I can understant the argument against fiction. But RPGs without art? That's heresy!

Game Fiction can die in a fire. We have wikis and blogs for that shit now. Get the fuck out of my technical manuals for my gameplay tools.

Quote from: Simlasa;899575Original Traveller did quite well with very little of either. Those LBBs captured my imagination just fine. As have some of the PDF games I've purchased of late.
I know art can help sell a game, it's sold me on a few, but once I've bought the game and I'm reading the rules it's pretty much superfluous.

It clearly doesn't work for everyone, is all. I have to admit that I prefer no fiction/art to BAD fiction/art, but an RPG with good or great fiction/art is still much better IMO. There's a lot of bad art out there though (shudders) so some games would actually have been improved if it were removed.

Quote from: Simlasa;899537Probably... but maybe the designer is thinking Larry Elmore and the publisher's budget is more along the line of 'My sister's boy, Larry'.

Really? You worry that your interpretation of the game is in line with the writer's intent?

Surely anyone wanting to play those games is familiar with the visuals. Not much need for stills from the shows to remind them.

Are you saying you don't care for Mr. Raggi's art choices?

Quote from: Kiero;899547That right there is your problem. I couldn't give a toss what the designer "intended" me to do with the game. As soon as the book is mine, it's mine to do with as I will.

For me, a game's look and writing tone can get me and my players on the same page, allows me to be internal consistent with both rules and setting details.  Consistency of setting is a very big thing for me.  For example, in comics there's been a lot of changing of character personalities of late, and those changes have been drastic and head scratchingly stupid choices for reasons I'm sure anyone who follows them can understand.  But there's been a backlash against it, simply because of both character and setting internal consistency was violated in a way that the fans/readers couldn't accept.

If I don't have a backbone to work from, my ability to GM gets diffuse and rambly.  I need an anchor and that's what game art and fiction help with.  I'm sorry if that makes (somehow, as I'm pretty most of you have a pretty low opinion of me anyway) me less than an ideal GM.  Or some bullshit.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;899649If I don't have a backbone to work from, my ability to GM gets diffuse and rambly.

I figure your 'backbone' is in the actual GMing, where you talk out what defines the setting. Your setting. Regardless of whatever the book says.

QuoteI'm sorry if that makes (somehow, as I'm pretty most of you have a pretty low opinion of me anyway) me less than an ideal GM.

Disagreement does not equate to having a low opinion of you as a person, silly... maybe a low opinion of your opinion... but that's as far as it goes.

Quote from: Trond;899606It clearly doesn't work for everyone, is all. I have to admit that I prefer no fiction/art to BAD fiction/art, but an RPG with good or great fiction/art is still much better IMO. There's a lot of bad art out there though (shudders) so some games would actually have been improved if it were removed.

Id rather the designers/writers stopped writing fiction and start doing their job of writing the damn background, race, whatever information.

Quote from: Omega;899721Id rather the designers/writers stopped writing fiction and start doing their job of writing the damn background, race, whatever information.

Mark Smylie did all of the above. He may have burnt himself out to a degree, but the game he produced (Artesia) is a gem. It would not have been the same without all the fluff.

Prose is fine as long as it isnt at the expense of the rest of the book. Or as others pointed out. Edging out parts of the book to make room for the prose.

On a related note, are there any other available Traveller novels, novellas, or short stories other than Agent of the Imperium?  I've done a lot of searching, but there's conflicting information on whether particular novels are part of the Traveller "canon" or not.

In all of the RPGs I've owned, the written fiction has been of fan fic quality which is to say I could have done without it. When I don't skip it, reading it feels like a chore. Give me pictures instead to set the mood, and give me lots of actual play examples.

Quote from: Simlasa;899517Funny, because that's one of the few GURPS products I've liked the art in. I know a lot of Transhumanist fans thought the art was too dark and creepy, but I find Transhumanism to be pretty scary/mindfuck stuff... so it worked for me.

But yeah, good example.

The artist (Christopher Shy?) is good and his work is very evocative but as I understand its dark, somber and vaguely sinister mood is almost the polar opposite from the intended mood of the THS setting which is optimistic, though not Utopian future with lots of bright shiny tech and generally positive outlook. Though I agree entirely that allot of Tranhumanism is creepy as fuck but apparently that wasn't the intent for the setting.

Quote from: Nexus;899867Though I agree entirely that allot of Tranhumanism is creepy as fuck but apparently that wasn't the intent for the setting.

And yet, the first (only?) adventure I saw for it, Orbital Decay, was a haunted space station full of space zombies.
I assumed most of the complaints about his art as coming from the Transhumanist fans, 'Oh, it's all gonna be wonderful... you'll live forever!... and you can have a pony!' rather than the people who wrote the setting/chose the art.

Quote from: Simlasa;899874And yet, the first (only?) adventure I saw for it, Orbital Decay, was a haunted space station full of space zombies.
.

Which is apparently largely despised by the game's fanbase and line director basically disavows it. Apparently it was a generic adventure that hastily modified to fit THS just to get a published adventure out. Or so I'm told (as was a friend of mine who was somewhat pilloried on the THS forum for saying she liked it and didn't see anything wrong with it). The complaints about the original art have were also from some of the people that worked on the line. FWIW There have been some other adventure that are evidently more inline with how the game is supposed to feel but I haven't read them.

Depends on the style and quality and how much it interferes with the gaming, or how much I like it's style, or not. I hate it when it seems to me like pollution, which I think would be often if I played different games. I liked the very small fictional touches in The Fantasy Trip, and I haven't seen much of it for GURPS, which is what I mainly play. It might take torture and/or mind-altering drugs to get me into many other games and their fiction, though.

I was just looking at a CP2020 sourcebook, Rockerboy. the fiction in it is largely in the form of fictional magazine articles (the intro are readers' lettes to the mag). I think this is the only type of fiction I can tolerate, because it's in the form of immersive props for the setting.