Is there any game you can think of (aside from D&D) that was BETTER in its earlier edition than in a later edition?

Note that I say "aside from D&D" just because obviously this would otherwise devolve the thread into a fight between fans of older editions vs fans of the current edition (or even the upcoming edition).  

What I'm curious is to see if anyone can think of any other game where they definitely feel that the new edition was a downward step compared to earlier editions. At the moment I can't think of any, myself (unless you count True20, where the PDF version was superior rules-wise, IMO to the final print version).

RPGPundit

Traveller's earliest incarnation, the infamous little black box is still one of those examples of solid design; later incarnations are less focused and not at all elegant. I gave away my later rulebooks, but keep the LBB next to the OD&D White Box in a place of honour.

GURPS 3 is better than GURPS 4.  

GURPS 3 was a nice, modular, low-powered generic game, that could be as simple or as complicated as you wanted it.

GURPS 4 abandoned all that.  It's far more interconnected, adds far more complexity, and basically seems to want to be HERO.

Vampire. Great initial concept, ruined by supplement creep and edition updates. Started out as a dark, difficult game that your character was destined to lose, ended up almost as a super-powers game.

I think Star Frontiers pre-Zebulon's Guide was better than post-. (If we accept that ZG was practically a new edition rathen than just a supplement with way too many pages devoted to alternative rules.)

I mean, the original skill system may have been imperfect and simplistic, but it was simple and easy to use. ZG's silly Sliding Column Skill Roll Tables and oversized skills list did manage to completely grab my attention, but only in a "no way I'm ever using that" manner. It was a really stupid thing, especially considering how Star Frontiers was trying to occupy the niche of being "the simple sci-fi game" in opposition to Traveller.
That, and two of the new races were just insults. I mean, dwarf humans and kangaroomen, WTF!?



EDIT: Oh, and D6 Star Wars. The first one was simple, quick, pulpy, elegant and sexy. The second one tried to be all grown-up, added some stupid shit about sensors in spaceship combat (come on, it's STAR WARS! When did you see Han Solo waging sensor warfare with the Imps? It's not Hunt for the Red October!), some unnecessarily restrictive rules on how Force powers are learned (now you have to learn them separately! They're just like D&D spells! ) and instances of other minor bullshit like that which just added up to no longer being sexy.

Quote from: MelanTraveller's earliest incarnation

I think MegaTraveller improved on that while keeping most of the system.  But I think the later stuff was a step down in setting and mechanics.  

You could actually design a starship in LBB in <10 minutes.  It got to be an increasingly complicated undertaking.

Some of the D20 versions were poorly done.  Deadlands D20 seems to have less life, BESM D20 has some ideas but is a mess, there are others that aren't coming to me.

Quote from: PremierEDIT: Oh, and D6 Star Wars.

Seconded. I remember opening the starship combat section, finding manoeuver schemas and thinking 'Way to go people, simple and quick starship combat wasn't among the game's biggest strengths, no sir, not at all...'.

Also, wasn't there a Paranoia edition where some genius thought crashing the Computer was a good idea ?

Quote from: WeeklyAlso, wasn't there a Paranoia edition where some genius thought crashing the Computer was a good idea ?

I am still wondering who thought up fifth edition. :raise:

As a set of rules, RQ3 isn't as bad as some fans make it out to be, but RQ2 is better on the whole.

Quote from: MelanI am still wondering who thought up fifth edition. :raise:

Communist mutant traitors.



Note: there are NO communist mutant traitors in the Alpha Complex.

Quote from: NicephorusI think MegaTraveller improved on that while keeping most of the system.  But I think the later stuff was a step down in setting and mechanics.

That one.

Every Traveller offering after MegaTraveller has been a bitter disappointment to me.

But then, I find the MT task system to equal or exceed most put out today, so I think they set the bar pretty high.

I maintain, perhaps irrationally but most probably not, that the D6 editions of Star Wars are tons better than the d20 iterations.

I can say that the 1st ed. of SW was better than the 2nd one, but 2nd Ed. Revised & Expanded was REALLY good, and I actually like it better than 1st.

It's all subjective of course.

Quote from: droogAs a set of rules, RQ3 isn't as bad as some fans make it out to be, but RQ2 is better on the whole.

I agree entirely. I don't totally dislike RQ3, its just that its a let down after what came before.

Also agree with the point made earlier about Paranoia going down hill when they crashed the computer.

Cyberpunk - 2020 was definitively better than v3, and not only because of barbie dolls and nanotech going wild.
(I dunno much about CP2013, but it seems like the difference to 2020 was rules- and settingwise rather small.)

Rolemaster/Spacemaster - The 1st and 2nd editions of RM were much better than the convoluted mess of RMSS and RMFRP. The same goes for the original Spacemaster compared with Spacemaster Privateers.

I'll agree with earlier claims about Cyberpunk, Traveller and Paranoia.