Game mechanics that you think SHOULD be more popular...

KindaMeh · March 29, 2025, 08:26:07 PM

I can appreciate it when in-game mechanics get tied to real world benchmarks. For instance, in Ascendant practically everything is quantifiably meaningful. With almost every character sheet or NPC stat number having some form of tangible, direct meaning assigned within the game world and its narrative.

Sadly, I can't really think of many examples of this outside maybe the strength stat in some RPGs.

Mishihari · March 29, 2025, 08:33:49 PM

Quote from: RNGm on March 29, 2025, 06:25:47 PM
Quote from: Mishihari on March 29, 2025, 04:15:45 PMSpell interruption and individual initiative. These were both a thing in early D&D and moving away from them made combat a lot less interesting

Regarding individual initiative, are you referring to everone rolling individually and going on their own initiative result? Is that really that uncommon nowadays? I agree that side based initiative has increased in popularity but i always figured that individual was still the most popular.

I don't actually know. I hear a lot more about the virtues of side based initiatives online though

weirdguy564 · March 29, 2025, 08:34:46 PM

I prefer games with these bits.

1. You don't roll your stats. You just are given some that you put where you want them.

2. Warrior classes that get customization so they're just as interesting as wizards.

3. Armor as a saving throw to reduce damage or even block all of it.

4. Spells that use a skill check to pull off instead of slots.

5. Weapons and armor traits so each type has a use. None should be statistically better than the others.

Mishihari · March 29, 2025, 08:37:57 PM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on March 28, 2025, 08:40:38 PM
Quote from: Shteve on March 28, 2025, 03:47:49 PM
Quote from: Eric Diaz on March 28, 2025, 01:20:14 PMA single roll for attack and damage.

I'm not sure I've run across this before. Anyone have an example? Color me intrigued.

Pocket Fantasy (which is free) has this. Characters all have a Combat Skill of 1D6, 1D6-1, or 1D6-2 based on your chosen class. Some bottom tier enemies can even be as bad as 1D6-3.

You roll your CS to attack and the other guy rolls their CS to block damage. If any damage is left, the victim takes that number in damage.

My game does something similar. There are opposed attack and defense rolls. If the attack roll beats the defense roll, then the difference is the damage.

I vaguely recall another mechanic, not sure which game, with a percentile attack roll. If you get a hit then damage is the sum of the two digits.

Chris24601 · March 29, 2025, 08:52:33 PM

Quote from: KindaMeh on March 29, 2025, 08:26:07 PMI can appreciate it when in-game mechanics get tied to real world benchmarks. For instance, in Ascendant practically everything is quantifiably meaningful. With almost every character sheet or NPC stat number having some form of tangible, direct meaning assigned within the game world and its narrative.

Sadly, I can't really think of many examples of this outside maybe the strength stat in some RPGs.

FATAL had various, um, diameters.

On a more serious note I always appreciated that the Speed attribute in Palladium is literally your speed in feet per second... there's a story where this may have been accidental because the game always presents it as Speed x 20 = yards per minute (originally Palladium Fantasy had one minute turns), but 60 feet per speed point over the course of 60 seconds is extremely specific.

RNGm · March 29, 2025, 08:59:44 PM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on March 29, 2025, 08:34:46 PMI prefer games with these bits.

1. You don't roll your stats. You just are given some that you put where you want them.

2. Warrior classes that get customization so they're just as interesting as wizards.

3. Armor as a saving throw to reduce damage or even block all of it.

4. Spells that use a skill check to pull off instead of slots.

5. Weapons and armor traits so each type has a use. None should be statistically better than the others.

Some good choices there that I definitely agree with but do you consider them uncommon or underused? It could just be my own biases at play but I see them frequently. With #1, are you referring to point buy systems or a standard array that you can just put anywhere?

Ratman_tf · March 30, 2025, 04:00:40 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 29, 2025, 08:52:33 PM
Quote from: KindaMeh on March 29, 2025, 08:26:07 PMI can appreciate it when in-game mechanics get tied to real world benchmarks. For instance, in Ascendant practically everything is quantifiably meaningful. With almost every character sheet or NPC stat number having some form of tangible, direct meaning assigned within the game world and its narrative.

Sadly, I can't really think of many examples of this outside maybe the strength stat in some RPGs.
FATAL had various, um, diameters.

On a more serious note I always appreciated that the Speed attribute in Palladium is literally your speed in feet per second... there's a story where this may have been accidental because the game always presents it as Speed x 20 = yards per minute (originally Palladium Fantasy had one minute turns), but 60 feet per speed point over the course of 60 seconds is extremely specific.

...

Has anyone used the Speed stat in any Palladium game? I can't think of any time I used it while playing or GMing.

RNGm · March 30, 2025, 07:37:32 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on March 30, 2025, 04:00:40 AMHas anyone used the Speed stat in any Palladium game? I can't think of any time I used it while playing or GMing.

Not once in the 15 years we played. The only player/characters for whom it might have mattered was the juicer and full conversion borg and even then they only wrote for reference the max speed in MPH (which still paled in comparison with power armor and vehicles).

Zalman · March 30, 2025, 07:56:17 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 29, 2025, 08:52:33 PM
Quote from: KindaMeh on March 29, 2025, 08:26:07 PMI can appreciate it when in-game mechanics get tied to real world benchmarks. For instance, in Ascendant practically everything is quantifiably meaningful. With almost every character sheet or NPC stat number having some form of tangible, direct meaning assigned within the game world and its narrative.

Sadly, I can't really think of many examples of this outside maybe the strength stat in some RPGs.
FATAL had various, um, diameters.

On a more serious note I always appreciated that the Speed attribute in Palladium is literally your speed in feet per second... there's a story where this may have been accidental because the game always presents it as Speed x 20 = yards per minute (originally Palladium Fantasy had one minute turns), but 60 feet per speed point over the course of 60 seconds is extremely specific.

I ran into a few happy semi-accidents with my D12-based homebrew. Jump targets are distance in feet, wind can be rolled using the Beaufort Wind Scale, and Climb targets match the Yosemite Decimal System.

Jump for example was sort of reverse engineered from the desired result, but the math just happened to work out pretty neatly. So sort of a joint effort between intention and luck.

weirdguy564 · March 30, 2025, 09:53:14 AM

Quote from: RNGm on March 29, 2025, 08:59:44 PM
Quote from: weirdguy564 on March 29, 2025, 08:34:46 PMI prefer games with these bits.

1. You don't roll your stats. You just are given some that you put where you want them.

2. Warrior classes that get customization so they're just as interesting as wizards.

3. Armor as a saving throw to reduce damage or even block all of it.

4. Spells that use a skill check to pull off instead of slots.

5. Weapons and armor traits so each type has a use. None should be statistically better than the others.

Some good choices there that I definitely agree with but do you consider them uncommon or underused? It could just be my own biases at play but I see them frequently. With #1, are you referring to point buy systems or a standard array that you can just put anywhere?

Yes, point buy or standard array. I used to have to deal with power gamers/munchkins who would kill their own mother to get an extra 3% advantage. It made rolling 3D6 down the line a terrible experience.

As for how common finding a game with all of these features is, it only takes one. In my case the Kogarashi/True-D6 game is the best one. D6 Star Wars/Mini-six is another.

RNGm · March 30, 2025, 09:57:31 AM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on March 30, 2025, 09:53:14 AMYes, point buy or standard array. I used to have to deal with power gamers/munchkins who would kill their own mother to get an extra 3% advantage. It made rolling 3D6 down the line a terrible experience.

IIRC you said you played Palladium and that is the WayTM for those systems, lol. I say that as a former longtime player of Rifts (and occasionally Robotech at cons) and reformed and repentent matricide-munchkin myself.

It was the 90s and I was a teen who didn't know any better in my first campaign!

KindaMeh · March 30, 2025, 11:21:11 AM

Quote from: Zalman on March 30, 2025, 07:56:17 AM
Quote from: Chris24601 on March 29, 2025, 08:52:33 PM
Quote from: KindaMeh on March 29, 2025, 08:26:07 PMI can appreciate it when in-game mechanics get tied to real world benchmarks. For instance, in Ascendant practically everything is quantifiably meaningful. With almost every character sheet or NPC stat number having some form of tangible, direct meaning assigned within the game world and its narrative.

Sadly, I can't really think of many examples of this outside maybe the strength stat in some RPGs.
FATAL had various, um, diameters.

On a more serious note I always appreciated that the Speed attribute in Palladium is literally your speed in feet per second... there's a story where this may have been accidental because the game always presents it as Speed x 20 = yards per minute (originally Palladium Fantasy had one minute turns), but 60 feet per speed point over the course of 60 seconds is extremely specific.

I ran into a few happy semi-accidents with my D12-based homebrew. Jump targets are distance in feet, wind can be rolled using the Beaufort Wind Scale, and Climb targets match the Yosemite Decimal System.

Jump for example was sort of reverse engineered from the desired result, but the math just happened to work out pretty neatly. So sort of a joint effort between intention and luck.

I'd imagine climbing and parkour would be pretty straightforward to adjudicate and narrate in a system like that. Also, sounds pretty fun/creative that there's now some system stuff out there based on the favorite die for most barbarians. (D12 needs more love, just in general.)

Exploderwizard · March 30, 2025, 11:51:21 AM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on March 29, 2025, 08:34:46 PMI prefer games with these bits.

1. You don't roll your stats. You just are given some that you put where you want them.

2. Warrior classes that get customization so they're just as interesting as wizards.

3. Armor as a saving throw to reduce damage or even block all of it.

4. Spells that use a skill check to pull off instead of slots.

5. Weapons and armor traits so each type has a use. None should be statistically better than the others.

I don't totally agree with #5. Weapons should be different and thus statistically better-at certain things. Longer weapons provide superior reach, lighter weapons are faster, etc. Weapons need more traits besides just damage to differentiate them.

ForgottenF · March 30, 2025, 01:39:34 PM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on March 30, 2025, 11:51:21 AM
Quote5. Weapons and armor traits so each type has a use. None should be statistically better than the others.

I don't totally agree with #5. Weapons should be different and thus statistically better-at certain things. Longer weapons provide superior reach, lighter weapons are faster, etc. Weapons need more traits besides just damage to differentiate them.

I like this idea on paper, but I've never seen a good application of it. Part of the problem is just that most RPG writers aren't also martial artists and/or HEMA enthusiasts, but most of it is that the relative merits different weapons are very complicated, nuanced and situational. Some of them you can easily model in RPG rules and some you can't. Games will end up only modeling the pros of some weapons and only the cons of others (and often they even get those wrong), and then you get a situation where some weapons have arbitrarily been made non-viable with no benefit in terms of balance or realism.

Exploderwizard · March 30, 2025, 01:45:32 PM

Quote from: ForgottenF on March 30, 2025, 01:39:34 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard on March 30, 2025, 11:51:21 AM
Quote5. Weapons and armor traits so each type has a use. None should be statistically better than the others.

I don't totally agree with #5. Weapons should be different and thus statistically better-at certain things. Longer weapons provide superior reach, lighter weapons are faster, etc. Weapons need more traits besides just damage to differentiate them.

I like this idea on paper, but I've never seen a good application of it. Part of the problem is just that most RPG writers aren't also martial artists and/or HEMA enthusiasts, but most of it is that the relative merits different weapons are very complicated, nuanced and situational. Some of them you can easily model in RPG rules and some you can't. Games will end up only modeling the pros of some weapons and only the cons of others (and often they even get those wrong), and then you get a situation where some weapons have arbitrarily been made non-viable with no benefit in terms of balance or realism.

I would say that balance in the game is more important than realism (at least as far as fantasy goes) In purely realistic sense, a hand and a half sword is much better than a stick, assuming equal skill, but it is more important for game play that the stick offer something attractive in play else why even have it.