also Redbrick DID do a 2nd ed revised but it didn't go to far now FASA has a 3rd edition.
Quote from: SavageSchemer;1102037The best summary of all that is wrong with it that I've come across is here (https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/cow2zs/what_is_your_opinion_on_7th_seas_system_and_why/ewllx78?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x).
Wick
is a bit of self-congratulatory a prat isn't he?
Mekton: The original Mekton was pretty disorganized and had everything crammed in together. It desperately needed Mekton II to come out. Mekton Zeta was good as well, but not needed as much as was Mekton II for that game line.
Quote from: Rhedyn;1102060I think to really improve upon that idea, you have to take a step back and think about how things could be redone to be cleaner and inherently less crunchy while covering things in the same detail.
Indeed, I agree there are several key areas in GURPS which could desperately use streamlining (and in some cases have been, addressed by the various aforementioned magazine articles or etc.; one easy example would be the massively easier/more table-friendly Slam rules integrated into the Dungeon Fantasy RPG which are now more-or-less accepted unilaterally by the GURPS community as being the "actual" slam rules; plus things like logarithmic strength scaling and re-scaled damage in general, armor rules patches, the default Magic being an utter relic of 3rd edition and being supplanted by a multitude of better variant magic systems since then, blah blah). There's enough information out there on GURPS' current shortcomings that being re-built from the ground up with those tweaks and patches would be hugely beneficial and IMO worthy of a new edition. It's a hard enough game to get into already without some of the most vital bits being scattered across x pages/books/etc.
On the other hand I definitely agree GURPS needs to keep its detail while still being smoothed out, optimized and polished as much as possible. As much as I love Fudge I do think they occupy different niches on the design spectrum, though GURPS could learn some things from Fudge especially with things like Scale rules which is one place where GURPS has the greatest tendency to fall on its face.
Quote from: Rhedyn;1102060Like maybe the core book doesn't have a hundred skills with specific default values, but it could have detailed instructions on how to make GURPS like skills and maybe have some core skills just about every campaign will use and then genre skills that just about every campaign in that genre will use.
There's some value there I think and there are many who agree the skill list is excessive (some people play using only Bang! skills), although IMO GURPS is so much of a toolkit already I think it might be crippled by becoming even more of one. If there's one complaint I have about Fudge it's the "just Fudge it!" motto and the fact that the core book does practically nothing for you in terms of legwork. I would also not want various disparate self-contained systems or skill lists scattered across multiple genre books such as the beast that 3rd edition turned into.
Quote from: Antiquation!;1102069There's some value there I think and there are many who agree the skill list is excessive (some people play using only Bang! skills), although IMO GURPS is so much of a toolkit already I think it might be crippled by becoming even more of one. If there's one complaint I have about Fudge it's the "just Fudge it!" motto and the fact that the core book does practically nothing for you in terms of legwork. I would also not want various disparate self-contained systems or skill lists scattered across multiple genre books such as the beast that 3rd edition turned into.
I think you get one book to sell the concept and that's where I see a GURPS 5e struggling. It would either need to cover all of 4e in one book or be backwards compatible.
Now if you don't call it GURPS then it just needs to stand on its own legs. I imagine something like Fudge 10th anniversary edition but with 3d6 as the core mechanic and instructions on how to make the system you need with many worked examples (working out examples is both instructional and gives things to steal). I personally find the prospect of running Fudge way easier than running GURPS, so I don't mind the idea of meta-toolkit (a toolkit to make toolkits).
Business model-wise, you make a free PDF version, then a premium version with rules instructions for things like mechs or a worked magic items creation system. Then you release campaign guides and supplements that lean on only the free core rules (as in steal the Stars Without Number business model).
Quote from: Rhedyn;1102080Now if you don't call it GURPS then it just needs to stand on its own legs. I imagine something like Fudge 10th anniversary edition but with 3d6 as the core mechanic and instructions on how to make the system you need with many worked examples (working out examples is both instructional and gives things to steal). I personally find the prospect of running Fudge way easier than running GURPS, so I don't mind the idea of meta-toolkit (a toolkit to make toolkits).
Hm, yeah, I could see that. I wouldn't mind a meta-toolkit either, but a dearth of worked examples is a must-have for me (main reason I still haven't given EABA v2 a proper go; I like being able to grab something and go without having to work it all out myself). Taking a GURPS spinoff in the general direction of Fudge seems like a sound idea though.
Quote from: Rhedyn;1102080Business model-wise, you make a free PDF version, then a premium version with rules instructions for things like mechs or a worked magic items creation system. Then you release campaign guides and supplements that lean on only the free core rules (as in steal the Stars Without Number business model).
I would love a modern hyperlinked PDF version of such a hypothetical game. I think with a lighter chassis like a Fudge-ized SWN core it would be much easier to quickly create a variety of solid supplements, too.
Quote from: SavageSchemer;11020377th Sea 2e was a hot mess. The setting itself is actually pretty good if you don't mind it being exactly Europe with the serial numbers filed off. The rules though. Holy fuck the rules are goddamned awful! The best summary of all that is wrong with it that I've come across is here (https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/cow2zs/what_is_your_opinion_on_7th_seas_system_and_why/ewllx78?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x).
That's a shame. I love the setting. Sounds like another one that would do well with Savage Worlds.
Quote from: Alamar;1102062Also Redbrick DID do a 2nd ed revised but it didn't go to far now FASA has a 3rd edition.
Right, I remember now. The original Redbrick designer wanted to redo the entire system, and the prototype was well-received, but he was abruptly let go. Redbrick quickly released a 2E Revised that really didn't change enough to justify a purchase.
1996 (1st edition)
1999 (2nd edition)
2001 (d20 edition)
2007 (2nd edition Revised)
??? (3rd edition)
Quote from: Antiquation!;1102047I'd love to see a GURPS 5th edition, though if it happens it's likely still a decade (or several) away.
I almost mentioned Gurps. 4E is 15 years old now (2004). By comparison, there have been three editions of D&D (almost) in that time:
2003 (D&D v3.5)
2008 (D&D 4th edition)
2014 (D&D 5th edition)
and if the pattern continues, we'll see D&D 6E before Gurps 5E.
Quote from: Aglondir;1102161That's a shame. I love the setting. Sounds like another one that would do well with Savage Worlds.
I actually think Savage Worlds would work quite well for the setting.
Quote from: SavageSchemer;1102170I actually think Savage Worlds would work quite well for the setting.
That's what I meant, but I said it awkwardly.
Quote from: Aglondir;1102175That's what I meant, but I said it awkwardly.
No you said it alright. I was just agreeing with you.
Hmm, lesse:
The Marvel Universe Role Playing Game: (a.k.a. "The one with the stones.") I played some of this game back around when it came out, and the stone juggling can be a pretty interesting mechanic and we managed to have a couple really "X-Men"/"New Mutants" moments, but the game needed to be tightened up pretty badly. Like, the text claims you can play the game in an "It's Clobberin' Time!" mode where you and a friend slug it out to see who is better, but the game would need to tighten up some stuff around initiative to make that work, and there were other wacky balance issues that had the potential to be landmines. Basically, I find the core mechanic intriguing and refreshingly different, but it needed a 2nd edition to iron out the biggest balance bumps and clarify some parts of the action.
Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game: (a.k.a. "The best RPG White Wolf ever made.") I played tons and tons of this game. It has some flaky rules in later supplements, it has awful art, it has editing problems and isn't super clear on how Willpower should be spent. The game was released in the Street Fighter 2 era before we even knew of Akuma/Gouki, and so invented some silly non-canon lore. Even with all of that, it was a very fun and playable RPG. My dream 2nd edition would be more beautiful in the art department, pull in all of the lore, characters and styles from the later Capcom fighters, including Dark Stalkers, or Final Fight, Saturday Night Slam Masters, etc., and of course clean up and polish the fairly solid base of the current rules (rework the whole "Unique Backgrounds" concept, etc.).
Get those made, and basically RPGs will have been saved for a generation.
Thanks
Basic D&D
Classic Traveller
FTL: 2448
Star Wars d6 1st edition.
That's right, I said it!
I'm talking about a proper 2nd edition.
1e SWd6 was a very clever and well done/organized game that got a lot of things right straight out of the gate.
Of course it had it's issues being a first edition and all. Like adding dice when the diepools got beyond 5 dice or so, how force users interacted with other PC's etc...
Issues that were promptly ignored, and pasted over with the wild die to make everything better!
But hey! It's the StarWars IP, and gamers love to get their official star wars RPG on.
Virtually regardless of system (proven by SWd20, and FFG's funky die abortion.)
Quote from: Aglondir;1102168I almost mentioned Gurps. 4E is 15 years old now (2004). By comparison, there have been three editions of D&D (almost) in that time:
2003 (D&D v3.5)
2008 (D&D 4th edition)
2014 (D&D 5th edition)
and if the pattern continues, we'll see D&D 6E before Gurps 5E.
Exactly! It would drive me mad trying to keep up. But then, I suppose I
am the one yearning for a GURPS 5th so...
I would have loved to have seen an MURPG second edition. They were so close to a good, playable game.
Quote from: Aglondir;1102008Inspired by this (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?41052-RPGs-that-will-never-have-a-2nd-edition)recent thread (RPGs that will never have a 2nd edition) I ask:
What games need(ed) a 2nd edition? Note the past tense, We can include games that had a 1st edition, but are so long gone that there's probably no hope of them ever seeing another life. And just to make it more interesting, feel free to swap out 2nd edition for "new edition." Here are my top 3:
7th Sea: A lot of people had a problem with their fantasy Europe, but IMO realistic geography means nothing in Swashbuckling Land. My problem was the system. It was pretty clunky, with attributes way more important than skills. The magic system was all over the place. Has the second edition fixed anything?
Did you miss this? https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/185462/7th-Sea-Core-Rulebook-Second-Edition
Shadowrun. I recall when 2e came out, I was a bit miffed, because 1e hadn't even been out for very long. I saw it as a cashgrab, but after playing 2e, I began to see what a hot mess 1e really was.
I will second the Marvel Super Hero RPG from TSR and Street Fighter: They Storytelling game. A second edition of the Marvel diceless game would have been interesting too. From what I remember, they were working on a Spider-Man book and Marvel shut the game down without giving anyone any notice.
As for 7th Sea, yeah, it needed a second edition, but the second edition we got is...just..blech. The lore and setting are just as good, if not better, than the original. The rules are utter crap, IMHO. The players only fail when they say they do. You can't get to the edge of your seat when you or another player are rolling dice to see if you succeed or fail. You roll your skill and trait and add the dice up to groups of ten, called Raises. You then spend those Raises on actions in the scene. There is no Dodge skill. Why? "Because it's boring" according to Mr. Wick, or should I say Mr. Pretentious. Guess what, not everyone is a quick thinker and can come up with something on the fly. Traits are another issue I have with the game. You can only have a maximum of 15 points to spread between the 5 Traits, and they must be a 2 or higher. WTF!!! So the best stat line you can every have is 5, 4, 2, 2, 2. If you want a 3 in anything, forget about having a 5. I played in a 1st edition game that ran for at least two years, and my Montainge musketeer had all 5 in traits. Granted, the GM could have handed out a lot less XP, but I feel that I earned that stat line for how long we played. So, according to Mr. Wick, there is no reward for playing my character for a long time, other than improved skills. This is the first time I've seen a system with such constraining stat improvement since AD&D 2nd edition.
He should have just made a 1.5 edition or done a Savage Worlds conversion. I'm wondering, though, if we could get a 3rd edition using the system for Call of Cthulu since Chaosium owns it now. But, with the way Mr. Wick is, it probably won't happen.
Another vote for the Marvel Diceless game. It's an interesting mechanic (resource management rather than relying on dice) but there were a number of flaws off the top of my head:
1) Blowing all your stones in the first round of combat. If you had a lousy recovery rate or weren't loaded down with free stones from modifiers and your opponent was, you were basically screwed. That's where dice might have helped to give you an unexpected boost or edge.
2) The books were confusing at times, and broken at others. Needed a front to back rewrite and plug some of the loopholes min maxers could come up with to create a starting character that could one shot Thor. I've seen em (PSI Weapon stands out) and it's mind boggling what people can come up with.
There were others but aside from more powers/actions/modifiers nothing stood out. I played on the MURPG forum (and GM'd a lot years ago) and worked round the problems, concentrating more on Role not Roll play, so to speak.
If I were fixing it?
Energy stones multiply stats, then add Action. E.g. Spiderman (Strength 5) punches Scorpion. he puts 5 stones (his maximum without pushing) into Strength for 5 x 5 (25) then Adds Close Combat for a total of 28. Doing it this way means that Thor has to use barely any effort (with Strength 10) to beat Spiderman in an arm wrestle, and rightly so. Spiderman uses 5 energy for 5x5 (25) and Thor uses 3 energy for 3x10 (30) and doesn't even break a sweat.
Something like that anyway. I've toyed with all sorts over the years including (recently) using energy to buy dice and step up/down to use mechanics from MURPG and Marvel Heroic (which I just couldn't love, despite being great to look at and relatively easy to play).
Marvel Saga (the card based game) also deserves a second look, in my opinion.
Quote from: Aglondir;1102008D20 Modern: Would love to see WOTC retool this for 5th Edition D&D. I'm sure someone has done this by now, right? Is it any good?
Amen to that. What I'd really like to see is a point-buy 5e modern with no levels and no classes (except those bought as kits or bundles or whatever).
And War of the Lance 5e. And Dark Sun 5e. And Star Frontiers 5e. And Gamma World 5e. And Spelljammer 5e.
Quote from: Gagarth;1103134Did you miss this? https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/185462/7th-Sea-Core-Rulebook-Second-Edition
Nobody missed it, 7th Sea Second edition just, unfortunately, did not solve many of the issues people had with 1st edition 7th Sea. In fact, you can kind of say it just invented a whole passel of new problems.
7th Sea 1st edition, had a very fun, if deeply flawed, mechanical sword dueling system. As well as interesting magic system. 2nd edition decided to run in the complete other direction and eschewed being mechanically interesting and became a pure story game. Your skills and abilities don't really matter much in 7th sea, it's one of those very wishy washy fail forward systems.
As for the setting changes, some of them were good, but many of them were also very bad. A lot of conflict in the setting has been straight up removed. Vesten for example, had the cultural riff between the modernists in it, who had turned it into a trading empire... and the old ways Vikings, who followed traditional ways of doing things, because it was metaphysically important. 2nd edition got rid of this, so now the Vikings and Tradesman are hunky dory with each other. Which means there is no conflict in Vesten, it's a boring nation.
Allande who was leader of the Brotherhood of the Coast was gender swapped to being a woman, and no longer the older sibling of the King of Castille... The Brotherhood of the Coast is no longer the first real modern Democratic Society of Theah either... which means they're just another pirate organization.
Reasie, the former 7ft tall Sycthe Wielding most terrifying Pirate of the High seas is now a woman as well. 7th sea was already a very progressive setting with tons of female NPC leaders and characters back in 1st edition, so I don't know why there was a need to start gender swapping some of the established ones.. but hey.
Dracheneisen went from being this very cool thing players could have and wear by taking the right advantages, to a super rare item that can only be used by the Black Knight monster hunting secret society. Dracheneisen also is only used to detect and hurt monsters now, rather than being this interesting super armor that could stop bullets. Eisen also lost it's old signature sorcery that belonged to it's old nobilty, "Rote" which rotted things, and instead got "Hexenwork" which is basically being a Witcher.
Avalon's magic changed from being a myth focused Fae Glamor system that anyone from a Noble to a common farmer could be born with... to a type of magic based off of the Holy Grail and the Knights of the Round Table. There is always a finite number of Glamour users, so in order to be one, you HAVE to be one of these Knights.
Basically, it's almost an entirely different setting. The best comparison is Vampire: The Masquerade to Vampire: The Requiem..... Both games are about Vampires and share some common names and abilities, but are completely different settings...
7th Sea second edition makes all 1st edition Setting material obsolete. Not only mechanic wise but setting wise to. Which is a shame, because most of us just wanted a tightened up system, and an expanded setting... not one that was basically a whole new game in most ways.
For my money, if you want Swash Buckling adventure... You cannot go wrong with "Honor and Intrigue".https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/99286/Honor--Intrigue
Wrath & Glory could use a second edition, preferably before they waste more time & money on supplements for the dreadful first edition.
Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1102190Basic D&D
Classic Traveller
FTL: 2448
Totally disagree re. Traveller. They caught lightning in a bottle the first time. It's all been downhill since then*. I saw a review of a later edition that described the degeneration of Traveller as being the RPG equivalent of hillbilly incest cloning, which is harsh but funny.
*OK not quite, T4 was an improvement on TNE in my opinion, but T5 is another step down.
Only games that were crucially flawed mechanically speaking really needed a 2nd edition. Space:1889 comes to mind. Too bad it never got one.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1120733Only games that were crucially flawed mechanically speaking really needed a 2nd edition. Space:1889 comes to mind. Too bad it never got one.
It got a Savage Worlds conversion.
Quote from: Rhedyn;1120762It got a Savage Worlds conversion.
And a Ubiquity conversion.
Quote from: Rhedyn;1120762It got a Savage Worlds conversion.
Yeah, that's not a new edition, that's euthanasia.
What about a third edition Luftwaffe 1946 that would go down well.:D
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4168[/ATTACH]
No I haven't played it and I am not remotely interested in playing it.
Not sure if this was the one a few others referred to (since there's been a couple of Marvel RPGs), but Imma vote for the old TSR Marvel Super Heroes RPG (FASERIP). It was an awesome, very simple yet extremely versatile systems that could handle a lot of stuff despite its simplicity, and only had a few quirks that didn't work very well (such as lack of random damage). A revised edition to work out the kinks, with expanded options and such, would have been awesome.
Quote from: Morlock;1120220Amen to that. What I'd really like to see is a point-buy 5e modern with no levels and no classes (except those bought as kits or bundles or whatever).
And War of the Lance 5e. And Dark Sun 5e. And Star Frontiers 5e. And Gamma World 5e. And Spelljammer 5e.
My main issue about a Dark Sun 5e is that they would pile a bunch of recent edition D&D assumptions, like adding Tiefling and Dragonborn (cuz they have to "exist" in every D&D world now, despite being made up fanservice BS) and a bunch of other races that were not supposed to exist in OG Dark Sun and actually go against the world's lore, given that there was supposed to be this giant race war in Dark Sun that killed off several races (including Gnomes and Orcs).
I also don't like a lot of material that was added to Dark Sun in later supplements (expanding beyond the Tyr region, adding Aarakocra and Pterran, which didn't exist originally, etc.) cuz they were created after Troy Denning left the project and didn't follow his vision or "feel" like proper Dark Sun stuff--more like arbitrary fanfic crap added by other people afterward. Almost makes me wanna go back to AD&D 2e just to play Dark Sun (though, 2e has its share of issues as an edition), rather than tar the setting with current year BS.
5e would also need a decent Psionics supplement first, since they're central to the setting.
EDIT: I would also second a classless/level-less and point-buy version of 5e, cuz I don't like class & level structures very much, and I think that as of 5e level-based progression has become redundant and almost completely reliant on bloated class features stretched out across levels in order to justify the existence of a 20 level progression. If +6 is the highest roll bonus you're ever going to achieve (other than Ability Score modifiers) and Combat Modifiers/Thac0 and Saving Throw progression no longer exist, then you don't really need 20 levels. You just need to keep track of your +2 to +6 "proficiency" modifier, which could just as well be "leveled"/improved separately for each proficiency in a level-less system, then buy a few additional class-like features separately on a case by case basis.
Quote from: Gagarth;1122808What about a third edition Luftwaffe 1946 that would go down well.:D
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4168[/ATTACH]
No I haven't played it and I am not remotely interested in playing it.
What I really wanna know is why a 1946 game has very early-war planes like the Bf 109E and the I-16 on the cover...
/pedant
Quote from: Orphan81;1120232...
For my money, if you want Swash Buckling adventure... You cannot go wrong with "Honor and Intrigue".https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/99286/Honor--Intrigue
+This.
Just ran a one shot for my normal Sunday group last weekend while the D&D GM was at a con.
Plays much better than it reads, and the fencing system works as advertised.
And while it could certainly use as pass through for a tightened up 2nd edition (and actual art direction); it is one of those game where the first edition got a lot right straight out of the gate.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1120733Only games that were crucially flawed mechanically speaking really needed a 2nd edition. Space:1889 comes to mind. Too bad it never got one.
Quote from: Rhedyn;1120762It got a Savage Worlds conversion.
Quote from: Gagarth;1120844And a Ubiquity conversion.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1121420Yeah, that's not a new edition, that's euthanasia.
This is a textbook example of what speaking truth to power looks like.
Savage worlds? Ubiquity? Why would you do that to yourself?
(I readily admit I'm very biased against anything savage worlds - that system just seems to tick all my 'don't make an rpg like this' buttons.)
Quote from: Jaeger;1122815(I readily admit I'm very biased against anything savage worlds - that system just seems to tick all my 'don't make an rpg like this' buttons.)
Would you mind stating what those buttons are and why they are buttons for you?
Chaosium's Worlds of Wonder (http://www.waynesbooks.com/Chaosium.html#wow) could have been the dawn of a generic BRP system, but it was too bare-bones to get anyone using it. In addition, even within those <20 page booklets there were a lot of rules differences between the "worlds", so it wasn't really a universal system - the common core was just too small. A second edition could have pulled it together, and made different settings mere add-ons rather than completely new games where you had to re-learn all the rules (and be careful you were not mis-remembering stuff from another game in the line). Chaosium took the latter route, and still sticks to it today. The big gold book edition of BRP highlights just how many parallel developments there were of the system.
(http://www.waynesbooks.com/images/graphics/worldsofwonderset.jpg)