Quote from: JesterRaiin;901220BTW, do those short stories preceding chapters/monsters' descriptions and stats count as "game fiction"?

Yes... they're fiction, in a rulebook.

I mind game fiction less when it's properly framed as something in-world. The example above of a travelogue sounds like it could be immersive, for example. Anything else feels like a frustrated fan fic writer just wanked his pretentiousness all over the page.

Quote from: ArrozConLeche;901235I mind game fiction less when it's properly framed as something in-world. The example above of a travelogue sounds like it could be immersive, for example. Anything else feels like a frustrated fan fic writer just wanked his pretentiousness all over the page.

I believe this is how Talislanta is structured, like a travelogue. I always meant to try that game out one day.

I generally do not include setting info, or examples of play, "game fiction"; however, they very well could be considered such. My first thought of game fiction are the D&D novels, which I read the first few pages of one and it was terrible. I have also seen paragraphs of nonsense included in games, which often highlights poor writing skills, a bad omen for the rules in general being clearly conveyed. Game designers should focus on technical writing skills before creative writing skills.

Good game fiction is great, bad game fiction is excruciating.  I'd like them to be kept segregated from actual rules text and content so that if they're terrible, I can disregard them, unless you're really sure of how good it is.

For example, Rache Bartmoss' Guide to the Net is one of the best game supplements I've ever read.  It's basically an in-setting travelogue by a mentally ill paranoiac netrunner, and it's hilarious.  I wouldn't trade it for the world.  On the other hand, I've got a shelf full of WW clanbooks/tradbooks/whatever that I've never gotten all the way through and a I scan for specific subjects because they're written boringly.  (Oddly, I find the Revised-era books worse for this kind of thing -- there's a kind of wide-eyed gonzo fun to the earlier editions that I adore.)  In the same way, I used to thrill to Shadowrun chatter when it was done in the earlier editions, but either I've gotten too old for it or the quality has gone downhill, because I haven't been able to stand it since 4e.

By that token, the opening fiction of, say, the Unknown Armies books is usually top-notch, but several games have fiction that I can do without.  

With that said, I'm a sucker for in-setting props and diaries and articles and the like, especially if done well.  Call of Cthulhu and it's descendants are great for this; The Dracula Dossier's EDOM Papers and Dracula UNREDACTED are pretty incredible.

Quote from: Simlasa;901207Oh! Where did they own up to that? Not that I'm actually surprised, just curious.

One of Baughs blog posts on d20m GW way back around 2003. And one of the prime reasons I consider him and the others hacks. It went something like "Oh we didnt write the rules for that. The players will do it for us." guess they were too busy padding the books with prose or solemnly informing us how mountains are formed. And so on. ad nausium. :mad:

Just got my hands on a friend's Age of Sigmar rulebook the other day.  He has basically stopped playing until the next edition comes out, because it's really that bad.  I have no interest in playing, I just wanted to read.

Not only is the 'fiction' in this game eating up the majority of this book, but it's bad fiction.  Granted, Warhammer fiction was never particularly amazing, either.  I was listening to a podcast about how Archaeon lost by a kick in the balls.  Literally.

EDIT:  I've always loved this hobby, too.  I like painting models and customizing them.  I like the strategic elements of it.  It's a real blast to me.  But despite that, if there's one thing I fucking loathe about any Warhammer core book?  It's when they use photos of models instead of art.  And I love the art when they use it, I collect it in folders on my computer.

All signs point to GW not having the slightest idea of just what they're doing right now, and possibly having succeeded all these years despite themselves.

I admit that I prefer images over text...

Quote from: Christopher Brady;901668I admit that I prefer images over text...

It wouldn't surprise me to someday soon see a rulebook that's presented primarily as video demonstration... some charismatic person guiding you along, with images and music. Easily searchable, though there'd still be a rulebook for backup... but the video would be the way most people would learn.

Quote from: Simlasa;901673It wouldn't surprise me to someday soon see a rulebook that's presented primarily as video demonstration... some charismatic person guiding you along, with images and music. Easily searchable, though there'd still be a rulebook for backup... but the video would be the way most people would learn.

Step back to 1993 and fire up your VCR for the instructions for Dragonstrike.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8LBpMuSTrQ

Quote from: Simlasa;901673It wouldn't surprise me to someday soon see a rulebook that's presented primarily as video demonstration... some charismatic person guiding you along, with images and music. Easily searchable, though there'd still be a rulebook for backup... but the video would be the way most people would learn.

Honestly, there's a lot of people on Youtube that teach games this way.  Their videos are extremely popular.

Quote from: Crüesader;901688Honestly, there's a lot of people on Youtube that teach games this way.  Their videos are extremely popular.

I've seen it for wargames... though they're not presenting a systematic walkthrough of ALL the rules. Mostly just detailed demos.

Quote from: Simlasa;901718I've seen it for wargames... though they're not presenting a systematic walkthrough of ALL the rules. Mostly just detailed demos.

Yeah, but companies like GW tend to send in the nasty letters/emails if you start discussing what's in a Codex in detail (because then people might not be *gasp* spending money on GW merch!).  Even if you do so much as show the points values for individual units (solo units like an Emperor's Champion get a 'pass').  In some forums, that's an instant 'no-no' and moderators will edit out your post.  Even when people are helping flesh out army lists, they post the total points for the squad- and if the math is off, people tend to say "Hey, you might want to check that total, look at page 55."

[video=youtube;_zSxQnZ3TM8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zSxQnZ3TM8[/youtube]

Quote from: Crüesader;901725Yeah, but companies like GW tend to send in the nasty letters/emails if you start discussing what's in a Codex in detail (because then people might not be *gasp* spending money on GW merch!).

The better ones I've seen have been from the historical side... for Osprey Rules and Too Fat Lardies. A lot of the fan vids for GW stuff seem to be just guys pushing product while acting macho to counter the stigma of playing with dolls.