Quote from: Harry JoyI've started a thread about your idol at NKL's sister site, NTL, if you are interested. Come and have some fun, Csb. You might meet some new folks who are into the same things you are. Rusted Scrap Metal springs to mind. He would really take a shine to you.
 
http://www.nothingland.com/showthread.php?p=97748#post97748

I dunno...he seems quick to take offense. The NKLers can be pretty rough. But maybe that's your point.

Quote from: CantankerousSaltbeardIt is a shame when those with inadequacies in real life must post things like that on the internet to make themselves feel better about themselves, Colonel Hardisson (are you a real colonel?).

Bad troll!

You attempted an attack of opportunity at a wrong time.

Quote from: ColonelHardissonNo, I'm not a real colonel. It's a character I made up for a script I wrote back in film school.

Really? I always pictured you as an old grizzled warrior from too many flame wars, who found some peace at last and now meditates on things mundane and profound which you post here on Nutkinland. But film school, you say.....

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RReally? I always pictured you as an old grizzled warrior from too many flame wars, who found some peace at last and now meditates on things mundane and profound which you post here on Nutkinland. But film school, you say.....

Regards,
David R

I knew he wasn't a colonel but I can't help picturing him as Colonel Mustard (that was his avatar for a long time).  I knew he didn't really look like that but it was still jarring to find out he looks a lot like my brother.

Quote from: petersonsdcFight you?  No thanks.  You're probably the dirtiest fighters here, and I'd rather have you at my back than your beer bottle in my face.

Not ME, we can go out in the parking lot and pick a fight with some rednecks.

God that sounds good. The sounds of wimpering rednecks and beaking bones.

Quote from: petersonsdcAs for the part about "a women dressing like a whore and goes drinking and drugging at a party, she's not acting responsibly or in her best interests, and if bad things happen, she must LEARN from the experience and become a better person" (quoted AGAIN just to reinforce the fact that if you ain't a troll, you're one of the reasons why Violent Crimes happen)....well, I'm pretty sure that's what those convicted for Rape use as a defense.  I could look it up, find a case file that proves it, but you know what....its too disturbing to do.

Boy howdy, but this thread as the topic drift from HELL. If I were smart, I'd slink away before I'm seen.


Well, CSb seems to have pissed everybody off, although I have to admit that this may be partially due to his poor phrasing in some places, and mostly due to others jumping to conclusions about what he meant and then getting pissed off at that strawman. Sort of like the above.

Is the rapist responsible? Fuck yeah, he's responsible. It's not like he tripped and accidentally fell in. He's a rapists. No two ways about it. He is responsible for his own actions. What CSb is saying is the woman he raped is also responsible for her own actions. In the scenerio he outlined, she wasn't spending a quiet night at home reading and the rapist broke in. She wasn't having a night out with some friends. The scenerio he outlined shows a woman drinking and taking other substances, which impare judgement, inhibitions and the ability to defend one's self. Now all of this does not excuse the rapist in any way, but the hypethetical woman here should not have put herself in harm's way like that. Bad things happen. No point in making it easier for bad things to happen to you.

Which, I think is CSb's main point. I don't think it's so much about making yourself stronger than it is about not making yourself weaker. There is a sort of "victim chic" these days. This is, not everyone who claims to be a victim really is one. Some are victims of their own making. For whatever reason. But it would not be if they did not make themselves weak and therefore a target for those who seek out and attack the weak. Bad things happen. Can't change that. So, there is no point in making it easier for bad things to happen to you.

Quote from: Jack Spencer JrWell, CSb seems to have pissed everybody off, although I have to admit that this may be partially due to his poor phrasing in some places, and mostly due to others jumping to conclusions about what he meant and then getting pissed off at that strawman. Sort of like the above.

Nobody here is getting pissed at a strawman. CSb is loud and clear. Take this little gem from a previous post -

QuoteThat is good that you learned martial arts, BUT why not admit it gives you power over those of less size and skill of you? It should not make YOU uncomfortable that you can kick some ass.

Poor phrasing is not a problem this guy has.

QuoteWhat CSb is saying is the woman he raped is also responsible for her own actions. In the scenerio he outlined, she wasn't spending a quiet night at home reading and the rapist broke in. She wasn't having a night out with some friends. The scenerio he outlined shows a woman drinking and taking other substances, which impare judgement, inhibitions and the ability to defend one's self.

Now, this here is the problem. She was having a night out with her friends -maybe. She was at a party. But look at his phrasing -dressing like a whore, hmm. Was her judgement impaired. Sure. Was she putting herself in harms way. Maybe. But this raises some interesting questions. Firstly it assumes that a woman can't go out and have fun (however judgment impairing that fun maybe) because she has to be worried that she may get raped.

(Lets take your example of spending a night at home. Was she alone? Because if she was, she is not taking precautions. To be really safe, she should be living with someone. A man, preferably. What kind of locks does she have in her home? She better have some high tech shit....)

Which I suppose is a good thing. Or maybe not. You see, should a black guy not go out drinking with a group of white guys, because you know he may not know if said white guys are part of the Klan.

QuoteNow all of this does not excuse the rapist in any way, but the hypethetical woman here should not have put herself in harm's way like that. Bad things happen. No point in making it easier for bad things to happen to you.

That's one way of looking at it. It's easy, to say stuff like this, in hypothetical situations, but reality is more clear cut, fortunately, having spent sometime, in my country's legal aid bureau, I'm happy to report that a woman does not have to be dressed like a whore, dinking and drugging in a party. She is normaly is drinking and drugging with people who she assumes she knows, but really doesn't. Maybe the best thing is for women, to be kept away from all men.

But wait...that's extreme right. Maybe tougher rape laws, personnel trained in rape counseling/investigation, more priority in teaching young males to respect woman...(and yes, teaching youngs girls that all men may be potential rapist, sounds like a good idea.)

QuoteWhich, I think is CSb's main point. I don't think it's so much about making yourself stronger than it is about not making yourself weaker.

Take a good look at most of his other posts, just so you are familiar, with his arguments.

QuoteThere is a sort of "victim chic" these days. This is, not everyone who claims to be a victim really is one.

Actually no. There are not so much a victim chic, but the reality of survivors. But nice phrase though. Also, be specific, when you claim, that not everybody who claims to be a victim really is one....I know how you feel about some rape survivors, but give me some other examples....you, know like the coloured guy, who should not have been walking in a particular street...

QuoteFor whatever reason. But it would not be if they did not make themselves weak and therefore a target for those who seek out and attack the weak. Bad things happen. Can't change that. So, there is no point in making it easier for bad things to happen to you.

Sure.Nobody was arguing against this.Although as I have mentioned before, it's a hell of a lot more complex than cliches about not making yourself a target.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David Rmore priority in teaching young males to respect woman...(and yes, teaching youngs girls that all men may be potential rapist, sounds like a good idea.)

Just because YOU would rape a woman given the chance does not mean that all TRUE men should be labeled as rapists in waiting. I am not a potential rapist and should not be treated like one.

And how about we teach young women to respect THEMSELVES? That would be, don't swear, don't dress like a whore, don't have sex with every man that comes along, or ENGAGE in cuddle puddles and rainbow parties. Too many young women have learned to build their identities around casual sex AND lesbianism. They also swear profusely and TRY to take on masculine roles.

THIS is what I meant all along: people NEED to respect themselves. Make themselves stronger! Learn the JUDO way! Not to blame others. If you call yourself a survivor, THEN you know you are just making excuses. Why label yourself that? That just gives the incident POWER over you, instead of giving you power over the incident! If something bad happens to you, you should just get over it. If you don't want it to happen again, don't repeat the same behaviors, and take steps to learn judo. Simple advice for a simple world!

Quote from: CantankerousSaltbeardJust because YOU would rape a woman given the chance does not mean that all TRUE men should be labeled as rapists in waiting. I am not a potential rapist and should not be treated like one.

First off, I think the poster was being sarcastic, but perhaps not.

Quote from: CantankerousSaltbeardAnd how about we teach young women to respect THEMSELVES? That would be, don't swear, don't dress like a whore, don't have sex with every man that comes along, or ENGAGE in cuddle puddles and rainbow parties. Too many young women have learned to build their identities around casual sex AND lesbianism. They also swear profusely and TRY to take on masculine roles.

And don't forget that the female is supposed to walk 10' (or is 20'?  I can never remember the sexists' rules correctly) behind the man, keep her head bowed, and cover her face.  Oh, and while we're at it, let's take away their right to vote, since obviously they (females) are too weak to make strong decisions... That, by the way, was sarcasm.  I mean, seriously - what the bloody fuck does swearing have to do with self-respect?

Quote from: SomeoffhisrockerbackwoodsSeagelwannabeTHIS is what I meant all along: people NEED to respect themselves. Make themselves stronger! Learn the JUDO way! Not to blame others. If you call yourself a survivor, THEN you know you are just making excuses. Why label yourself that? That just gives the incident POWER over you, instead of giving you power over the incident! If something bad happens to you, you should just get over it. If you don't want it to happen again, don't repeat the same behaviors, and take steps to learn judo. Simple advice for a simple world!

Uh-huh.  First off, John-boy, the world ain't simple.  I'm not about to try to find enough small words to explain it to you, but just trust me - it ain't simple.  I do agree however that people do need to respect themselves - they do.  Its a fact.  I just don't see how making one's self "stronger", being taught "the Judo way", or not "calling those that survive something strenous/seriously life-affecting a survivor" is being taught respect...I suppose it could make sense in a simple world, maybe, but see my previous statement about that.

"If you don't want it to happen again, don't repeat the same behaviors, and take steps to learn judo."  That is just beautiful advice, because as everyone knows JUDO can stop wars, bullets, the sky from falling, and Tupac's death. (Again, that was sarcasm.)

Huh.  I've seen Judo.  I've even dabbled a bit in Judo.  I have a friend who teaches Judo.  After talking it over with him, we - by no means experts, but certainly informed folk - have determined that JUDO could do none of those things (stop bullets, war, the sky from falling, and Tupac's death)....unless of course, you are Chuck Norris (but then it wouldn't be JUDO would it?).

Peterson

Also, I'm still waiting for an answer from you, SCb.  Option #1 or #2.  I'm a nice guy.  I'm letting you pick.

Peterson

Since Petersonsdc has responded to your comments in a cogent manner, anything I would add, would seem to me, to be superfluous. Well, I just got a couple of observations.

Quote from: CantankerousSaltbeardJust because YOU would rape a woman given the chance does not mean that all TRUE men should be labeled as rapists in waiting. I am not a potential rapist and should not be treated like one.

Emphasis mine.Could you please define what you mean by true men. Do you mean it in a Tolkienesque"True men of the West" kind of way, or is the concept more ideological or religious in nature.

QuoteAnd how about we teach young women to respect THEMSELVES? That would be, don't swear, don't dress like a whore, don't have sex with every man that comes along, or ENGAGE in cuddle puddles and rainbow parties. Too many young women have learned to build their identities around casual sex AND lesbianism. They also swear profusely and TRY to take on masculine roles.

Emphasis mine. Could you define dressing like a whore. This may interest you (or it may not), recently in my country (Malaysia) there has been a controversy about local city councils being legally empowered to police the morality of the general public. One of the provisions was that cuddles in public were considered immoral. Immoral within an Asian value context, which has gained some approval from some of the more conservative elements in society.

The fact that in name we are supposed to be a Muslim country (although, anyone visiting this country should be aware that they will receive a very secular wellcome, I believe I live in a country with limitless possibilities -end of plug  ) it is troubling to many that the powers that be are investing the local councils with such powers...powers that would be interpreted within a Muslim context.

How does this relate to you? Well I'm pleasently suprised that your arguments are very much in line with what they are proposing. It's good to know that some values are universal.

Also could you define what you mean by masculine roles.

QuoteTHIS is what I meant all along: people NEED to respect themselves. Make themselves stronger! Learn the JUDO way! Not to blame others. If you call yourself a survivor, THEN you know you are just making excuses. Why label yourself that? That just gives the incident POWER over you, instead of giving you power over the incident! If something bad happens to you, you should just get over it. If you don't want it to happen again, don't repeat the same behaviors, and take steps to learn judo. Simple advice for a simple world!

Emphasis mine. I don't think you really understand the not so subtle politics of the words "victim" and "survivor". I also believe that your worldview does not allow you to appreciate the fact that the definition of the word power is varied and fluid.

As to your belief as to what JUDO is, I think we have established that you are ignorant about the philosophy on which the subject is based on.

Regards,
David R

Damn, your Regen kicked in, didn't it.

Quote from: CantankerousSaltbeardJust because YOU would rape a woman given the chance does not mean that all TRUE men should be labeled as rapists in waiting. I am not a potential rapist and should not be treated like one.

True, you'd just "give her what she deserves." right right?

QuoteAnd how about we teach young women to respect THEMSELVES? That would be, don't swear, don't dress like a whore, don't have sex with every man that comes along, or ENGAGE in cuddle puddles and rainbow parties.

Would robes and viels do it for you sunshine?

Hey, phone call for you, it's 2006, they want to know if you're going to be here anytime soon?

QuoteToo many young women have learned to build their identities around casual sex AND lesbianism. They also swear profusely and TRY to take on masculine roles.

Lose your job to a woman, or your girlfriend to a lesbian?

Wow, just think, I heard they like to vote and wear pants too.

QuoteTHIS is what I meant all along: people NEED to respect themselves.

IEN DEUTCHLAND!
[/quote]Make themselves stronger![/quote]
IEN UBERMENCH!

QuoteLearn the JUDO way!

EIN VOLK!

QuoteNot to blame others. If you call yourself a survivor, THEN you know you are just making excuses. Why label yourself that? That just gives the incident POWER over you, instead of giving you power over the incident!

Wow, I'm sure rape, murder, assault, and the like are empowering.

Oh, wait, but women can't be empowered, they might want to vote, wear pants, and have thier own sexuality.

QuoteIf something bad happens to you, you should just get over it.

"Just lay back and enjoy it."

One of your pickup lines perhaps?

QuoteIf you don't want it to happen again, don't repeat the same behaviors, and take steps to learn judo. Simple advice for a simple world!

And yet you posted here again.

Does your mom know you are using the computer?

Judo? Judo!?!?

Fucking please. It's a goddamn combat fighting style, not the answer to everyone's problems.

Isn't there a cult you could join, troll? I'm sure there's one that believes in a passing comet somewhere out there that will accept you as a member.

Just remember, cyanide is not only a great drink spicer-upper, but also improves your complexion.

Quote from: petersonsdcAlso, I'm still waiting for an answer from you, SCb.  Option #1 or #2.  I'm a nice guy.  I'm letting you pick.

Peterson

Where are you again? I would like to fly there at your expense, most likely.

Quote from: David REmphasis mine. I don't think you really understand the not so subtle politics of the words "victim" and "survivor".

I am not interested in politics, I am interested in people learning to police their own behavior AND to defend themselves when necessary. I wish Muslims like those in your country could do the former, and I'm glad that they aren't better at the latter as a result.

Quote from: Harry Joy*judo*
 
I'm a firm believer in the belief that a good defense is a good defense. Guard your exits, whether you are female and worried about rape, or a retailer worried about "shrink", or a country bleeding from all orifices.
 
When you catch the perpertrator, chase them. Chase them long and hard. And holler a lot. Whether you are a victim of rape, theft, or cross-border raids.
 
If the hollering doesn't gain you A. Superman, B. The cops, or C. Ted Nugent, trip them. Then step on their faces. If that doesn't work, it will at least distract them from their nuts. Step on them instead.
 
*judo*
 
hth

You sir are a TRUE man. I bet you are not scarred from a lifetime of abuse AND inferiority complex. You are greater than a survivor.