For the first time in a very long while, the people in charge of D&D are not game designers. And they don't think of D&D as an RPG.

#dnd5e #onednd
#dnd #ttrpg #osr

Yes.  They think of D&D as a property, they can leverage for revenue.

Quote from: Jam The MF on December 14, 2022, 08:03:40 PM
Yes.  They think of D&D as a property, they can leverage for revenue.

That is not the worst thing in the world except that if not done carefully they end up alienating their core customers without picking up any of those shiny new customers they so desperately want. Should be interesting to see what happens.

Quote from: squirewaldo on December 14, 2022, 08:14:30 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on December 14, 2022, 08:03:40 PM
Yes.  They think of D&D as a property, they can leverage for revenue.

That is not the worst thing in the world except that if not done carefully they end up alienating their core customers without picking up any of those shiny new customers they so desperately want. Should be interesting to see what happens.

Yes, it will be interesting. I wonder in particular if microtransactions will be popular or rejected by the VTT crowd.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2022, 04:40:36 PM
Yes, it will be interesting. I wonder in particular if microtransactions will be popular or rejected by the VTT crowd.

I think that they will be extremely popular - as they are going after players who would love to pay .99 a pop to add cool cosmetic touches to their PC's virtual mini.

In fact I think that the OneVTT will initially go over so well that several VTT will go under as much of the VTT 5e player base will move to the WotC VTT ecosystem.

But if a player spends 3-4 bucks personalizing his virtual mini, I doubt very much that it will go down well if said PC dies early on in a campaign. I think that the 'much ado about nothing' crowd are vastly underestimating the changes to player and gaming culture within the OneVTT environment this kind of thing will generate, and percolate out into wider WotC 5e play.

Normally edition changes fragment the player base between old and new editions. It will be interesting to see if the 5e player base, and maybe even the hobby at large fragments between those who primarily play on VTT, vs those who primarily play live...

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2022, 04:40:36 PMYes, it will be interesting. I wonder in particular if microtransactions will be popular or rejected by the VTT crowd.

You can already spend money on DriveThruRPG for character art and there is nothing conceptually different between a player spending $5 to unlock a new class and the DM spending $30 to buy Unearthed Arcana to get the rules some new classes. So microtransactions already exist in RPGs, WotC is just trying to move the spending into one location.

The more I think about it, the more this looks like the only way that WotC can undo the damage caused by the OGL. While people may still be able to write other games under the OGL, if everyone is playing on the OneVTT then all those OGL games won't be usable to the majority of players.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on December 15, 2022, 07:23:52 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2022, 04:40:36 PMYes, it will be interesting. I wonder in particular if microtransactions will be popular or rejected by the VTT crowd.

You can already spend money on DriveThruRPG for character art and there is nothing conceptually different between a player spending $5 to unlock a new class and the DM spending $30 to buy Unearthed Arcana to get the rules some new classes. So microtransactions already exist in RPGs, WotC is just trying to move the spending into one location.

The more I think about it, the more this looks like the only way that WotC can undo the damage caused by the OGL. While people may still be able to write other games under the OGL, if everyone is playing on the OneVTT then all those OGL games won't be usable to the majority of players.

Depends on the quality of the VTT. There are way better ones than Roll20 these days (ex. Foundry blows it out of the water in pretty much every category).

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2022, 04:40:36 PM
Yes, it will be interesting. I wonder in particular if microtransactions will be popular or rejected by the VTT crowd.

They will love it (initially). The people that enjoy playing Mobile games have established this already. It's oblivious to the non-Mobile gaming crowd, which is likely 99% of this forum. As a fairly hardcore gamer, that plays popular stuff, the money that mobile gaming with its predatory microstransactions *DWARFS* the money generated by "regular" AAA and AA titles on sales alone. Which is why most AA and AAA games now have microtransactions in them.

D&D is now following suit.

The thing I contend is that there is ZERO chance that WotC can develop tools robust enough to satisfy long-term D&D players. This is an issue with videogames as it is - and WotC does not have the talent, nor the resources to do it.

Skyrim as an example, is STILL one of the most popular games ever. GTA5 as well. Creating tools that will satisfy TTRPG mechanics longterm is astoundingly complex. Of course they might be able to pull it off in short-term iterative bursts... but the talent/funding issue is a huge problem.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2022, 04:40:36 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on December 14, 2022, 08:14:30 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on December 14, 2022, 08:03:40 PM
Yes.  They think of D&D as a property, they can leverage for revenue.

That is not the worst thing in the world except that if not done carefully they end up alienating their core customers without picking up any of those shiny new customers they so desperately want. Should be interesting to see what happens.

Yes, it will be interesting. I wonder in particular if microtransactions will be popular or rejected by the VTT crowd.

I'm not really clear on what this micro-transactions would be. Purchase of individual customized "miniatures"?

I will restate a comment I heard from a fairly left-leaning bunch: 'I'm not giving WotC another dime.'

I'm sure this might be popular with a very small handful of whales, the same kind of people who prop up mobile games. But I think the vast majority of RPG fans are going to look at this and laugh hysterically.

Quote from: tenbones on December 16, 2022, 07:15:08 AM
The thing I contend is that there is ZERO chance that WotC can develop tools robust enough to satisfy long-term D&D players. This is an issue with videogames as it is - and WotC does not have the talent, nor the resources to do it.

The WotC executive looks at the ragged but tough band of long-term D&D players. Then he look towards the opposite horizon. His gaze wanders for a while on the assembled horde of general population who have credit cards. A smirk forms on his face, and he shouts in his raspy whiskey-and-cigar voice, "Let loose the microtransactions!"

It's all about the churn.

Quote from: Zaxxon on December 16, 2022, 08:15:05 AMI'm not really clear on what this micro-transactions would be. Purchase of individual customized "miniatures"?

Since they haven't announced anything concrete we can only speculate. But, as I pointed out earlier, many of the cosmetic items for gamers are already available. You can pay for character sketches (something I've seen since the 1980s) for your virtual character sheet. As for miniatures, take a look a HeroForge.com. This is a company that builds custom miniatures (for 3d printing) based on choosing from a variety of poses, clothing, and weapon options. If this was centralized within the VTT app, the software could create a new miniature design automatically based on the equipment that is on the character sheet. The way these typically work is that the base game includes a small selection of generic items but you can purchase more exotic or cool looking items for money.

In addition to cosmetic, there is always the option for Hasbro to charge a player a small fee for each character class or 'species" that the character wants to play. Either with cash or some sort of virtual currency. And if you want to go further, allowing the purchase of in-game items (potions for instance) is also an option. Remember that the VTT is controlling the amount of gold that a player can earn so this gold can be treated as a virtual currency within the app. Take a look at the documents for WotC Adventurer's League organized play to see what it might look like:

https://media.wizards.com/2021/dnd/downloads/ddal_fr_dmsguidev11_0.pdf

As Chris24601 pointed out though, this is entirely dependent on whether or not Hasbro is willing to invest in creating (or buying) the software needed for such integration.

Quote from: Zaxxon on December 16, 2022, 08:15:05 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2022, 04:40:36 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on December 14, 2022, 08:14:30 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on December 14, 2022, 08:03:40 PM
Yes.  They think of D&D as a property, they can leverage for revenue.

That is not the worst thing in the world except that if not done carefully they end up alienating their core customers without picking up any of those shiny new customers they so desperately want. Should be interesting to see what happens.

Yes, it will be interesting. I wonder in particular if microtransactions will be popular or rejected by the VTT crowd.

I'm not really clear on what this micro-transactions would be. Purchase of individual customized "miniatures"?

I was thinking more like magic swords and spells, new/rare abilities/skills/feats, etc. Stuff that would make your character bullet proof.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2022, 04:40:36 PM
Yes, it will be interesting. I wonder in particular if microtransactions will be popular or rejected by the VTT crowd.

The VTT players will fork out for it if the price is right. I think they have been using Drive-Thru and Beyond as a testbed for this whole upcomming mess. Watching how sales go and gauging just how much they can milk the suckers for.

If they can focus it all into apps then they can completely fuck over everyone. I doubt they can pull that off. But expect apps to be a thing somewhere. Habro alreasy knows these are goos sucker scams from their board game experiments. Buy a game that cant be played without an app. Discontinur the app so the games a brick. Then a few years later sell the game again.

Quote from: squirewaldo on December 16, 2022, 10:47:16 AM

Quote from: Zaxxon on December 16, 2022, 08:15:05 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 15, 2022, 04:40:36 PM

Quote from: squirewaldo on December 14, 2022, 08:14:30 PM

Quote from: Jam The MF on December 14, 2022, 08:03:40 PM
Yes.  They think of D&D as a property, they can leverage for revenue.

That is not the worst thing in the world except that if not done carefully they end up alienating their core customers without picking up any of those shiny new customers they so desperately want. Should be interesting to see what happens.

Yes, it will be interesting. I wonder in particular if microtransactions will be popular or rejected by the VTT crowd.

I'm not really clear on what this micro-transactions would be. Purchase of individual customized "miniatures"?

I was thinking more like magic swords and spells, new/rare abilities/skills/feats, etc. Stuff that would make your character bullet proof.

I half want them to make D&D pay-to-win. I wonder how many parties will fall apart because the rich kid has an overpowered paladin, and everyone else waits in the background for him to win every encounter.

Of course, his longsword +5 at first level will only be overpowered for a year. Then he needs to "invest" in a mace +8.