SCOTUS (supreme court of the united states) is going to rule on a landmark case regarding online gambling by July.
https://www.legalsportsreport.com/18662/decision-in-nj-sports-betting-case/
The case is about gambling on "games of skill" which are technically legal-ish (aka DraftKings) in some parts of the USA.
Boardgames and war games are certainly games of skill, as are many video games. Mark Cuban of Shark Tank is involved in an e-sports betting startup, aka gambling on first person shooters could become a thing.
If this happens...as we swim every deeper into our cyperpunk dystopia...do you feel there could be any market for gambling on D&D games?
AKA, if there are already people watching others play D&D, I wonder how long until someone starts tossing down a bet?
"$50 on a TPK within 2 hours."
"I'm pretty sure that Harold is a ringer for the Mob, since he always plays Kender...."
Competitive rpg play seems, if not well and truly dead, then at least virtually non-existent online. Watching people play D&D has exploded, obviously, but the types of games being run seem to be about the worst possible thing on earth to bet on.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1027307"$50 on a TPK within 2 hours."
A really good DM could get that TPK in less than 10 minutes! ;)
I think it would be so easy to rig the results of an RPG, that people would be wary of placing bets on outcomes. There is a competitive RPG called Conflict (full disclosure I was involved in some of the early flavor text writing for it) and I could see a system like that being utilized here.
What if instead of a RPG, it was a LARP?
Quote from: jeff37923;1027340What if instead of a RPG, it was a LARP?
I haven't done LARP. Are the rules as reliable as a sport when it comes to stuff like combat?
According to a few folk on other fora there are a few countries or provinces within them that have laws banning RPGs from for example Colleges as it is deemed to be gambling.
Quote from: finarvyn;1027327A really good DM could get that TPK in less than 10 minutes! ;)
While having the party fight house cats. :D
Successfully combine Overwatch with Hado, and you better believe there will be betting on it.
You could do it with TFT or GURPS arena combats, since those are defined nearly as well as solid wargames and require little if any GM ruling on anything.
For adventure situations, the outcome depends a lot on the GM's rulings and/or what players decide to do, etc. I could see someone doing friendly bets on weird things, or some mean arcane con involving the collusion of the GM and contriving to fool someone into thinking it's a spur-of-the-moment bet.
I don't think so. You'd either need to use a computer, or a system that is completely controlled by rules and rolls with ZERO room for GM interpretation. Otherwise I don't think it would work; and of course if you do the above, it's not really an RPG anymore.
Now, wargaming, on the other hand, might just work.
How will the gambling world develop?
I don't think anyone who ever watched a full session of DnD would ever want to gamble money on it.
That said, if you are going to bet, bet on the DM! ;D
Betting pools on how long the first level magic user lasts.
Board games, war games, and video games definitely require skill, so it makes sense. But gambling on D&D games?! That's a whole new level. I mean, people already love watching others play D&D, so why not throw down a bet and make it even more exciting? If this becomes a reality, I could see it being a thing on some of the best low minimum deposit casinos (https://montycasinos.com/low-deposit/) out there. Imagine rolling a critical hit and winning some sweet cash on the side. It's a unique concept, but who knows? It could catch on. Either way, it'll be interesting to see how the SCOTUS ruling goes and how it impacts the gambling world. In the meantime, I'm gonna go practice my D&D skills just in case.
No one can predict the future of the gambling industry or the popularity of gambling on specific games or activities. However, it's important to note that the legality of gambling on games of skill, including e-sports and tabletop games like Dungeons & Dragons, can vary depending on your location and other factors.
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Quote from: jenkinslord on April 03, 2023, 05:00:28 AM
Board games, war games, and video games definitely require skill, so it makes sense. But gambling on D&D games?! That's a whole new level. I mean, people already love watching others play D&D, so why not throw down a bet and make it even more exciting? If this becomes a reality, I could see it being a thing on some of the best low minimum deposit casinos (https://montycasinos.com/low-deposit/) out there. Imagine rolling a critical hit and winning some sweet cash on the side. It's a unique concept, but who knows? It could catch on.
I think people here don't remember the era of D&D tournaments in the 1970s and 1980s. You can find tournament scoring rules in a bunch of the early modules, which were used at conventions to see which players advanced to the second round.
I never liked that side of things, but it was influential for a time.
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No, there isn't any significant market for this.
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Even Gary Gyax and TSR at it's height couldn't get competitive RPGs off the ground. literally made both AD&D and second speaking out of both sides of it's mouth trying to chase that concept and it still flopped.
You wouldn't suspect it'd be that hard, as the overwhelming majority of PF2 and 5E videos I've seen are some white room theory crafting about best spell selection or some nonsense like that. And that a good sector of the D&D fanbase is purely devoted to the combat/stat side of things.
What I can see happening is this applying for Wargames.
Turing play into work...no thanks.
Quote from: Skarg on March 03, 2018, 07:38:15 PM
You could do it with TFT or GURPS arena combats, since those are defined nearly as well as solid wargames and require little if any GM ruling on anything.
For adventure situations, the outcome depends a lot on the GM's rulings and/or what players decide to do, etc. I could see someone doing friendly bets on weird things, or some mean arcane con involving the collusion of the GM and contriving to fool someone into thinking it's a spur-of-the-moment bet.
I agree: TFT is perfect. In fact, in my TFT games, new characters are often forced to start as slaves who earn their freedom through gladiatorial combat, or die in the process. They fight in a hex map I designed as an arena where NPCs gather and bet on the outcomes. Perfect setting for spectators of such a game online to also bet IRL on the outcomes.
Quote from: Krimson on February 28, 2018, 06:27:24 PM
Quote from: finarvyn;1027327A really good DM could get that TPK in less than 10 minutes! ;)
While having the party fight house cats. :D
No, a pack of Chihuahuas!!!
Funny story, Gygax was approached about D&D appearing in E.T., but wasn't given much of the script to look at. Based on the scene having money on the table while they were playing, Gygax was worried that it would look like it was a gambling game, and declined.
I have trouble picturing many people gambling on something as loosey-goosey as D&D. It would be really easy to rig it and, with money now on the line, people would. I don't see the appeal either but I didn't get tournament D&D back in the day and I don't get watching other people play now.
Quote from: jhkim on April 06, 2023, 01:10:22 PM
Quote from: jenkinslord on April 03, 2023, 05:00:28 AM
Board games, war games, and video games definitely require skill, so it makes sense. But gambling on D&D games?! That's a whole new level. I mean, people already love watching others play D&D, so why not throw down a bet and make it even more exciting? If this becomes a reality, I could see it being a thing on some of the best low minimum deposit casinos (https://montycasinos.com/low-deposit/) out there. Imagine rolling a critical hit and winning some sweet cash on the side. It's a unique concept, but who knows? It could catch on.
I think people here don't remember the era of D&D tournaments in the 1970s and 1980s. You can find tournament scoring rules in a bunch of the early modules, which were used at conventions to see which players advanced to the second round.
I never liked that side of things, but it was influential for a time.
Expeditious Retreat Press did a few tournament modules (https://composedreamgames.com/marketplace/index.php?route=product/search&tag=tournament), usually for GenCon. Stonesky Delve (2010), Obsidian Sands of Syncrates (2011), I feel like there's another one that I can't identify. Scorings based on how much area's explored in Stonesky with a penalty for lost PCs.
One of the nice things about these is they have pre-made PCs in them so you can just grab them and run. I used the pre-gens from G1 when I ran XRP's "G4" The Aerie of the Cloud Giant Strategos (https://composedreamgames.com/marketplace/Aerie-of-the-Cloud-Giant-Strategos).
I'd be interested to know if anyone here played in any tournament games with scoring!
Quote from: Thondor on December 30, 2023, 09:08:44 PM
I'd be interested to know if anyone here played in any tournament games with scoring!
I did but it was a really long time ago. Paizo did something sort of like this with the seasonal special scenarios. They were mainly for conventions but any venue could do it if you had at least 4 tables running at once. I ran one of the tables for Race for the Runecarved Key. There was a scoring system and the winning team got a replica of the key. I think they got a special chronicle sheet too. It has been several years since then.
The X-Files had an episode where the "Lone Gunmen" were engaged in a "high stakes game of D&D" in which they were gambling on what looked to be the "to hit roll". Though it didn't actually say or show, it was the mid 1990's so the edition was probably AD&D 2nd Edition.
Quote from: Digitalelf on December 31, 2023, 12:56:28 AM
The X-Files had an episode where the "Lone Gunmen" were engaged in a "high stakes game of D&D" in which they were gambling on what looked to be the "to hit roll". Though it didn't actually say or show, it was the mid 1990's so the edition was probably AD&D 2nd Edition.
That didn't make any sense to me even at the time. I remember when the character said that and I blurted out "oh fuck off". It came across as something written by a writer who has heard of D&D but has no idea what it actually is.
Quote from: yosemitemike on December 31, 2023, 01:02:21 AMThat didn't make any sense to me even at the time. I remember when the character said that and I blurted out "oh fuck off". It came across as something written by a writer who has heard of D&D but has no idea what it actually is.
LOL... I didn't say it made since! Just that it existed. ;D
But yeah, the writers probably wanted those three characters to be a part of "geek culture" but had no idea what that actually looked like in the real world.
If it was a well defined scenario and ruleset, I could see how gambling might make sense. But it would need to be certain snippets. Honestly, I think the only D&D game that would make sense in this context would be, "gamble on the result of this given fight" with the stuff made public... and the version number equal to 4, because that is moooostly a wargame, or at least, close enough that the rules are fully defined.
Speaking of, I could totally see betting on like, Warhammer.
I'll join the others saying that it wouldn't work because it would be entirely too easy to fix. It would be like betting on a WWF match
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The only way it would work is some kind of fantasy football scenario where you but on how many hits or damage specific PCs take and create your team out of a number of PCs from different online games. But the players would have to play consistently each week for it to make any sense and it still seems like it would be such a small number of folks interested as to be pointless.
Quote from: pawsplay on December 29, 2023, 06:48:41 PM
Funny story, Gygax was approached about D&D appearing in E.T., but wasn't given much of the script to look at. Based on the scene having money on the table while they were playing, Gygax was worried that it would look like it was a gambling game, and declined.
I'm not sure I get it because they had D&D in the opening scene of E.T.
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I don't see this ever really taking off, but if I were to gamble on rpgs it would be dice-centric that the players or GM couldn't skew. I bet they roll a fumble this round, or a crit this encounter, etc.
Quote from: Spinachcat on February 28, 2018, 02:03:04 AM
SCOTUS (supreme court of the united states) is going to rule on a landmark case regarding online gambling by July.
https://www.legalsportsreport.com/18662/decision-in-nj-sports-betting-case/ (https://www.legalsportsreport.com/18662/decision-in-nj-sports-betting-case/)
The case is about gambling on "games of skill" which are technically legal-ish (aka DraftKings) in some parts of the USA.
Boardgames and war games are certainly games of skill, as are many video games. Mark Cuban of Shark Tank is involved in an e-sports betting startup, aka gambling on first person shooters could become a thing.
If this happens...as we swim every deeper into our cyperpunk dystopia...do you feel there could be any market for gambling on D&D games?
AKA, if there are already people watching others play D&D, I wonder how long until someone starts tossing down a bet?
Long ago, I chose RPGs over poker... and that decision was made easier when playing online was deemed illegal by the federal government. So, I'm actually excited by the prospect of that bullshit being overturned just for the Texas Hold'em alone! Sure, there's luck involved... but poker is a skill game, same goes with RPGs.
Quote from: jmarso on April 01, 2023, 03:25:19 AMI don't think anyone who ever watched a full session of DnD would ever want to gamble money on it.
That said, if you are going to bet, bet on the DM! ;D
Thanks for the information!
Not gonna happen.
Having run many D&D tourneys over the decades, I could see (a) how to do a gambling D&D event right and (b) how easily things could be skewed/biased/cheated.
As others pointed out, it would be like betting on WWF. But anyone who has researched the NFL or NBA or MLB cheating scandals knows that "sports" has become "sports entertainment", aka rigging is commonplace. See the many YouTube videos about various questionable calls and plays for more info.
So...since people happily bet on the regularly rigged NFL, that same mindset would transfer to RPG gambling as well.
However, RPGs take too long and for me, boring as shit to watch. But, I could see gambling on 40k matches or boardgame tourneys, especially if well edited.
Hmm...things to consider.
Games like Warhammer 40K or other board game tournaments? That makes way more sense for betting. They're structured, with clear rules and outcomes, so it's easier to keep things fair. If gambling on skill-based games becomes a thing, those would probably be way more popular.
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Quote from: blackstone on September 23, 2024, 10:09:58 AMNot gonna happen.
..and the reason why is this:
RPGs are a form of zero-sum game. There is no one "winner" or "loser". The outcome of a campaign is determined successful in unquantifiable terms that only the individual players can define in regards to their characters goals. Each goal is different for the most part, which does lead to an overall successful campaign.
That's at least how I understand it.
The only way around this undefinable structure is to assign "points" and go to a tournament system. Points are allocated when certain goals have been achieved in regards to the adventure or campaign (i.e. find the map to the haunted keep: 10 points, defeat the gnoll outpost: 7 points, etc.). Individual goals are then kept generic as possible, by limiting them to class-based goals (clerics: 1 point per person healed, Thieves: 1 point per trap detected. etc...)
you can even do deductions (kill the mad hermit: -10 points)
The group with the most points wins.
Now, could you have people bet on such a thing? I don't know. I highly doubt it. You'd have to run some expeditionary ones first to drum up some interest. Even then, RPGs are still by society's standards, not popular.
Plus, you need to have an understanding about gambling. It's been said that "Vegas wasn't built on winners". You'd have to show the "House" controlling the betting is getting their cut and it's profitable. You can avoid this route by having sponsorships. PC/console gaming does this and it HUGE in Asia. You could do the same thing here. Unfortunately, WoTC/Hasbro would dominate and practically every tourney would be a WoTC product. That IMO would get boring, but what do I know.
Quote from: OebDowns on December 12, 2024, 05:54:23 AMGames like Warhammer 40K or other board game tournaments? That makes way more sense for betting. They're structured, with clear rules and outcomes, so it's easier to keep things fair. If gambling on skill-based games becomes a thing, those would probably be way more popular.
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Quote from: jhkim on April 06, 2023, 01:10:22 PMQuote from: jenkinslord on April 03, 2023, 05:00:28 AMBoard games, war games, and video games definitely require skill, so it makes sense. But gambling on D&D games?! That's a whole new level. I mean, people already love watching others play D&D, so why not throw down a bet and make it even more exciting? If this becomes a reality, I could see it being a thing on some of the best low minimum deposit casinos (https://montycasinos.com/low-deposit/) out there. Imagine rolling a critical hit and winning some sweet cash on the side. It's a unique concept, but who knows? It could catch on.
I think people here don't remember the era of D&D tournaments in the 1970s and 1980s. You can find tournament scoring rules in a bunch of the early modules, which were used at conventions to see which players advanced to the second round.
I never liked that side of things, but it was influential for a time.
That is not gambling and you know it.