Someone on ENWorld has written a Homebrew RPG based on 4e called Heroes of Legend.  It's not a full game - rather, it builds on the 4e rules.

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on using 4e for a Marvel/DC style superhero type game.  Do you think it would work?  What do you think of the Heroes of Legend stuff?

If you don't think 4e is a good fit, what other system would you suggest for a superhero game if you want to have lots of focus on the tactical side of things? I really like the idea of using minis (eg. Marvel Heroscape) and the grid for this kind of game.

I have the TSR Marvel Superheroes game - but I like the idea of the grid and more detailed movement rather than the somewhat abstract movement in MSH.

If anyone from WotC is lurking - if you publish a Marvel Heroscape + 4e type game, I will buy it immediately. Thanks!

Powers look incredibly weak to start in many instances--example 10' range for Telepathy? But attacks are half the attribute? Needs a lot of work to be a useable superhero game and needs to examine scale in depth since many superheroes abilities can reach at least half a city block if ranged at all.

I think the structure of 4e could potentially work very, very well for a superhero game.  When it's doing its job, 4e combats tend toward the cinematic - and superhero fights are nothing if not that.

-O

4e + HeroClix = Win

It's a good idea

Mutants and Masterminds is based on d20... and 4e is too (sorta).  I'm wondering if Mutants & Masterminds + 4e + HeroScape/Heroclix Minis would be the winning combination.

I am with Silverlion on this one.  It needs a lot of work.  

The end product will end up like the SuperHero MMORPG RPG.  Yes and No about the Win of this one.

4E is not a great fit for superheroes because it doesn't handle solo stuff as well.

But..

The way I would design it:

1. avoid trying to make a generic, marvel or DC-based, or real-world based superhero game.

2. instead: define a world first- which might have a general history and some general races to choose from: there would be humans, a few alien races, atlanteans, mutants, metalloids, eternals (godlings), etc. But get the races all down, and design them in balance. Each one gets a racial feat, and a bonus, and all of that.

3. Design the classes and fit them into roles:
  A. The striker role will have energy blaster, martial artist, weapons expert, (etc)
  B. The defender role would have tanks, power armor, giants, guardians
  C. Controller would have mastermind, psion, elementalist, gadgeteer, arcanist
  D. Leader would have tactician, medic, vehicle expert, scientist
 
And then expand kind of one class at a time.

4. Only let it go up to level 10. Levels 1-10 only.

Criminals would use the monster system. Many criminals would be minions.

Yes, I was thinking Minions / Henchmen / Criminals would be a really good fit.

Quote from: Stuart;293448Yes, I was thinking Minions / Henchmen / Criminals would be a really good fit.

*some* of them-- for big battles, definitely. But building a nice encounter in 4e is a matter of mixing up the roles:

So you might have a gang with 8 scrubby minions as gang members, and then a brute (especially strong gang member), an elite skirmisher (the gang leader, with a stolen piece of superhero gear), and perhaps a couple of  artillery guys (the two gang members who have submachine guns) in an encounter.

Redesigning the classes also means you have to break out each of the powers. So energy blasters might have dual strike or 'power burst' or whatever.

When a lot of superheroes can zip around a battlefield, flying a mile a round or what have you, grid-based combat becomes a lot less viable.

I disagree with AM. 4E would be a great fit for superheroic play. Seriously, man, solo stuff makes it a poor fit? You could say the same thing about D&D.

Quote from: jswa;293462When a lot of superheroes can zip around a battlefield, flying a mile a round or what have you, grid-based combat becomes a lot less viable.

This is why M&M ditched the "scale movement and reduced combat move", because it didn't make sense, and didn't work well.

If you MUST play tactical supers?  Savage Worlds...either Necessary Evil or the new Dawn of Legends.

Quote from: Stuart;293341I'd love to hear people's thoughts on using 4e for a Marvel/DC style superhero type game.  Do you think it would work?  What do you think of the Heroes of Legend stuff?

I would also suggest Savage Worlds + HeroClix.  

The Heroes of Legend stuff looking interesting.  I would want to put it into actual play before fully commenting, but 4e Supers would work fine...but not as a generic Supers game.

As others mentioned, the range/speed/distance/scale issues of many comic book heroes throws away the idea of the grid.   However, if you made a specific heroic world where powers exist, but all were limited to the needs of the grid, then 4e Supers should be great.

4e characters are already cinematic fantasy superheroes so trading chainmail for spandex would be fine if the power limitations made sense for the setting.