Quote from: Aglondir;1102161That's a shame. I love the setting. Sounds like another one that would do well with Savage Worlds.

I actually think Savage Worlds would work quite well for the setting.

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1102170I actually think Savage Worlds would work quite well for the setting.

That's what I meant, but I said it awkwardly.

Quote from: Aglondir;1102175That's what I meant, but I said it awkwardly.

No you said it alright. I was just agreeing with you.

Hmm, lesse:

The Marvel Universe Role Playing Game: (a.k.a. "The one with the stones.") I played some of this game back around when it came out, and the stone juggling can be a pretty interesting mechanic and we managed to have a couple really "X-Men"/"New Mutants" moments, but the game needed to be tightened up pretty badly. Like, the text claims you can play the game in an "It's Clobberin' Time!" mode where you and a friend slug it out to see who is better, but the game would need to tighten up some stuff around initiative to make that work, and there were other wacky balance issues that had the potential to be landmines. Basically, I find the core mechanic intriguing and refreshingly different, but it needed a 2nd edition to iron out the biggest balance bumps and clarify some parts of the action.

Street Fighter: The Storytelling Game: (a.k.a. "The best RPG White Wolf ever made.") I played tons and tons of this game. It has some flaky rules in later supplements, it has awful art, it has editing problems and isn't super clear on how Willpower should be spent. The game was released in the Street Fighter 2 era before we even knew of Akuma/Gouki, and so invented some silly non-canon lore. Even with all of that, it was a very fun and playable RPG. My dream 2nd edition would be more beautiful in the art department, pull in all of the lore, characters and styles from the later Capcom fighters, including Dark Stalkers, or Final Fight, Saturday Night Slam Masters, etc., and of course clean up and polish the fairly solid base of the current rules (rework the whole "Unique Backgrounds" concept, etc.).

Get those made, and basically RPGs will have been saved for a generation.

Thanks

Basic D&D
Classic Traveller
FTL: 2448

Star Wars d6 1st edition.

That's right, I said it!

I'm talking about a proper 2nd edition.

1e SWd6 was a very clever and well done/organized game that got a lot of things right straight out of the gate.

Of course it had it's issues being a first edition and all. Like adding dice when the diepools got beyond 5 dice or so, how force users interacted with other PC's etc...

Issues that were promptly ignored, and pasted over with the wild die to make everything better!

But hey! It's the StarWars IP, and gamers love to get their official star wars RPG on.

Virtually regardless of system (proven by SWd20, and FFG's funky die abortion.)

Quote from: Aglondir;1102168I almost mentioned Gurps. 4E is 15 years old now (2004). By comparison, there have been three editions of D&D (almost) in that time:

2003 (D&D v3.5)
2008 (D&D 4th edition)
2014 (D&D 5th edition)

and if the pattern continues, we'll see D&D 6E before Gurps 5E.

Exactly! It would drive me mad trying to keep up. But then, I suppose I am the one yearning for a GURPS 5th so...

I would have loved to have seen an MURPG second edition. They were so close to a good, playable game.

Quote from: Aglondir;1102008Inspired by this recent thread (RPGs that will never have a 2nd edition) I ask:

What games need(ed) a 2nd edition? Note the past tense, We can include games that had a 1st edition, but are so long gone that there's probably no hope of them ever seeing another life. And just to make it more interesting, feel free to swap out 2nd edition for "new edition." Here are my top 3:

7th Sea: A lot of people had a problem with their fantasy Europe, but IMO realistic geography means nothing in Swashbuckling Land. My problem was the system. It was pretty clunky, with attributes way more important than skills. The magic system was all over the place. Has the second edition fixed anything?

Did you miss this? https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/185462/7th-Sea-Core-Rulebook-Second-Edition

Shadowrun. I recall when 2e came out, I was a bit miffed, because 1e hadn't even been out for very long. I saw it as a cashgrab, but after playing 2e, I began to see what a hot mess 1e really was.

I will second the Marvel Super Hero RPG from TSR and Street Fighter: They Storytelling game. A second edition of the Marvel diceless game would have been interesting too. From what I remember, they were working on a Spider-Man book and Marvel shut the game down without giving anyone any notice.

As for 7th Sea, yeah, it needed a second edition, but the second edition we got is...just..blech. The lore and setting are just as good, if not better, than the original. The rules are utter crap, IMHO. The players only fail when they say they do. You can't get to the edge of your seat when you or another player are rolling dice to see if you succeed or fail. You roll your skill and trait and add the dice up to groups of ten, called Raises. You then spend those Raises on actions in the scene. There is no Dodge skill. Why? "Because it's boring" according to Mr. Wick, or should I say Mr. Pretentious. Guess what, not everyone is a quick thinker and can come up with something on the fly.  Traits are another issue I have with the game. You can only have a maximum of 15 points to spread between the 5 Traits, and they must be a 2 or higher. WTF!!! So the best stat line you can every have is 5, 4, 2, 2, 2. If you want a 3 in anything, forget about having a 5. I played in a 1st edition game that ran for at least two years, and my Montainge musketeer had all 5 in traits. Granted, the GM could have handed out a lot less XP, but I feel that I earned that stat line for how long we played. So, according to Mr. Wick, there is no reward for playing my character for a long time, other than improved skills. This is the first time I've seen a system with such constraining stat improvement since AD&D 2nd edition.

He should have just made a 1.5 edition or done a Savage Worlds conversion. I'm wondering, though, if we could get a 3rd edition using the system for Call of Cthulu since Chaosium owns it now. But, with the way Mr. Wick is, it probably won't happen.

Another vote for the Marvel Diceless game. It's an interesting mechanic (resource management rather than relying on dice) but there were a number of flaws off the top of my head:

1) Blowing all your stones in the first round of combat. If you had a lousy recovery rate or weren't loaded down with free stones from modifiers and your opponent was, you were basically screwed. That's where dice might have helped to give you an unexpected boost or edge.

2) The books were confusing at times, and broken at others. Needed a front to back rewrite and plug some of the loopholes min maxers could come up with to create a starting character that could one shot Thor. I've seen em (PSI Weapon stands out) and it's mind boggling what people can come up with.

There were others but aside from more powers/actions/modifiers nothing stood out. I played on the MURPG forum (and GM'd a lot years ago) and worked round the problems, concentrating more on Role not Roll play, so to speak.

If I were fixing it?

Energy stones multiply stats, then add Action. E.g. Spiderman (Strength 5) punches Scorpion. he puts 5 stones (his maximum without pushing) into Strength for 5 x 5 (25) then Adds Close Combat for a total of 28. Doing it this way means that Thor has to use barely any effort (with Strength 10) to beat Spiderman in an arm wrestle, and rightly so. Spiderman uses 5 energy for 5x5 (25) and Thor uses 3 energy for 3x10 (30) and doesn't even break a sweat.

Something like that anyway. I've toyed with all sorts over the years including (recently) using energy to buy dice and step up/down to use mechanics from MURPG and Marvel Heroic (which I just couldn't love, despite being great to look at and relatively easy to play).

Marvel Saga (the card based game) also deserves a second look, in my opinion.

Quote from: Aglondir;1102008D20 Modern: Would love to see WOTC retool this for 5th Edition D&D. I'm sure someone has done this by now, right? Is it any good?

Amen to that. What I'd really like to see is a point-buy 5e modern with no levels and no classes (except those bought as kits or bundles or whatever).

And War of the Lance 5e. And Dark Sun 5e. And Star Frontiers 5e. And Gamma World 5e. And Spelljammer 5e.

Quote from: Gagarth;1103134Did you miss this? https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/185462/7th-Sea-Core-Rulebook-Second-Edition

Nobody missed it, 7th Sea Second edition just, unfortunately, did not solve many of the issues people had with 1st edition 7th Sea. In fact, you can kind of say it just invented a whole passel of new problems.

7th Sea 1st edition, had a very fun, if deeply flawed, mechanical sword dueling system. As well as interesting magic system. 2nd edition decided to run in the complete other direction and eschewed being mechanically interesting and became a pure story game. Your skills and abilities don't really matter much in 7th sea, it's one of those very wishy washy fail forward systems.

As for the setting changes, some of them were good, but many of them were also very bad. A lot of conflict in the setting has been straight up removed. Vesten for example, had the cultural riff between the modernists in it, who had turned it into a trading empire... and the old ways Vikings, who followed traditional ways of doing things, because it was metaphysically important. 2nd edition got rid of this, so now the Vikings and Tradesman are hunky dory with each other. Which means there is no conflict in Vesten, it's a boring nation.

Allande who was leader of the Brotherhood of the Coast was gender swapped to being a woman, and no longer the older sibling of the King of Castille... The Brotherhood of the Coast is no longer the first real modern Democratic Society of Theah either... which means they're just another pirate organization.

Reasie, the former 7ft tall Sycthe Wielding most terrifying Pirate of the High seas is now a woman as well. 7th sea was already a very progressive setting with tons of female NPC leaders and characters back in 1st edition, so I don't know why there was a need to start gender swapping some of the established ones.. but hey.

Dracheneisen went from being this very cool thing players could have and wear by taking the right advantages, to a super rare item that can only be used by the Black Knight monster hunting secret society. Dracheneisen also is only used to detect and hurt monsters now, rather than being this interesting super armor that could stop bullets. Eisen also lost it's old signature sorcery that belonged to it's old nobilty, "Rote" which rotted things, and instead got "Hexenwork" which is basically being a Witcher.

Avalon's magic changed from being a myth focused Fae Glamor system that anyone from a Noble to a common farmer could be born with... to a type of magic based off of the Holy Grail and the Knights of the Round Table. There is always a finite number of Glamour users, so in order to be one, you HAVE to be one of these Knights.

Basically, it's almost an entirely different setting. The best comparison is Vampire: The Masquerade to Vampire: The Requiem..... Both games are about Vampires and share some common names and abilities, but are completely different settings...

7th Sea second edition makes all 1st edition Setting material obsolete. Not only mechanic wise but setting wise to. Which is a shame, because most of us just wanted a tightened up system, and an expanded setting... not one that was basically a whole new game in most ways.

For my money, if you want Swash Buckling adventure... You cannot go wrong with "Honor and Intrigue".https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/99286/Honor--Intrigue

Wrath & Glory could use a second edition, preferably before they waste more time & money on supplements for the dreadful first edition.