Quote from: WerekoalaThat's pretty much the whole Goth subculture, 'innit? And a large portion of the Gamer one as well, I'm afraid. That way leads to Dragonkin and the like.

Yup, and its pathetic.

RPGPundit

Quote from: WerekoalaHey, now, that's not what *I did! I perished in self-hating fire, taking as many of the devil-spawn with me as I could.

Yeah, except that as someone else pointed out, that's essentially intentionally "wrecking" the game.  Everyone knows the point of Vampire is to pretend to lament your humanity while actually being a sociopathic monster masked as a black-beret-wearing beautiful dilettante.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditAdventure!, premises that you can't be a normal human Pulp hero. No, you have to receive weird cosmic beams in order to be that, and all the pulp heros are actually not normal humans anymore.

Needless insults aside, you're right on this issue.  And it's precisely what got me off of White Wolf games years ago -- there's never any provision for boot-strapping, bettering yourself by virtue of innate talents or force of will.  Everything cool comes from an outside force acting upon you.  Which, by the way, is precisely why I think that Batman or Green Arrow are much cooler than Superman, or even Captain America.

!i!

Quote from: RPGPunditRandean thought would usually imply that there's a certain class of human that's just better people than a certain other class.

That class would generally be known as "people who bust their ass to achieve the maximum potential". But there's nothing pre-ordained about who those people are. Anyone can become a Randian ubermensch, theoretically.

Quote from: RPGPunditYeah, except that as someone else pointed out, that's essentially intentionally "wrecking" the game.  Everyone knows the point of Vampire is to pretend to lament your humanity while actually being a sociopathic monster masked as a black-beret-wearing beautiful dilettante.

Dare to be different, I say.

Reminds me of the Goth kids on South Park who all dress alike, listen to the same music, etc. because they're not going to be "conformists' like the rest of the blind sheep.

Quote from: WerekoalaThat class would generally be known as "people who bust their ass to achieve the maximum potential". But there's nothing pre-ordained about who those people are. Anyone can become a Randian ubermensch, theoretically.

Ok, that makes Objectivism better than fascism. Congratulations, great accomplishment.

RPGPundit

Quote from: WerekoalaAnyone can become a Randian ubermensch, theoretically.

Only if it doesn't interfere with the needs of someone who is innately better, or if that better person foolishly allows a lesser person do so.

There's an ugly subtext to Randian thought.

!i!

Quote from: WerekoalaDare to be different, I say.

Reminds me of the Goth kids on South Park who all dress alike, listen to the same music, etc. because they're not going to be "conformists' like the rest of the blind sheep.

You don't have to tell me. I played a mad fat kilt-wearing scotsman vampire, fake accent and everything, named "Smiley", who's only response to everything was to charge at it with his Claymore. This was at a con game; the four players who'd never played WW games before (about half the people at the table) loved it and got all into it; the other half (the WW-swine at the table) hated me for it and I reveled in the seething rage in their eyes as they saw me daring to mock their one refuge from confronting the reality of their pathetic loser-lives.  
The way I see it, I saved four kids that day, from a potential lifetime of Swine gaming and possibly escapist apologetics for their flaws rather than doing the human thing and actually working on themselves to stop being such fucking losers.
Amazing what a well-timed Scottish-madman-with-a-kilt-and-claymore can do.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditAlso, as for Atlas Shrugged, this is all I have to say about it:

Totally misrepresents the point of the novel, but otherwise it was stupid.

"Government coercion" - Riiight. The Movers not knowing how to make their own lunch. Riiiight. Servants. Who in that book had servants? Seems to me it was the "government first" types they were fighting against - most of which I will remind you were ALSO rich, but go so off the sweat of the commoners brow and through taxation, whereas the Movers used their brains to achieve their position in life. Dagny didn't have servants that I can recall. Hank Rearden didn't. Galt didn't.

People really ought to at least attempt to understand something before they trash it.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaOnly if it doesn't interfere with the needs of someone who is innately better, or if that better person foolishly allows a lesser person do so.

There is no "inately" anything in objectivism. Its about effort, not genetics. Read the books sometime.

Quote from: WerekoalaThere is no "inately" anything in objectivism. Its about effort, not genetics. Read the books sometime.

Poor choice of words.  I've read the books.  Ugly subtext. Specious reasoning.

!i!

Well, can't help it if you interpreted it differently than I did. Guess that's what happens when two different folks read the same thing.

Quote from: SosthenesNow show me hordes of Vagabonds proclaiming that they're inherently superior to humans and we can talk. More likely, you'll find a bunch of guys singing "Gypsies, tramps and thieves".

Actually, I was offering up the Vagabond as evidence that Rifts did not have the same ubermenschian trappings as Vampire and such.

Pierce:  I'd totally play a Vagabond with the right group.

Quote from: WerekoalaWell, can't help it if you interpreted it differently than I did. Guess that's what happens when two different folks read the same thing.

And also when two different philosophies, applied with pragmatic moderation, arrive at the same desired outcome.  More than one way to skin a cat and all that.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaAnd also when two different philosophies, applied with pragmatic moderation, arrive at the same desired outcome.  More than one way to skin a cat and all that.

Agreed. There is no "One True Way", and anyone trying to tell you there is, is trying to take your wallet.