Personally, I've found that gamers' self loathing is vastly disproportionate to the concept of gamers held by those who don't game. If they think of it at all - which they hardly ever do, usually when meeting someone who's openly a gamer like me - they think of it as something akin to model railroading, or else as something they used to do back in the day when they were young, like reading comics. It's really only roleplayers who have this bizarre self image.

Seriously.

-clash

What clash said. IME, people at worst find it a tad odd in a rolleyes-boys-will-be-boys kind of way, but they don't think of gamers, qua gamers, as scum or losers or anything.

Quotepeople at worst find it a tad odd in a rolleyes-boys-will-be-boys kind of way,

Yepp. My experience, too.

Quote from: James J SkachWatch it now, Koltar - you pick Illinois to be one of the few things I actually see you bad-mouth? If I didn't think you were such a nice guy, I might hafta...

 James, I like Illinois, I kid Illinois, I have to like the state - I was BORN there. (DuPage County Hospital to be exact)

 Just describing the actual geography is all. Illinois, in general is flatter and  more of a prairie state than Ohio is.  My grandfather was a guard at Joliet state prison during Dillinger's brief stay there.

- Ed C.

Quote from: Pierce InverarityWhat clash said. IME, people at worst find it a tad odd in a rolleyes-boys-will-be-boys kind of way, but they don't think of gamers, qua gamers, as scum or losers or anything.

That's my experience.  It certainly was different in High School, though.  I had a suitably geeky first three years in high school, and it was typically American and horrible.

I live in New England, and I've been to Illinios. Ohio is flat, but Illinois - and Florida - are flaaaat! Waves on Lake Michigan are the highest non-man-made points in the state of Illinois. In Florida you can see both coasts from the center because it's so flat the earth has no curvature. It's like being a bug on a plate!



-clash

Quote from: KoltarIllinois, in general is flatter and  more of a prairie state than Ohio is.  My grandfather was a guard at Joliet state prison during Dillinger's brief stay there.

As someone who inhabits the southern part of Illinois, y'know, the part that isn't Chicago, it's not flat here.  Not flat at all.  Check out
"Garden of the Gods" to see what Illinois can be.

I'm from Joliet, btw.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread.

Quote from: joewolzThat's my experience.  It certainly was different in High School, though.  I had a suitably geeky first three years in high school, and it was typically American and horrible.

American high schools really must be disaster areas. Thankfully, ours are just boring. Three cheers for social democrat welfare state education!

Isn't that right, Settembrini?

Quote from: Pierce InverarityAmerican high schools really must be disaster areas. Thankfully, ours are just boring. Three cheers for social democrat welfare state education!

Word-

QuoteIsn't that right, Settembrini?

Three cheers for Prussian compulsary education, and the three tierd school system, which the social democrats fight whereever they walk.

Eh.

I'm with JimBob when it comes to this type of attitude.

If you really don't like gamers, then fuck off.  Why the hell are you still here, then?

I have zero patience for the hand-wringing self-loathing, or the insecure dicks who insist on trashing everyone around them to try and make them feel like they're somehow better than every other gamer, or play the "less geeky than thou" sort of game.

It's asinine ego-tripping, and it makes you look like a twat.

I wonder if I'm an odd one out because I love listening to gamer stories.  I want to hear you talk about how your 19th level Paladin stared down the Liche sorcerer, or whatever.  I find that sort of enthusiasm and joy infectious, and when people reminisce about their games, both good and bad, I can always learn something.  Because those bits are memorable.

So yeah, color me geeky or whatever.  I love this hobby.  I can't even comprehend feeling dorky or embarrassed or whatever about it.

I like listening to good gamer stories. 25th level drowlesbianstripperninja stories, not so much. But yes, the enthusiasm is the best part!

I often feel dorky in my enthusiasm for things. But I comfort myself that everyone is dorky about the things they've enthusiasm for. So though dorky, I don't feel embarassed.

Of course, some people have enthusiasm for nothing, and so are never dorky. I cannot feel envy for their lack of enthusiasm for things. It seems a rather dull way to live.

The real problem seems to be just that many people aren't good storytellers, and so when they tell you about the stuff they've done in a game, it comes out badly structured and boring. But that would be true if they were telling you about their dog getting diarrhea or street luging or curing cancer, and doesn't have a ton to do with them being gamers.

That's true, that not everyone is a good storyteller. But also many rpg sessions aren't good stories, either. A good story has a beginning, a middle and and end, some sort of point to it, is paced well to keep everyone interested, and doesn't dwell on irrelevant details, or rush past important stuff. It's pretty hard to do all that in a game session. Much easier when you're the only "authour."

If the rpg session wasn't a brilliant story, it's even harder to tell a brilliant story from it when you're giving it out second-hand.

Which I guess is why gamers seem to focus on telling little bits of the stories, little scenes which were fun, interesting or cool. It's easier to describe one little scene than a whole series of them in a story.