Quote from: StumpydaveThat'd be me.

Sadly, you'll find very little love for the concept of a single ruler, the embodiment of the state, genuinely motivated to move for the good of the citizenry around here. That we're bad at it apparently makes it a bad idea.

Quote from: StumpydaveThat'd be me.

Sorry for calling you a throwback, man, but I've no love for kings. I can't help but feel that monarchy is a drastic, drastic step backwards and have seen little to prove otherwise. Lest this become a thread about, er, the virtues of monarchy, you can PM me or start a new thread in Off Topic if you feel the need to discuss it further though. I'll be happy to converse with you.

Quote from: RPGPunditTry calling one of the RPG.net mods a "twat" and see if you still believe this after that.

RPGPundit

All you do is rant and rave. That's it. YOu seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder and a need to slam everything and everyone who doesn't share your views. How on earth anyone can seriously believe that WW are actually anti-science and anti-western civilisation is so laughable it beggars belief.

...because the default WW setting IS anti-science?

 It is the World of Darkness after all.

NOT the "World of Enlightenment".


- Ed C.

Quote from: RPGPunditHave they gotten less openly hostile to regular gamers?

They're regular gamers, you moron. WW is as mainstream as you can get. Stop living in the 90's.

Quote from: RPGPunditYou see it in little comments like the "Roll playing vs. role playing" comment in the new WoD book.

You may be referring to this quote from page 188 of the WoD core:

QuoteAnd that brings us to Storytelling. Many roleplaying games are more concerned with rules and statistics than the drama created within the game. Some people call those roll-playing games, since they're more focused on dice rolling than role-playing. Storytelling certainly provides for a simple and consistent set of rules, but it seeks more than just dice rolls and character sheets. Storytelling is about drama, the wonder of a make-believe tale told by the players.
[Snip paragraph about how storytelling may be an art form, and how everyone who's played RPGs long enough has experienced a moment in which everyone clicked in its place and it was wonderful. No, there are no references to D&D here.]
Just don't get lost in the Ivory Tower. Don't deride those who see gaming as a fun hobby (which it is), or those whose roleplaying stories don't aim higher. Instead encourage and persuade players to stretch their boundaries. Storytelling is about achieving something great through an interactive tale, but not at the expense of fun.

Wow, it seems that you argument is, as usual, a crock of shit. So, they say "RPGs are fun and good, but we think they can be something more. Don't mock people who just want to roll dice and eat cheetos. If possible, try to persuade them to try something new, but remember that fun is the most important thing."

Which has shit to do with any of the bullshit you have spouted. There it goes your gonzo journalism, that is, if by 'gonzo' you really mean 'retarded and false bullshit.'

Quote from: RPGPunditThey haven't apologized for it.

You are out of your fucking mind. Apologize? When are you going to apologize for all the lies, insults and bullshit that you spit like a stream of shit? Apologize for publishing the games they like? That must be the most retarded thing I've read this week.

Quote from: RPGPunditThey've just realized that, having lost the war, they now have to hide their real feelings.

This is a war about feelings, uh? What a pussy.

RPGPundit[/quote]

Quote from: RPGPunditThey still believe in everything they always did. They haven't apologized for it. They've just realized that, having lost the war, they now have to hide their real feelings.

RPGPundit

Yup. It's called "selling out." Here's White Wolf selling out in 1994.



But here's the part I really like. Look at the title, does it say "Streetfighter: The roleplaying game?"

Quote from: malleus arianorumYup. It's called "selling out." Here's White Wolf selling out in 1994.



But here's the part I really like. Look at the title, does it say "Streetfighter: The roleplaying game?"

What's wrong with designing a Streetfighter rpg? How and why is that deemed selling out?

Quote from: Koltar...because the default WW setting IS anti-science?

 It is the World of Darkness after all.

NOT the "World of Enlightenment".


- Ed C.

Ok, so anyone who writes FICTION believes their FICTION is actually reality now?

So JK Rowling really believes there are child wizards who go to a magical school?

Anne Rice really believes in vampiress?

etc?

So WW design a supernatural game setting automatically means they are commercial sellouts whose work is nothing more than wierdo propaganda?

:rolleyes:

Quote from: Koltar...because the default WW setting IS anti-science?

 It is the World of Darkness after all.

NOT the "World of Enlightenment".


- Ed C.

Dude, that's the cheapest reading I've seen since people got all their information off the back of the Exalted cover. Come back with something substantive to say, or don't come back at all. >.>

I mean, seriously. Nothing personal, but do you really think you summed up the whole fucking gameline's views on science because you noticed the light-level on the gameline's title? Is Traveller anti-home because you're travelling? Whatever. :rolleyes:

Quote from: malleus arianorumYup. It's called "selling out." Here's White Wolf selling out in 1994.

But here's the part I really like. Look at the title, does it say "Streetfighter: The roleplaying game?"

What it proves is that there's nothing WW could ever do, at all, to make some people happy. When they try to go high brow, they're pretentious ass-holes who disdain the 'common' gamer. When they publish a kung-fu game with superpowers and no pretentions to be anything but a bizzare game about ninja beastmen with electric powers and psionic facists from Thailand fighting communist wrestlers and stoic karate masters, they're selling out.

Bullshit, dude.

Lets look at that quote with the right emphasis, shall we??

QuoteAnd that brings us to Storytelling. Many roleplaying games are more concerned with rules and statistics than the drama created within the game. Some people call those roll-playing games, since they're more focused on dice rolling than role-playing. Storytelling certainly provides for a simple and consistent set of rules, but it seeks more than just dice rolls and character sheets. Storytelling is about drama, the wonder of a make-believe tale told by the players.
[Snip paragraph about how storytelling may be an art form, and how everyone who's played RPGs long enough has experienced a moment in which everyone clicked in its place and it was wonderful. No, there are no references to D&D here. RPGPundit: no, there isn't but there's some very pretentious shit about how brilliant WoD is]
Just don't get lost in the Ivory Tower. Don't deride those who see gaming as a fun hobby (which it is), or those whose roleplaying stories don't aim higher. Instead encourage and persuade players to stretch their boundaries. Storytelling is about achieving something great through an interactive tale, but not at the expense of fun.

In other words, its saying: "regular gamers are pathetic roll-players; but don't be mean to them because we're losing market share!! Go out there and convert them! They're poor retarded souls who need to be re-educated by you, the story-based heros who know how to be all intelligent and sophisticated in your play, unlike those dungeon-crawling boors!"

That's what its saying, fucker. Its hiding in it in nicer words than Marc Rein·Hagen would have, only because White Wolf is now a shadow of its former self and knows its lost the war. But its just as pretentious as always, and seems to be trying to create its own evangelizing-cult mentality (inspired by the Forge no doubt) to try to survive.  Fortunately, that sort of shit just isn't going to work for them the way it does for the Cult of Ron, because they're two very different phenomena.

RPGPundit

It's just another WW rant thread, isn't it? I got suckered into thinking we were discussing something in particular.

Quote from: Thanatos02It's just another WW rant thread, isn't it?

He operates this whole board as an anti-WW/anti-Forge site.  Fortunately, the overwhelming majority of people here have made something more of it.

!i!

Quote from: RPGPunditIn other words,

There's your problem right there.

I see no need to assume some deeper darker subtext, so why do you?

The fact you think it's a war says it all.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaHe operates this whole board as an anti-WW/anti-Forge site.  Fortunately, the overwhelming majority of people here have made something more of it.

!i!

I don't have a problem with not liking the sub-text of WW games, or discussing it. But this really isn't the same thing.