Quote from: James J SkachWhy?

Just to make it clear - why was the 4th Edition announcement going to "make a lot of people angry, really angry, no matter what?"

Because there are a lot of people that don't like new systems when they already have one that works great for them. Has there ever been an announcement of a new edition for D&D that didn't piss off a bunch of people?

Fear of Change and Cynicism sound right to me, but also ironic in an age where entertainment is dominated by the often annual franchise. I think that Hasbro is betting that their newer younger players not only mind periodic change for it's own sake, but might actually be fine with it since it happens far less often than the other media out there.

Quote from: James McMurrayBecause there are a lot of people that don't like new systems when they already have one that works great for them. Has there ever been an announcement of a new edition for D&D that didn't piss off a bunch of people?

Ya know - it's been a long time.  But I seem to remember the announcement of 2nd Edition was more indifference than anger.  Then again, we didn't have the intrawebs to facilitate this level of angst...

Don't get me wrong, there were people who didn't want 2nd Edition and people who, after purchase, decided not to play it and stick with AD&D.  But in my own admittedly limited experience (in that I was in a regular group and didn't hang out with a lot of other gamers) it was met with more of a "Meh.  I have these books; I'll just play with them."

But I could be misremembering....

Quote from: James McMurrayBecause there are a lot of people that don't like new systems when they already have one that works great for them. Has there ever been an announcement of a new edition for D&D that didn't piss off a bunch of people?

The weird thing is that I've been excited, each and every time. As have the people I've gamed with. The prevailing attitude was always 'Cool! New toys to play with!'

I wasn't aware there was so much edition angst out there until I got online, just prior to 3E's release. It was certainly an eye opener. I often wonder how much the near instanteaneous (yet undeniably limited) nature of messageboard communication contributes to the general tenor of these discussions.

Quote from: James J SkachDon't get me wrong, there were people who didn't want 2nd Edition and people who, after purchase, decided not to play it and stick with AD&D.  But in my own admittedly limited experience (in that I was in a regular group and didn't hang out with a lot of other gamers) it was met with more of a "Meh.  I have these books; I'll just play with them."

But I could be misremembering....

This is my recollection also, or nearly.
 I had a friend who had too much cash and went out and bought the books- that was how I found out about 2e. My initial reaction was, "well, what is the fucking point of that? We already have a D&D." I don't have any recollection of anyone being pissed about its existence though- but that data comes from a sample of about 10 gamers, maybe 20 total, most of whom were entering the beer and tits phase of their lives, and had other things to get worked up about besides THACO- so, not much of a sample, really. As for me, I was no different, the discovery of excessive drinking, and the manifestation of my first girl friend (and the resulting regular sex) took me away from RPGs for a good long time after that- although, when I did play it was AD&D 1e. Based upon no evidence whatsoever (never read the books past a quick skim of the artwork while stoned), I assumed that 2e was total flop- years later, I was only mildly surprised to find out that there were people who actually liked and played it, lots of people, apparently. That said, I wasn't online when 3e came out (found out about during a trip to the mall, after all three books came out) and didn't learn about the level of angst said release generated until last year actually when I started playing again.

Honestly, I probably wait and see what other gamers in my area do.  I really don't care one way or the other about what Noonan said.  The reactions to his statements are interesthing though.  

I was pissed at 3.5 because we were keeping most of the basic system but fixing all the mistakes we made in 3.0.  However, it sounds like 4e will be a different game (whatever that will mean) but I am not an early adapter in any case.

Quote from: CabHave you listene to the presentation they gave or read what they've written? Lots of info about 'this is how we've been playing it, we think you'll be excited'.

Suddenly, paying attention to what people have said as if that might be an indication of what they mean seems to be controversial.

You said it man.  I'm getting more than a little sick of it.  God forbid we should use our brains and actually read and understand what the fuck the people who are designing the fucking game have said about the game.  I mean what, am I supposed to just assume they're all lying to me?

Quote from: DrewThe weird thing is that I've been excited, each and every time. As have the people I've gamed with. The prevailing attitude was always 'Cool! New toys to play with!'

I wasn't aware there was so much edition angst out there until I got online, just prior to 3E's release. It was certainly an eye opener. I often wonder how much the near instanteaneous (yet undeniably limited) nature of messageboard communication contributes to the general tenor of these discussions.

For what it's worth, I'm always excited that a new edition is coming up too. I'm also the guy who broke the news to most of my friends. Many do not frequent message boards at all. One GM I know (who reluctantly switched to third edition four years ago) was devastated.

Just this sunday, I broke (enthusiastically) the news to three guys while on our way to a game. One of them was apprehensive, the two others were livid. It's not like they weren't prepared. I had warned them a year ago that it was a matter of time but they were in denial.

I don't think it has anything to do with message boards. D&D has always been a fairly involved game that relies on brand fidelity. It's what makes it a great success long term but it does lead to a few bumps on the road when new editions come out.

Quote from: CabHave you listene to the presentation they gave or read what they've written? Lots of info about 'this is how we've been playing it, we think you'll be excited'.

I think you're seeing what you want to see.

They're designing the game, you (we) aren't. Someone has to make the final call and that's the designers. Were you expecting 4th edition to be entirely designed and playtested by its customer base? A sort of giant design-by-committee?

I don't see how "here's how we do it, we think you'll like it" = "we didn't pay attention to you the last 7 years, go fuck your geeky selves"

Quote from: J ArcaneNo, what's condescending is the attitude of "we don't care what the fuck you like or don't like about 4e, we're gonna do whatever the fuck we want, and there's nothing you ignorant peons can do about it."

He's essentially saying "We don't care about you, we don't care what you want, so just shut the fuck up and take it."

This is not a healthy attitude to take towards your customers.

I don't care what you don't like about 4e.  I'm sure there are oodles of others who don't care as well.  You don't want a 4e.  You've been ranting and fuming about it since it was announced.  Nothing that WOTC might say will appease you, likely it would simply further incite your irrational fanboy rage, so really, why waste any breath trying to do so?  You are not a unique and special little snowflake.

Amen, brother. Amen.

This thread didn't even need content, the title says it all.

Sometimes I wish the vast majority of people who play RPGs didn't.

People who said Wizards lost a sale:
Are you really going to not buy any 4e just because of this designer?

Really? No matter the quality or play value?

Quote from: TrevelyanWhat is it that drives so many alleged fans of a hobby/game to assume the worst?

Experience

Quote from: Thanatos02People who said Wizards lost a sale:
Are you really going to not buy any 4e just because of this designer?

Really? No matter the quality or play value?

Because of the designer?  No.  Because of his paymasters?  Sure.